Random thoughts on whatever JRPG you're currently playing?

[Machocruz]

It isn't about SNES vs. Genesis specifically. To me, PS1 was the 'ultimate' JRPG console, I never completed so many as I did on that console. Maybe it was a phase. For others it's PS2. Switch is gaining ground in a lot of people's minds. Consider hardware capabilities; there were RPGs that SNES just couldn't do, like King's Field, Dragon's Dogma, or Vagrant Story. How can you be the ultimate JRPG console and you can't even have Vagrant Story in your catalog??

That does explain a lot Carpincho Pampeano

I mean I knew it happened, but I didn't think it was that rife. I've lost count of the amount of people who have incorrectly claimed that Chrono Trigger invented combo attacks, just coz they read it somewhere

Don't get me started on the lack of historical perspective so many people have, especially those that are strictly console players.

Some people believe Japan invented RPGs in toto lol. GG Mr. Gygax, you're just a hack fraud.

Remember how "revolutionary" Oblivion was, in reviews? Even though it didn't do anything Daggerfall and Morrowind didn't and less than they did.

Bioshock invented audio logs.

Legend of Zelda was the first open world game.

There's the infamous "games were turn-based because of technical limitations" meme that millenials and zoomers heard from a journo or some disingenuous game dev., as if real-time action wasn't around even longer with even more limitations present.

PC games only get credit to the extent that normies have heard of them. "Is this like Diablo?" is the most common comment you'll see for an isometric game of any kind. I read someone refer to JA2 as "Diablo with guns."

Fuck this gay Earth.

 

[Carpincho Pampeano]

I've been playing the new fire emblem musou game since it leaked, game has a lot of strategy and i would argue it's harder than harder that three houses. If a games me me think "Oh i wish i could continue playing but i gotta go do x" it means the game is good, usually one or two games made me feel like that every year, this is the first one this year.

 

[Suicidal]

It isn't about SNES vs. Genesis specifically. To me, PS1 was the 'ultimate' JRPG console, I never completed so many as I did on that console. Maybe it was a phase. For others it's PS2. Switch is gaining ground in a lot of people's minds. Consider hardware capabilities; there were RPGs that SNES just couldn't do, like King's Field, Dragon's Dogma, or Vagrant Story. How can you be the ultimate JRPG console and you can't even have Vagrant Story in your catalog??

That does explain a lot Carpincho Pampeano

I mean I knew it happened, but I didn't think it was that rife. I've lost count of the amount of people who have incorrectly claimed that Chrono Trigger invented combo attacks, just coz they read it somewhere

Don't get me started on the lack of historical perspective so many people have, especially those that are strictly console players.

Some people believe Japan invented RPGs in toto lol. GG Mr. Gygax, you're just a hack fraud.

Remember how "revolutionary" Oblivion was, in reviews? Even though it didn't do anything Daggerfall and Morrowind didn't and less than they did.

Bioshock invented audio logs.

Legend of Zelda was the first open world game.

There's the infamous "games were turn-based because of technical limitations" meme that millenials and zoomers heard from a journo or some disingenuous game dev., as if real-time action wasn't around even longer with even more limitations present.

PC games only get credit to the extent that normies have heard of them. "Is this like Diablo?" is the most common comment you'll see for an isometric game of any kind. I read someone refer to JA2 as "Diablo with guns."

Fuck this gay Earth.

And if a game is third person and involves hitting things with your sword, then it's a Dark Souls rip-off (Sekiro rip-off if it is set in Asia). On several occasions I've seen people call Nioh a Sekiro rip-off with a straight face even though Nioh literally came first.

 

[spekkio]

BROs, finished Tactics Ogre - Let Us Cling Together for Snes.

I've played the PS1 port back in 2004, and found it even better than its successor (FFT). Second playthrough only confirmed this conviction. Before choosing the Snes version, I've tried both "vanilla" PSP remake and the remake with "One Vision" mod. Sadly, I've found the PSP remake totally inferior to the original (bad interface, bad gameplay, unnecessary new systems, etc.). IMO original LUCT (or the PS1 port) is just pure tactics, while the remake went the sad FFT route of being spergish buildporn simulator.

Good:

The founder of the "japtactical" genre, which were made famous by FFT and later killed by Disgaea and its clones. Still much better game than both.
Why this game is IMO "the founder" of the genre? Well, Ogre Battle had different gameplay (teams + real time), same goes for Fire Emblem (separate turns for you and the enemy, "fixed" jobs for units).
In TO, all the crucial components are already here, and work better that in FFT:

• Weight dictates turn order. You can equip more shit, but this will make your unit act later.
• Unit's stats influence the gameplay in multiple ways. The most crucial is probably INT, which increases range of AOE attacks / number of "summon" attacks.
• Groundbreaking "class" system: after reaching certain criteria, you can switch your regular male / female grunt into one of many jobs. Which influences unit's role, stats growth, number & type of spells, preferred equipment, etc.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  But there are no buyable / transferable skills, which is actually a great idea. Build porn made FFT famous, but also led the genre into the wrong direction (Disgaea, TO PSP). The only game that combines concept of "transferable skills" with decent gameplay, is IMO Fell Seal, which most FFT fans shit on, because of "bad writing / art".
  
  
  
  
  
  Yeah, those are the most important aspects of the tactical game...
  
• No redundant bullshit like faith/brave (FFT) or multiple systems and subsystems, bringing nothing interesting to the tactics (TO PSP).
• No equipment spam. You can buy only a couple types of items in shops.
  
  
  
  
  
  Everything else must be taken from the enemies, so it's either a single item, or sth rare. Compare this approach to FFT, where you constantly buy new (+2) shit, etc.
• You can deploy 10 units, instead of whooping 5 (FFT).
• Great concept of magic. You have different types of mages: attackers, healers, status-changers, etc. And all of them can use different types of spells. For example, "attackers" can use either AOE spells, or "summons", which attack all targets in the area couple times. I haven't seen such attacks (you can hit multiple units or kill a single one) in any other game except TO series. And it's a fantastic idea, much better than usual AOE bullshit with 30 seconds long animation.
• Pure tactical goodness. You're fucked almost for the entire game: you have to attack uphill, facing enemy mages and archers. Enemies often have either unique spells or items. Most late mages have "summons", so they can kill your any unit, if you let them (bad positioning).
• *Edit: forgot to mention branching paths. Fuck year, adds replayability.

Bad:

The main criticism aimed at the game is the importance of units' levels. For example, if you're LV17, and enemy is LV19, not only your damage is much lower than his, but your hit chance also. And during encounters, the game matches enemy levels to your strongest unit. So, the safest way of playing is to make sure that all your units have same level. Which can lead to massive amounts of grinding. I acknowledge this problem, but IMO it doesn't break the game, cuz':

• Lower-level attackers get a lot of EXP when hitting (and especially killing) higher-level units.
• IMO you should use (and thus keep on the same level) only as many units as you can use. Which is ~10 to 12. Info about my team at the bottom.
• AFAIK all encounters (even random ones) have level cap. After reaching ~LV30, you will face mostly enemies with lower levels.
• You can easily make a cheat matrix, which would allow you to grind super-fast. I've made one, and it really makes the game much more enjoyable

Ugly:

• Undead are super-irritating. Only one class can use 2 spells that can "banish" them for good. Both these spells can miss + don't work on "KO-ed" undead (they have to be "standing" to be affected).
• Item descriptions / icons are sometimes too vague. So, to learn the type of certain weapon, you have to sort all of them by type. And only then you'll realize, that it's is actually an axe for example.
  
  
  
  
  
• Interface could've been better (example: better info on how equipping an item changes your stats). Still, compared to the PSP Remake, it's a masterpiece.

Verdict:

Bonus: The Team

I went with the following setup:

1) Denam first as Ninja (high DEX), then as Terror Knight (tough mofo), but with a sword and Fudo. So he can either hit an adjacent unit, or brutally rape it from short distance.

2-3) Two clerics for healing: Kim (generic) and Sis Teena (you get her early enough - her INT is kinda low, but she's more durable than "regular" casters). Both use Heal+ and Vitalize, so they can heal multiple units at once and cure statuses. Using a priest(ess) is imo unnecessary if you're quicksave-scumming.

4-6) Three offensive mages: Kurt (generic Wizard turned Lich) with Kaminari & Teleport, Deneb with MagmaGod & Stun (best spell in the game) & Kachua with Fenril & WipeOut.

7) One ninja with Incubus for various uses (killing / putting enemies to sleep / grabbing items).

8) One archer with Warp Boots for one use (assassinations).

9) One valkyrie with Incubus and AOE magic. Great class, with decent offense and defense, both physical and magical.

10) Canopus for obv. reasons. Probably the best non-generic unit in the game (except Deneb / Kachua).

Reserve bench:

11) Presance with Exorcism & Starion for all my undead-banishing needs.

12) Rendal with a Rifle. If an archer can't do the job, use a gunner.

So, I had to "train" about 14 units (two generics were later replaced by Deneb and Kachua) and that's it.

And with my cheats, it was a piece of cake.

Bonus #2: Since the "chapter intros" are borked in the Aeon Genesis translation, people interested in learning what's written there can do it online:

• Chapter 2 Chaotic
• Chapter 3 Chaotic
• Chapter 4

 

[Falksi]

BROs, finished Tactics Ogre - Let Us Cling Together for Snes.

I've played the PS1 port back in 2004, and found it even better than its successor (FFT). Second playthrough only confirmed this conviction. Before choosing the Snes version, I've tried both "vanilla" PSP remake and the remake with "One Vision" mod. Sadly, I've found the PSP remake totally inferior to the original (bad interface, bad gameplay, unnecessary new systems, etc.). IMO original LUCT (or the PS1 port) is just pure tactics, while the remake went the sad FFT route of being spergish buildporn simulator.

Good:

The founder of the "japtactical" genre, which were made famous by FFT and later killed by Disgaea and its clones. Still much better game than both.
Why this game is IMO "the founder" of the genre? Well, Ogre Battle had different gameplay (teams + real time), same goes for Fire Emblem (separate turns for you and the enemy, "fixed" jobs for units).
In TO, all the crucial components are already here, and work better that in FFT:

• Weight dictates turn order. You can equip more shit, but this will make your unit act later.
• Unit's stats influence the gameplay in multiple ways. The most crucial is probably INT, which increases range of AOE attacks / number of "summon" attacks.
• Groundbreaking "class" system: after reaching certain criteria, you can switch your regular male / female grunt into one of many jobs. Which influences unit's role, stats growth, number & type of spells, preferred equipment, etc.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  But there are no buyable / transferable skills, which is actually a great idea. Build porn made FFT famous, but also led the genre into the wrong direction (Disgaea, TO PSP). The only game that combines concept of "transferable skills" with decent gameplay, is IMO Fell Seal, which most FFT fans shit on, because of "bad writing / art".
  
  
  
  
  
  Yeah, those are the most important aspects of the tactical game...
  
• No redundant bullshit like faith/brave (FFT) or multiple systems and subsystems, bringing nothing interesting to the tactics (TO PSP).
• No equipment spam. You can buy only a couple types of items in shops.
  
  
  
  
  
  Everything else must be taken from the enemies, so it's either a single item, or sth rare. Compare this approach to FFT, where you constantly buy new (+2) shit, etc.
• You can deploy 10 units, instead of whooping 5 (FFT).
• Great concept of magic. You have different types of mages: attackers, healers, status-changers, etc. And all of them can use different types of spells. For example, "attackers" can use either AOE spells, or "summons", which attack all targets in the area couple times. I haven't seen such attacks (you can hit multiple units or kill a single one) in any other game except TO series. And it's a fantastic idea, much better than usual AOE bullshit with 30 seconds long animation.
• Pure tactical goodness. You're fucked almost for the entire game: you have to attack uphill, facing enemy mages and archers. Enemies often have either unique spells or items. Most late mages have "summons", so they can kill your any unit, if you let them (bad positioning).

Bad:

The main criticism aimed at the game is the importance of units' levels. For example, if you're LV17, and enemy is LV19, not only your damage is much lower than his, but your hit chance also. And during encounters, the game matches enemy levels to your strongest unit. So, the safest way of playing is to make sure that all your units have same level. Which can lead to massive amounts of grinding. I acknowledge this problem, but IMO it doesn't break the game, cuz':

• Lower-level attackers get a lot of EXP when hitting (and especially killing) higher-level units.
• IMO you should use (and thus keep on the same level) only as many units as you can use. Which is ~10 to 12. Info about my team at the bottom.
• AFAIK all encounters (even random ones) have level cap. After reaching ~LV30, you will face mostly enemies with lower levels.
• You can easily make a cheat matrix, that would allow you to grind super-fast. I've made one, and it really makes the game much more enjoyable

Ugly:

• Undead are super-irritating. Only one class can use 2 spells that can "banish" them for good. Both these spells can miss + don't work on "KO-ed" undead (they have to be "standing" to be affected).
• Item descriptions / icons are sometimes too vague. So, to learn the type of certain weapon, you have to sort all of them by type. And only then you'll realize, that it's is actually an axe for example.
  
  
  
  
  
• Interface could've been better (example: better info on how equipping an item changes your stats). Still, compared to the PSP Remake, it's a masterpiece.

Verdict:

Bonus: The Team

I went with the following setup:

1) Denam first as Ninja (high DEX), then as Terror Knight (tough mofo), but with a sword and Fudo. So he can either hit an adjacent unit, or brutally rape it from short distance.

2-3) Two clerics for healing: Kim (generic) and Sis Teena (you get her early enough - her INT is kinda low, but she's more durable than "regular" casters). Both use Heal+ and Vitalize, so they can heal multiple units at once and cure statuses. Using a priest(ess) is imo unnecessary if you're quicksave-scumming.

4-6) Three offensive mages: Kurt (generic Wizard turned Lich) with Kaminari & Teleport, Deneb with MagmaGod & Stun (best spell in the game) & Kachua with Fenril & WipeOut.

7) One ninja with Incubus for various uses (killing / putting enemies to sleep / grabbing items).

8) One archer with Warp Boots for one use (assassinations).

9) One valkyrie with Incubus and AOE magic. Great class, with decent offense and defense, both physical and magical.

10) Canopus for obv. reasons. Probably the best non-generic unit in the game (except Deneb / Kachua).

Reserve bench:

11) Presance with Exorcism & Starion for all my undead-banishing needs.

12) Rendal with a Rifle. If an archer can't do the job, use a gunner.

So, I had to "train" about 14 units (two generics were later replaced by Deneb and Kachua) and that's it.

And with my cheats, it was a piece of cake.

Bonus #2: Since the "chapter intros" are borked in the Aeon Genesis translation, people interested in learning what's written there can do it online:

• Chapter 2 Chaotic
• Chapter 3 Chaotic
• Chapter 4

I'm looking forward to getting my teeth into this one. Nice write up.

By "Japtactical" though, don't games like Shining Force and Warsong count as "founding" that genre before it? Or are you referring to something more specific?

 

[spekkio]

^
I'm basically referring to a "FFT clone".

Both Shining Force and Langrisser / Warsong are indeed tactical games, and japanese too. But TO was IMO the first game, which implemented all the elements now associated with "japanese tactical games" or SRPGs as japs call them. Jobs, skills, "unit by unit" gameplay, etc.

And as for Langrisser series - Der Langrisser (Snes remake of Langrisser 2) is IMO on par with TO quality-wise. And has even better tactical gameplay and more "branching paths".

So, that's another area where Snes >>> Genesis.

 

[Falksi]

^
I'm basically referring to a "FFT clone".

Both Shining Force and Langrisser / Warsong are indeed tactical games, and japanese too. But TO was IMO the first game, which implemented all the elements now associated with "japanese tactical games" or SRPGs as japs call them. Jobs, skills, "unit by unit" gameplay, etc.

And as for Langrisser series - Der Langrisser (Snes remake of Langrisser 2) is IMO on par with TO quality-wise. And has even better tactical gameplay and more "branching paths".

So, that's another area where Snes >>> Genesis.

Only faggots and retarded normie-casuals play Der Langrisser above other versions. It's literally baby-easy and almost impossible to lose a troop, never mind a character.

If that low level of "challenge" stimulates you, your opinions aren't worth shit to me dude. It's normie/casual level of gaming.

 

[flyingjohn]

If that low level of "challenge" stimulates you, your opinions aren't worth shit to me dude. It's normie/casual level of gaming.

Somebody who rated shining force 2 so highly talks about difficulty?You need a difficulty romhack to even be close to dying in that game.

 

[spekkio]

It's literally baby-easy and almost impossible to lose a troop, never mind a character.

I've played both Der Langrisser (Snes) and Langrisser 1 (Win9x remake) and loved them both. I'm not sure if we played the same game, or if original Langrisser 2 (Genesis) is so much harder than the Snes remake (I've read that it is harder). But I remember a couple of missions in Der Langrisser, where I survived by pure luck HQ tacticooling. The one on the bridge, agains >9000 flyers comes to mind (Mission #8).

And if you screw up with promoting your generals (not enough Cavalry / Phalanx / Angels), you're fucked and have to re-start the game from the scratch.

So, I wouldn't call the game baby-easy. And it's certainly superior to the Genesis version when it comes to content (branching story) & graphics. If the orignial is THAT much harder than the remake, then kudos to people who like it. But you sound like a butthurt Sega fanboy.

p.s.

I was OFC joking with the Snes >>> Genesis thing. I don't fucking care about platforms, esp. long dead ones.

 

[Falksi]

If that low level of "challenge" stimulates you, your opinions aren't worth shit to me dude. It's normie/casual level of gaming.

Somebody who rated shining force 2 so highly talks about difficulty?You need a difficulty romhack to even be close to dying in that game.

Bollocks. Play on hardest difficulty with a none-maximized team (characters like Kiwi) and it's got a decent enough challenge. It's not challenging, but have to at least think.

Der Langrisser is probably the easiest game I've ever played. You literally won't lose 1 unit.

 

[Falksi]

It's literally baby-easy and almost impossible to lose a troop, never mind a character.

I've played both Der Langrisser (Snes) and Langrisser 1 (Win9x remake) and loved them both. I'm not sure if we played the same game, or if original Langrisser 2 (Genesis) is so much harder than the Snes remake (I've read that it is harder). But I remember a couple of missions in Der Langrisser, where I survived by pure luck HQ tacticooling. The one on the bridge, agains >9000 flyers comes to mind (Mission #8).

And if you screw up with promoting your generals (not enough Cavalry / Phalanx / Angels), you're fucked and have to re-start the game from the scratch.

So, I wouldn't call the game baby-easy. And it's certainly superior to the Genesis version when it comes to content (branching story) & graphics. If the orignial is THAT much harder than the remake, then kudos to people who like it. But you sound like a butthurt Sega fanboy.

p.s.

I was OFC joking with the Snes >>> Genesis thing. I don't fucking care about platforms, esp. long dead ones.

Honestly dude, I'd have Der Langrisser as a serious contender for the easiest game I've ever played. I just don't get how anyone who's played more than say 5 RPGs can entertain it.

Both Warsong and Langrisser 2 are superbly graded. You have to be mindful about most things you do.

 

[flyingjohn]

Bollocks. Play on hardest difficulty with a none-maximized team (characters like Kiwi) and it's got a decent enough challenge. It's not challenging, but have to at least think.

It combines the two worst traits found in easy srpgs.
Half the map slowly walks toward you to get isolated and killed while the others just watch.Bonus points for having a lot of easy choke points to fuck with the ai.
And the boss enemies stand still like morons until you come within their attack range.
It doesn't matter how much you buff the AI with difficulty considering this strategy has destroyed many other srpg's and shining force does nothing to nullify it.
Even vixen 357 situations where are you are forced to attack or you loose.

 

[Falksi]

Bollocks. Play on hardest difficulty with a none-maximized team (characters like Kiwi) and it's got a decent enough challenge. It's not challenging, but have to at least think.

It combines the two worst traits found in easy srpgs.
Half the map slowly walks toward you to get isolated and killed while the others just watch.Bonus points for having a lot of easy choke points to fuck with the ai.
And the boss enemies stand still like morons until you come within their attack range.
It doesn't matter how much you buff the AI with difficulty considering this strategy has destroyed many other srpg's and shining force does nothing to nullify it.
Even vixen 357 situations where are you are forced to attack or you loose.

Regardless, you will still lose units. You have to engage the enemy and, unless you have been min-maxing, they'll get killed.

That's never even a remote possibility in Der Langrisser.

The first time you play through Shining Force 2 you have to engage your brain to suss out these things too. In Der Langrisser you play the game straight and it's a total cakewalk.

Go play Langrisser 2 on Genesis and Der Langrisser on SNES and seriously tell me the SNES version has better gameplay with a straight face.

 

[Carpincho Pampeano]

I was wrong, three hopes becomes really repetitve gameplay and story wise, i'm clocking 22hs into the game and i'm still fighting noble rebels. I just deleted the game and i will play Xenoblade DE.

 

[flyingjohn]

Go play Langrisser 2 on Genesis and Der Langrisser on SNES and seriously tell me the SNES version has better gameplay with a straight face.

I won't because i actually prefer the genesis version?

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I have finished Suikoden V.

It's fine. The story started off pretty meh, but as it went on I started getting more into it. It peaked around the middle. Never became super invested in it like I was by the first three Suikoden games. I was also turned off by the generic modern anime character designs, but began warming up to the aesthetic after a while. The music isn't memorable at all, though. Only track I remember is when the dragon knights recited the series' night theme with their flutes, which has a sad ring to it knowing that it would be the last time that theme would be played, ever.

S5's cardinal sin is that everything takes too long. It's a 70 hour long game but it doesn't really begin until the 20 hour mark. The first 20 hours aren't really engaging from a gameplay standpoint or from a story standpoint. The encounter rate is far, far too high. You can't walk 5 feet without being sucked into an encounter. The transition from overworld to random encounter takes too long. Battle animations take too long. There is an input delay that makes navigating menus take way longer than they should. S5's actual story is really only as long as S2, which was a 35 hour long game.

The game also suffers from walkthroughitis. There are several missable characters who are impossible to obtain without prior knowledge or having consulted a walkthrough beforehand. You can't recruit Oboro when you first meet him, but if you don't recruit him before the halfway mark, he bails on you and can never be recruited. Some characters have to be recruited in a particular order (Euram), and if you do things out of order then bye bye. Some characters I couldn't figure out how to recruit, even when consulting walkthroughs (Roy's bandits, the Maximilian Knights, the guy stuck in prison, etc), so it seems there are obscure requirements that not even the most prominent walkthroughs have documented.

I was also disappointed by the lack of an epilogue. You kill the final boss, and then roll credits. Just like that. I did come to like the new setting and characters and would have liked to have seen more closure.

The skill system introduced in S3 was the beginnings of a good idea: allow players to customize their characters so that they could fulfill different roles. In S3, the system was pretty limited, so there was really one was to build each character. In S5, at first glance it seemed like the skills would allow for more meaningful customization, but alas. My party was the Prince, Rahal, Roog, Nick, Muroon, and Zweig. I experimented and tried building Nick and Roog into tanks (Nick being a parry tank and Roog being an evasion tank).

Unfortunately, no matter what combination of skills and stats and equipment I tried, they just wouldn't parry/evade reliably, let alone counterattack. In the end, the Prince was the only one who could reliably parry and counterattack, so he became my tank (firefly/counter). Rahal could also reliably parry and counterattack, but I would be losing out on his awesome magic sword role, so I had him stick with that (Flowing Water Rune/Double-Edge/Killer). Nick and Roog couldn't be anything more than magic sword damage dealers (Rage or Earth Sword rune/Double-Edge/Killer). I turned Nick into an earth sword magic user... and was disappointed that he did jack all to the final boss, who was immune to earth.

The best part of the game was recruiting an old beaver and his clansmen who could chew through the hulls of enemy ships.

 

[Deflowerer]

What kind of terrible TV are you trying to emulate? Pretty sure by PS2 times people weren't playing on such terrible CRTs.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The shader is Pal Royale 57. It's intended for NES but I like the look of it. It makes the colors pop, hides pixelation in character sprites, and helps disguise the hard edges of low poly games. It looks quite good at fullscreen 4k.

 

[flyingjohn]

but I like the look of it

Dude,just run native and bilinear and you would probably get better results.

 

[HansDampf]

Looks like I'm sitting 5 cm away from the TV screen.

 

[Carpincho Pampeano]

Imagine not having an actual CRT to play pre HD games, couldn't be me.

 

[Duraframe300]

Suikoden 5 doesn't even look that bad in higher res. No idea why you'd go with a waaaay too intense CRT filter if you're emulating anyway.

I mean does this

really look better to you than this?

 

[Machocruz]

Suikoden 5 didn't even look good on CRT when it came out. It was fuzzy, soft, and pale.

 

[jungl]

suikoden 5 is a very ugly game outside of the character models.

 

[infidel]