Rage... rising...

[Brother None]

True, but I'm not talking about most of the designers, I'm talking about the head designer who's main goal, at least on some level, is to ensure that the product is both marketable and has broad appeal.

That's not the design lead's job at all. That's the job of the producers and - depending on the company - of marketing.

Todd determines how the game will form so that it has the most appeal. He used a lot of market savvy talk in that interview for example, he knows who he's making the game for, and to hell with the old fans if they don't adapt.

No, he's sticking to one design - the one Bethesda chose (and not just him, no company works that way) - because that's his design. This is exactly the same attitude that - say - VDweller has: this is my game, this is my design philosophy, I'm interested in your opinion but not if you disagree with my basic design philosophy. In which case "this game is not for you". Are their motives different? One would assume so, but I'm not sure.

It's certainly different because Bethesda never works with something the design leads created. And that's a problem, but hey - they just throw money at it.

Why wouldn't they? And I think this even proves my point to a degree. Some designers of high intellect aim to satisfy business goals and the largest markets. They work as artistically as they can within this, but obviously it could have been something more.

Why? Because art is always more than business? Michelangelo painted the Sistene Chapel because the Pope was the richest dude in the world and could afford him, no more, no less.

Hell, "art" is a ridiculous nomer. Art is just something we call things that have been made in the past that we now consider art. But when it was made, it tends to simply have been a product. Most things aren't made as art, they are made into art by history.

Egad. The reasonableness of this statement, on the Codex, leaves me flabbergasted. Bravo good sir.

Please don't agree with me. It makes me look bad.

so Todd enjoys linear games with incredibly retarded AI, "get-quest-fast-travel-reach-marker" all-the-same tasks, copy-pasta dungeons, ugly characters, quest-compass and fast travel for morons and a shitty inventory interface?
if yes then that doesn't actually speak of him as of intelligent guy.

It doesn't?

If there's one thing I've always disliked about this place, it's the tendency to simply write off people that disagree with you as stupid. NN has trolled you guys on the topic plenty of times and (on this point) he's right: it's stupid to assume someone is stupid for having non-Codex preferences.

Because liking Fallout more than Oblivion isn't just a matter of intelligence, it's also a matter of taste. Just like being smart doesn't mean you have to listen to Verdi and can't watch football or the NFL. I'm smart (at least the chart says so), but I'd rather watch a defensive end break a quarterback in two than sit in on some boring opera.

Smart people often like dumb things. I sure as heck do. And as Mr. T said, "it takes a smart guy to play dumb". Equally, it takes a smart guy to make really dumb, but well-made products.

Of course, this is where my argument breaks down, because Bethesda doesn't make well-made products. But the intention is there, and it's not born out of stupidity. The execution might be, but the intention isn't. Todd is a smart guy that makes action-RPG-adventures because he thinks that's more fun to play than a turn-based, challenging RPG.

Heck, if there were still people making turn-based, challenging RPGs, I wouldn't disagree with him, not by a long shot. Because dumbass action RPG adventures are fun to play. The shame is only when they're the only thing available to play.

 

[MetalCraze]

I still doubt that Todd likes to play his own games. will an intelligent person enjoy a game that treats him like a dumb idiot? one thing is enjoying dumb things - and totally another - when the game guides you by hand showing stupid marker at where you must go, tells you what you must do - treating you like a dumb kid

Of course, this is where my argument breaks down, because Bethesda doesn't make well-made products. But the intention is there

BN, seriously, are you trolling? in every Todd's/Pete's interview they speak about how they want to make a high-budget C-class trash out of Fallout 3 and ignoring everything related to original fallouts. especially lore.

 

[kingcomrade]

Halo invented Fallout and Eldar Scrolls

 

[kingcomrade]

Oh, can't forget this, you guys should save this and use it in the future

edit-
also this

 

[Brother None]

I still doubt that Todd likes to play his own games. will an intelligent person enjoy a game that treats him like a dumb idiot? one thing is enjoying dumb things - and totally another - when the game guides you by hand showing stupid marker at where you must go, tells you what you must do - treating you like a dumb kid

Is it? I'll admit it's not for everyone and some games do take it too far, like screensaver Dungeon Siege. But if what you're saying is that an intelligent person can't enjoy Oblivion, then you're being an idiot.

BN, seriously, are you trolling? in every Todd's/Pete's interview they speak about how they want to make a high-budget C-class trash out of Fallout 3 and ignoring everything related to original fallouts. especially lore.

I noted separately how part of the problem for Todd & Pete is that they never work with an IP they created themselves, since they never created anything. Instead, they make derivative products of someone else's genius. But that is only a part of the whole, and can be ignored for sake of my argument.

 

[RK47]

Warning: Brother None is spreading 'rational thoughts'.

Is this thing contageous? Cause I'm feeling less hate all the sudden.

 

[MetalCraze]

okay BN, but Todd really doesn't sound like an intelligent person here

Do you have an underlying message in Fallout 3 - apocalyptic movies and books usually do...
Todd: Different people sacrifice different things to survive, and blowing them into bloody-chunks is often hilarious.

if this doesn't tell you about how intelligent Todd is then I don't know what will

 

[Brother None]

okay BN, but Todd really doesn't sound like an intelligent person herel

Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he sounds like an idiot, sometimes he sounds like a smart guy with a lot of bad ideas, sometimes he sounds like an inept but well-intentioned fellow.

Can't say I know him well enough to tell which one he is.

On the other hand, Emil usually sounds pretty smart. And while Todd or Pete might not be geniuses, I'd be hard-pressed to call them stupid.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Most definately aren't stupid. Not with the way they work the game media. Bastards maybe, but not stupid bastards.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Please don't agree with me. It makes me look bad.

I thought you were agreeing with me?

I still doubt that Todd likes to play his own games. will an intelligent person enjoy a game that treats him like a dumb idiot? one thing is enjoying dumb things - and totally another - when the game guides you by hand showing stupid marker at where you must go, tells you what you must do - treating you like a dumb kid

This is why you struggle Skyway. You cannot understand that there are different forms of entertainment. Some people enjoy figuring out what to do next, some people enjoy doing what comes next, not spending time figuring it out, and some people enjoy both/either. Enjoying the second form does not make you unintelligent. In fact most people like both types of activity and seek them out at different times. Sometimes I want to build galaxy spanning empires in a 4X, planning every move, sometimes I want to shoot the shit out of my friends.

Todd: Different people sacrifice different things to survive, and blowing them into bloody-chunks is often hilarious.

The "different people sacrifice different things to survive" actually sounds very intelligent and quite promising, honestly. The blowing them up part is also true. Or why did the original fallouts include a specific trait you could purchase at character creation which did nothing but make people die in horribly gory fashions? Seriously, if you think that sentiment is stupid then you must think whichever original designer put that trait in is also stupid, because it is in the original games purely for the lulz.

 

[Kingston]

Skyway you are trying too hard.

 

[MetalCraze]

NN, you forgot to quote the question to Todd. without it he does look more intelligent