Incline Questions for the Codex interview with Feargus and MCA.

[Roguey]

So why does he like Fallout, but not BG2?

A lot of the problems I had with BG2 had more to do with specific design choices than with the overall style of the game. Avoiding (or ignoring) the problems I had with it while still having a similar style of game is pretty easy, IMO. Taking the specific things I listed a long time ago:

* CNPCs - Many of their introductions didn't sit well with me and I felt that there were too many who didn't have an equal amount of development given to them. While it was great that so many of them had a ton of quest content, I would have preferred a smaller list of companions with more attention to each one. This is what we said we were going to do at the start of the Kickstarter and it's what we're still planning to do.

* Being required to find/save Imoen - I didn't like it then and I still don't. I wouldn't make the player rescue an NPC with whom he or she may or may not have a positive relationship. It's a very specific plot point and easy to not do. I understand that a lot of people have no problem with the rescue plot, which is totally fine, but I don't think that particular plot point needs to be repeated in PE.

* Style of dialogue - I prefer naturalistic -- some would say "dry" -- dialogue. BG2's characters are much more expressive. This is a personal thing and I recognize that most players *don't* like the same style of dialogue that I do. What I strictly prefer and what I write and have others write are not the same thing. My characters in F:NV are still on the dry end of the spectrum (e.g. Arcade Gannon, Chief Hanlon, Joshua Graham), but there are plenty of more flamboyant, expressive characters in the game that other writers developed.

* Being flooded with quests in Athkatla - To be honest, I don't think is a controversial opinion! I've seen many other players say the same thing. BG2 has a crazy amount of quests, which is great, but the density in Athkatla was a little too crazy. I think those quests should have been spread out or staggered in some other way. PE is going to have more of an exploration focus than BG2 (though not as much as BG), so I believe that will help spread the content out more.

Even though I had those problems with BG2, my job as a lead designer and project director is not to create content that appeals specifically to my tastes. Obviously I would have a difficult time making a game that I *disliked*, but I have (and continue to) push for elements I feel that players will ultimately enjoy even if I'm not super thrilled about it. That's my job.

 

[Sensuki]

He didn't make Darklands though

IIRC, Roguey has 'reviewed' games that Sawyer worked on.

 

[Sizzle]

* CNPCs - Many of their introductions didn't sit well with me and I felt that there were too many who didn't have an equal amount of development given to them. While it was great that so many of them had a ton of quest content, I would have preferred a smaller list of companions with more attention to each one. This is what we said we were going to do at the start of the Kickstarter and it's what we're still planning to do.

And then they proceeded to make 11 NPCs - some really well implemented and written (Durance), and some plain crap (Maneha) - just so they could have one for every class.

 

[Perkel]

* CNPCs - Many of their introductions didn't sit well with me and I felt that there were too many who didn't have an equal amount of development given to them. While it was great that so many of them had a ton of quest content, I would have preferred a smaller list of companions with more attention to each one. This is what we said we were going to do at the start of the Kickstarter and it's what we're still planning to do.

It is funny considering that aside from durance and grieving mother none of other companions actually felt like they had story and did something in quest. Especially since BG2 characters are mostly grounded in that world where PoE companions are basically free electrons without home. Aerie bitch was in circus as well as BG1 companion. Jansen was shady trader, Viconia was hiding and got caught on streets aside from main party each of those characters had something to do in that world and had some sense to stay a while in PC troupe.

Certainly fit a bit theme but being free electrons meant that almost none of actions of PC mattered to them thus rendered most of those characters null. Only grieving mother had impact on PC as her journey was directly connected to PC and his actions.

* Style of dialogue - I prefer naturalistic -- some would say "dry" -- dialogue. BG2's characters are much more expressive. This is a personal thing and I recognize that most players *don't* like the same style of dialogue that I do. What I strictly prefer and what I write and have others write are not the same thing. My characters in F:NV are still on the dry end of the spectrum (e.g. Arcade Gannon, Chief Hanlon, Joshua Graham), but there are plenty of more flamboyant, expressive characters in the game that other writers developed.

And this is why Fallout 1 is better than Fallout FNV in just pure writing. Hell Arcanum has much better writting than FNV when it comes to dialogs with PC. Unfortunately this cancer runs deep as both him and MCA loves that (being wooden tourist asking for directions)

Point is that PC should have both neutral if you want but also expressive statements to same thing.
This is why i loved to play Fallout 1 as i could be really mean to people instead of being tourist in post apo game

* Being flooded with quests in Athkatla - To be honest, I don't think is a controversial opinion! I've seen many other players say the same thing. BG2 has a crazy amount of quests, which is great, but the density in Athkatla was a little too crazy. I think those quests should have been spread out or staggered in some other way. PE is going to have more of an exploration focus than BG2 (though not as much as BG), so I believe that will help spread the content out more.

Being flooded with Quest in Athkatla is literally one of main reasons why BG2 is great game. Because you have just 20k gold to get and you get like 10 different options to get that gold. Especially since most of those quest naturally started in different ways instead of being pin up on board somewhere. Point is that most of those quest were good but ultimately they were options in getting that 20k gold.

Decline decline everywhere....

 

[Infinitron]

Whut. If anything, Fallout 1 is dryer than FO:NV. It doesn't have a Veronica.

Also lol at BG2 companions being grounded in anything

 

[Space Insect]

Whut. If anything, Fallout 1 is dryer than FO:NV. It doesn't have a Veronica.

Also lol at BG2 companions being grounded in anything

The BG2 companions are grounded in the world. The world is not grounded at all. Everyone always says Forgotten Realms is the kitchen sink setting, so all the characters are like that as well. They fit into the world that way.

 

[Perkel]

Whut. If anything, Fallout 1 is dryer than FO:NV. It doesn't have a Veronica.
Also lol at BG2 companions being grounded in anything

I am talking strictly about PC dialogs and way he speak. In F1 and later especially in F2 you can outright say to someone Fuck you and start a fight and it isn't rare.

In FNV you play as chinese tourist that got hit by a bullet.

Most of BG2 companions sure aren't special but they are grounded in their world. Each have some sort of home, wishes and wants while most of PoE cast are retarded kids looking for something they don't even know themselves.

Take Herdalis for example. I know he is in my troupe for a pussy.
What is motive of Eder ? Hey let's stay together.

And that goes for almost any PoE companion aside from GM.

Sagani ? Nope
Gay Elf ? member of laden but he himself doesn't know anything about PC
Durance ? was walking down the street when i got enlightened by a bitch !
Pellagina ? Dun nuting wrong and now i will throw out everything for PC cause that sure will help my situation

And this is imo why companions in PoE don't really work as they should. They are there because someone though that it would be cool to have X class and GOD MAKE SURE PEOPLE WILL FIND THEM WITHOUT PROBLEM !!

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Hahaha, BG2 fanboys and their blind hate for PoE's NPCs. I think the best comparison is someone who has been eating only fast food for several years, then when he gets a normal, healthy meal he says it's "plain" and "boring".

 

[Perkel]

Hahaha, BG2 fanboys and their blind hate for PoE's NPCs. I think the best comparison is someone who has been eating only fast food for several years, then when he gets a normal, healthy meal he says it's "plain" and "boring".

I like PoE dialogs writting and lore of characters but their setup is simply wrong.
You don't need to look for BG2 just look at Arcanum characters who join you. Magnus is sort of PoE style setup but he joins to uncover what is going on with that company so that creates some bond which can be use as getting him to your party.

edit:

even FNV setup of characters was better. Only veronica was PoE like. Half of those characters don't even want to join you at start.

 

[prodigydancer]

Perkel
Why do you insist on comparing PoE companions to BG2 companions? Lots of the latter were recurring characters that had already met the PC. Plus the PC in BG2 was a well-known hero (less known in Athkatla, but still). Hence it wasn't hard to come up with plausible motivations. If you compare to BG though, it wasn't that much different from PoE. You meet Xzar and Montaron a hundred paces away from Candlekeep. Hey, let's travel together because why not. Well, OK.

 

[Infinitron]

Most of the PoE companions including Eder join you in part because you're a Watcher and they want to make use of your abilities.

 

[Perkel]

Most of the PoE companions including Eder join you in part because you're a Watcher and they want to make use of your abilities.

They would join you even if you would be cannibal. None of them aside GM has any idea what watcher even is in first place. None of them also question PC for being just crazy man talking to trees.

Perkel
Why do you insist on comparing PoE companions to BG2 companions?

Just because. You can compare it to arcanum if you want.

 

[Sizzle]

Most of the PoE companions including Eder join you in part because you're a Watcher and they want to make use of your abilities.

They would join you even if you would be cannibal. None of them aside GM has any idea what watcher even is in first place. None of them also question PC for being just crazy man talking to trees.

Actually, most of them know that you're a Watcher. And the ones that don't - learn it pretty qucikly. Also, most of them (at least the ones you can recruit in the beginning) often comment on you spacing out.

 

[Mustawd]

So why does he like Fallout, but not BG2?

Lol wut?

EDIT: Goddamn it you guys...don't turn this into a PoE thread.

 

[Jaesun]

Every thread on the codex is a PoE thread...

 

[throwaway]

* Being flooded with quests in Athkatla - To be honest, I don't think is a controversial opinion! I've seen many other players say the same thing. BG2 has a crazy amount of quests, which is great, but the density in Athkatla was a little too crazy. I think those quests should have been spread out or staggered in some other way. PE is going to have more of an exploration focus than BG2 (though not as much as BG), so I believe that will help spread the content out more.

In a medium and a subgenre which has conditioned us to maximize content-exposure this is very much a non-issue.
Half of these actually read like design-decision criticisms as opposed to game-criticisms, the HighSparrowOfBalance is codexer at heart

 

[Forest Dweller]

So why does he like Fallout, but not BG2?

 

[Trashos]

What is motive of Eder ? Hey let's stay together.

Eder is the worst example you could possibly give. He is integral to the current state of the setting, and his quest is the best representative of the major theme in the game. He also had plausible motivation to leave his village, with his friend hanging from the tree.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Looks like somebody skipped 90% of dialogue with the companions. Eder is great. His presence is the first introduction you get to the overarching themes in the settings. Plus he has great banter.

The biggest mistake they've made was making you find Aloth first, he's a fucking whiny bitch that one. Should've had someone fun like Hrivas there.

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

I like Aloth.

Btw., sometimes I have the feeling some people walk around checking boxes for "motivation" and things like that, generally sepaking. (Not only in games, but also in TV shows, movies and theatre plays btw.)
I don't think that's a healthy approach. Not that it never matters, but if a character f.e. totally fits into the world I don't think not having a understandable motivation fo doing certain things is a no go. It can actually add to the mystery etc.
Just sayin'.

 

[Perkel]

What is motive of Eder ? Hey let's stay together.

Eder is the worst example you could possibly give. He is integral to the current state of the setting, and his quest is the best representative of the major theme in the game. He also had plausible motivation to leave his village, with his friend hanging from the tree.

Someone has problems with reading comprehension.
Never said his quest line is bad.
So in other words his friend hangs from tree and he goes with first madman talking to tree aka let's go together just because.

 

[Perkel]

Not that it never matters, but if a character f.e. totally fits into the world I don't think not having a understandable motivation fo doing certain things is a no go. It can actually add to the mystery etc.
Just sayin'.

stupid motivation =/= good mystery motivation.

GM has mystery motivation but it isn't stupid.

 

[Trashos]

What is motive of Eder ? Hey let's stay together.

Eder is the worst example you could possibly give. He is integral to the current state of the setting, and his quest is the best representative of the major theme in the game. He also had plausible motivation to leave his village, with his friend hanging from the tree.

Someone has problems with reading comprehension.
Never said his quest line is bad.
So in other words his friend hangs from tree and he goes with first madman talking to tree aka let's go together just because.

Point taken, let's examine Eder's motivation in detail.

1) Eder is motivated to leave the village, because there is tension in his relations with the other villagers, and his life is in danger ("seventeen-and-a-half").
2) In addition, he is looking for Watchers to help him with his brother's past (which is his quest). This motivates him further to come with you
a) because you are a Watcher, and
b) because he wants to go meet Maerwald (the Watcher in Caed Nua) as well. That's where you are heading too.

All the above are mentioned in your dialogue with Eder when you recruit him, although #2 is merely implied (you still don't know the details of his quest, but you will soon find out). Where exactly do you see his lack of motivation then?

 

[Roguey]

And then they proceeded to make 11 NPCs - some really well implemented and written (Durance), and some plain crap (Maneha) - just so they could have one for every class.

The base game shipped with eight. BG2 had 16.

 

[Mustawd]

And then they proceeded to make 11 NPCs - some really well implemented and written (Durance), and some plain crap (Maneha) - just so they could have one for every class.

The base game shipped with eight. BG2 had 16.

Roguey, fix ur damn signature please. Having MCA's quote barely show up makes it look godawful.