People News Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk Leave Bioware (and Gaming Industry)

[Major_Blackhart]

So, I'd have something witty or even cruel and mean spirited to say, but I honestly can't think of a fucking thing at the moment.
Goddammit. But other than that, good for EA.

 

[waywardOne]

KOTOR was as good if not better than BG IMO, and that had nothing to do with BIS. DA:O and ME 1 & 2 were also semi-decent (haven't finished ME3 yet) and even JE was okish. Hardly one-shot wonders relying on BIS to hold their hands. Also BG was hardly a one-shot wonder in any case, given it had a sequel that most people liked...

BG established the formula for everything after: NPC interaction format (hello > background > trust quest > loyalty), chapter-based plot development, dialog over decisions. Even their characters are recycled. I didn't say it was their only or even best game, but that the others were devoid of anything original.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, and your previous attempt at being snarky and claiming that it's cool to hate Bioware on Codex doesn't hold any water- on Codex BGs were already talked about as being subpar in 2006 or so. A shame that I can't find this thread now but just so you know, "hating" on bioware and bgs isn't something new and it should never be seen as something unthinkable.

You mean the same 2006 Codex that was so obsessed with Troika-esque storyfaggotry and C&C which eventually resulted in the controversial design decisions of AoD?

Your God, not ours. Thankfully the Codex of today has developed a more balanced view of the genre.

 

[Executer]

Say what you want about AOD, but at least the insane amounts of C&C and choose your own adventure vibe are something relatively original. Personally I like it.

 

[Kane]

with how things are now this is for the best. good luck to greg and ray. o/

 

[Black]

Oh, and your previous attempt at being snarky and claiming that it's cool to hate Bioware on Codex doesn't hold any water- on Codex BGs were already talked about as being subpar in 2006 or so. A shame that I can't find this thread now but just so you know, "hating" on bioware and bgs isn't something new and it should never be seen as something unthinkable.

You mean the same 2006 Codex that was so obsessed with Troika-esque storyfaggotry

What?

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, and your previous attempt at being snarky and claiming that it's cool to hate Bioware on Codex doesn't hold any water- on Codex BGs were already talked about as being subpar in 2006 or so. A shame that I can't find this thread now but just so you know, "hating" on bioware and bgs isn't something new and it should never be seen as something unthinkable.

You mean the same 2006 Codex that was so obsessed with Troika-esque storyfaggotry

What?

What I'm saying is, if you honestly think that Baldur's Gate and games like it are bad games, then you have a skewed and historically incorrect expectation of what the RPG genre is supposed to be like. Check your premises, re-evaluate your expectations.

 

[Grunker]

why are you hitting your head against a wall infinitron

that must hurt

 

[Black]

Thanks for proving my entire point about them being holy cows.

 

[Grunker]

"they are good games"

"no they are not"

"yes they are"

"see they are holy cows"

what an enlightening coversations

maybe they are unholy cows for you

 

[hoverdog]

diablo 3 is obviously better

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I find people who get all butthurt about bestest crpgs evar like BG, KOTOR or Arcanum kind of annoying. This archetype of "guize I know a lot about games cause I played BG/KOTOR/Arcanum when it first came out and it was my first crpg and I loved it" is not doing anybody any favors.

 

[suejak]

I find people who get all butthurt about bestest crpgs evar like BG, KOTOR or Arcanum kind of annoying. This archetype of "guize I know a lot about games cause I played BG/KOTOR/Arcanum when it first came out and it was my first crpg and I loved it" is not doing anybody any favors.

NUB ALERT

 

[Kane]

"they are good games"

"no they are not"

"yes they are"

"see they are holy cows"

what an enlightening coversations

maybe they are unholy cows for you

this is the next-gen codex, where you throw around phrases you picked up over dinner from your parents and you think sound cool

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I find people who get all butthurt about bestest crpgs evar like BG, KOTOR or Arcanum kind of annoying. This archetype of "guize I know a lot about games cause I played BG/KOTOR/Arcanum when it first came out and it was my first crpg and I loved it" is not doing anybody any favors.

NUB ALERT

Yes, exactly.

 

[Nagling]

..on Codex BGs were already talked about as being subpar in 2006 or so. A shame that I can't find this thread now but just so you know, "hating" on bioware and bgs isn't something new and it should never be seen as something unthinkable.

"Hating" Bioware and Bgs are not new and you might find it interesting too know that, early in the Codex history, that is several years before 2006 Baldurs Gate and the Infinity Engine wasn't held in high esteem. IE had its very own nickname: Inbred Engine.
So, disliking Bioware and IE is the original Codex way.

 

[attackfighter]

Codex was founded by Fallout fags obsessed with C&C, non-linearity, etc.

It's no wonder they didn't like BG series, as it was purely hack&slash.

Black is a Fallout fag who wandered in from that shitty Fallout site (the one with a board dedicated to Fallout 3) NMA. He's epic butthurt about all games RPGs that deviate from Fallout's fundamentals - so he ends up raging against BG, VtMB and other decent RPGs from time to time. Amusingly while he's extremely picky about RPGs, he holds non-RPGs to very loose standards, at one point praising Diablo 3's voice acting. He has quite a lot in common with Codex' founders

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Hey, be nice youngun.
This is the Codex. Be appropriate.
For fuck's sake.

 

[Black]

Codex was founded by Fallout fags obsessed with C&C, non-linearity, etc.

It's no wonder they didn't like BG series, as it was purely hack&slash.

Black is a Fallout fag who wandered in from that shitty Fallout site (the one with a board dedicated to Fallout 3) NMA. He's epic butthurt about all games RPGs that deviate from Fallout's fundamentals - so he ends up raging against BG, VtMB and other decent RPGs from time to time. Amusingly while he's extremely picky about RPGs, he holds non-RPGs to very loose standards, at one point praising Diablo 3's voice acting. He has quite a lot in common with Codex' founders

False. R00fles.
Oh, and Codex now has subforums dedicated to popamole playing games and weeaboo playing games, now what?

 

[attackfighter]

Weeaboo forum can be excused as a symptom of yellow fever.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You mean the same 2006 Codex that was so obsessed with Troika-esque storyfaggotry and C&C which eventually resulted in the controversial design decisions of AoD?

What does controversial mean in the context of this sentence? I could be wrong but it certainly sounds like:

"You mean the same 2006 Codex that was so obsessed with Troika-esque storyfaggotry and C&C which eventually resulted in a game that some people liked and some people didn't? Surely we don't want to experience this horror again!"

Edit:

What I'm saying is, if you honestly think that Baldur's Gate and games like it are bad games, then you have a skewed and historically incorrect expectation of what the RPG genre is supposed to be like. Check your premises, re-evaluate your expectations.

Right.

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2365.0.html
^ 2 years before BG

Some of the deepest and complex RPGs were made before BG, so let's not pretend that most pre-BG RPG were some kinda dumb hack-n-slash.

BG was an excellent game but a poor RPG. It was an action-adventure with adjustable stats and piss-easy "plays itself" RT combat. With pause.

 

[skuphundaku]

You mean the same 2006 Codex that was so obsessed with Troika-esque storyfaggotry and C&C which eventually resulted in the controversial design decisions of AoD?

What does controversial mean in the context of this sentence? I could be wrong but it certainly sounds like:

"You mean the same 2006 Codex that was so obsessed with Troika-esque storyfaggotry and C&C which eventually resulted in a game that some people liked and some people didn't? Surely we don't want to experience this horror again!"

I think he means more like "You mean the same 2006 Codex that was so obsessed with Troika-esque storyfaggotry and C&C which eventually resulted in a game that some people liked, but that wasn't the `Fallout & Arcanum done right` messiah of RPGs that people were hoping for?"

The backlash about C&C that I'm noticing on the Codex lately is quite worrying. After all, C&C is the defining characteristic of RPGs, IMHO, and people are getting more and more fractured into camps, with the "RPG=storyfaggotry" and "RPG=combatfaggotry" being the largest ones, all of them ignoring, if not outright shunning, C&C.

See what you did, VD? You broke the Codex. LEAVE THE CODEX ALONE!

 

[Infinitron]

Vault Dweller

I recently read this thread and it made me feel bad about everything that's been said with regard to your game here on the Codex. I honestly do like AoD and plan to buy it.

My post basically stated that your game is the culmination of everything that the Codex was crazy about during its formative years. I hope that you can take that as a compliment as much as an insult.

 

[Infinitron]

The backlash about C&C that I'm noticing on the Codex lately is quite worrying. After all, C&C is the defining characteristic of RPGs, IMHO, and people are getting more and more fractured into camps, with the "RPG=storyfaggotry" and "RPG=combatfaggotry" being the largest ones, all of them ignoring, if not outright shunning, C&C.

See what you did, VD? You broke the Codex. LEAVE THE CODEX ALONE!

I think there very few storyfags on the Codex. There are C&Cfags, and also lots of "setting-fags" ("nooo not high fantasy SO BLAND")

 

[LittleJoe]

Some of the deepest and complex RPGs were made before BG, so let's not pretend that most pre-BG RPG were some kinda dumb hack-n-slash.

BG was an excellent game but a poor RPG. It was an action-adventure with adjustable stats and piss-easy "plays itself" RT combat. With pause.

So you're saying that the essence of a good RPG is that it must be complex and deep?