Realms of Arkania

[TotS]

If I could make my impossible fantasy RPG that nobody would buy, it would have Arkania's travel system, Ars Magica's magic system, ToEE's combat, Planescape's dialogue, Fallout's rules, Arcanum's world and BG2's art. That would be niche to the MAX!

Damn, someone has to force Vin Diesel (or any other successful nerd) to finance this baby. :D

 

[Gwendo]

You can have a mixture. Mount&Blade relies on a mixture of stats and player skill. For example having high archery helps you be able to hit a target. If skill is too low no matter how good you are you'll miss.

You call that "immersion"? Shooting straight to a guy and then a message appearing saying you didn't? Or swinging a sword agains't an adversary, yearing the sound of blade on armor/flesh, and a message saying you missed? Or firing a machine gun agains't an adversary, very close and knowing that it's on target... And a message appearing you miss? (or no message at all, you're firing agains't someone and he just doesn't take damage. How odd is that?

And I don't have a problem with getting rid of stats altogether. Like I said I'm not an RPG purist (I think AD&D is retarded). Back when I did 'pen and paper' (social/non-computer) role-playing I ended up 'freeforming' (or whatever it's called). I just want a fun game to play.

I agree. AD&D was made for paper, not for computers. They had to use all those rules to emulate a game, an RPG. That "translation" is not necessary in a CRPG.


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For anyone interested, it appears the first two games in that trilogy are abandonware, so here's the links, for anyone willing to try these games:

http://www.abandonia.com/games/104/download/RealmsofArkaniaBladeofDestiny.htm

http://www.abandonia.com/games/102/download/RealmsofArkaniaStarTrail.htm

 

[Atrokkus]

You call that "immersion"? Shooting straight to a guy and then a message appearing saying you didn't? Or swinging a sword agains't an adversary, yearing the sound of blade on armor/flesh, and a message saying you missed? Or firing a machine gun agains't an adversary, very close and knowing that it's on target... And a message appearing you miss? (or no message at all, you're firing agains't someone and he just doesn't take damage. How odd is that?

Bullseye. That's the dumbest system ever, and Morrowind was an ultimate display of it.

 

[Zomg]

You can have a mixture. Mount&Blade relies on a mixture of stats and player skill. For example having high archery helps you be able to hit a target. If skill is too low no matter how good you are you'll miss.

You call that "immersion"? Shooting straight to a guy and then a message appearing saying you didn't? Or swinging a sword agains't an adversary, yearing the sound of blade on armor/flesh, and a message saying you missed? Or firing a machine gun agains't an adversary, very close and knowing that it's on target... And a message appearing you miss? (or no message at all, you're firing agains't someone and he just doesn't take damage. How odd is that?

Yes, indeed, it's terrible when "Miss!" appears over the heads of enemies in Mount & Blade.

 

[Roqua]

I guess that’s how you separate the men from the boys. RoA’s combat system was fantastic. Fighter’s shined, you just had to know what you were doing. Fighter’s were hands down the best choice in combat, a good example would be the boots sticking out of the wall battle in Riva. Only one could fight, and only a competent warrior could win. And Startrail had perfect direction if you are smarter than Corky. It tells you exactly what to do and exactly where to go. You just have to, you know, pay attention and ah, not be retarded.

I love how the games fucks you; the first time I played through startrail, you have to have a certain spell to get certain characters into the cave were the endless waterbag is. And it is a stupid spell.

Yes, combat is hard when you first start blade. Fighters miss a lot, and their weapons might break. You might catch a disease when you finally get a chance to rest. Etc. That’s called challenge. If you freshman bitches had some balls you might actually enjoy it.

I think the combat is far better than in ToEE, because in ToEE in a lot of the temples, the combat was far too easy. They used the too many easy enemies model at a lot of places. ToEE only shined in Ironman.

RoA was, is, and will probably always be my favorite rpgs for the superior chargen, chardev, openness, and outstanding TB combat. It is truly a great series in every aspect.

 

[Atrokkus]

It's somehow comforting to know that you can actually love something other than penis, ROqua.

 

[Claw]

I find it disconcerting how Roqua's post appears to be the most sensible - or at least the most agreeable from my personal opinion - post in the whole thread.

I can't believe anyone could complain about a lack of direction in Star Trail. Heck, just say the name of the game out loud.

 

[Roqua]

It's somehow comforting to know that you can actually love something other than penis, ROqua.

It is very discomforting to know I am somehow part of a community that is retarded and does not like the games in the genre they are supposed to be fans of, but like instead games that belong in different genres and they still keep claiming they like a genre they don't.

 

[Atrokkus]

So much hatered
Im just kiddin lawl.

Don't start the genre quarrel again, though. There is no strict definition of an RPG, and you (should) understand that.

And yeah, RoA pretty much rocks my balls, though interface is kinda fucking clunky, but the fact that the game is quite old renders my complaint pretty irrelevant.

 

[sheek]

You can have a mixture. Mount&Blade relies on a mixture of stats and player skill. For example having high archery helps you be able to hit a target. If skill is too low no matter how good you are you'll miss.

You call that "immersion"? Shooting straight to a guy and then a message appearing saying you didn't? Or swinging a sword agains't an adversary, yearing the sound of blade on armor/flesh, and a message saying you missed? Or firing a machine gun agains't an adversary, very close and knowing that it's on target... And a message appearing you miss? (or no message at all, you're firing agains't someone and he just doesn't take damage. How odd is that?

I think you misunderstood...

That does not happen in M&B. In M&B what happens is that your stats help you be able to control your movements. If you hit, you hit. But a shitty skill makes it harder for you (the player) to aim your sword swing/arrow correctly.

Eg.

Shooting: the higher your archery skill the less 'deflection' the arrow path will have from where you point. On an average skill level pointing in the middle of a guy's chest 50% of the shots are going to be scatttered around more than 50 cm from that center (a miss). On a low skill level pointing in exactly the same place that would be more like 75%.

Melee: here what happens is that you control the angle/direction of the blade yourself. What the stats do is increase the speed at which you swing the blade, how quickly you can change it's direction (for feints and such) and the damage. If you physically connect you're going to connect. Less skill only means that you're not going to get the chance of striking a good blow as often.

That is how things work in reality. I never played a medieval combat game which was more realistic than M&B.

I suggest you check the game out for yourself.

 

[hack]

star trail is still one of my favourite RPGs EVER. really good!
and, yes, i am looking forward to oblivion pretty much.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You can have a mixture. Mount&Blade relies on a mixture of stats and player skill. For example having high archery helps you be able to hit a target. If skill is too low no matter how good you are you'll miss.

You can never have a mixture that allows nearly as much depth and consistancy of actions as turn based provides. What you can do with turn based depends solely on how much time you're willing to spend developing the combat system and the assets the combat system will need. That's certainly not the case for real time.

For example, in ToEE, you had a trip attack for polearms and whips. Implimenting something like that in real time, while possible, would either force the player to continually look at the attackers' legs or multiple attack commands or some quirky Street Fighteresque special move key combination. Hell, it could require a mixture of those interface dealings just mentioned to pull off. With a turn based system, it's as easy as specifying that's what you want to do.

Meanwhile, ToEE allows for gobs upon gobs of options well and above that, which if tossed in a similar real time combat game, would end up with interface control ambiguity. Combine that with your mixture of skills and the real time combat interface clumsiness of throwing in too much, and you end up with what really breaks immersion - player frustration!

The player figures out he's fighting a fucked up interface rather than a goblin, which is the same reason why people hated Cliff Racers in Morrowind.

And I don't have a problem with getting rid of stats altogether. Like I said I'm not an RPG purist (I think AD&D is retarded). Back when I did 'pen and paper' (social/non-computer) role-playing I ended up 'freeforming' (or whatever it's called). I just want a fun game to play.

Masturbation.

 

[Zomg]

Can someone point me to a place where I can find a scan of the quick reference card with the keyboard commands for Blade of Destiny? I can't find the controls in the manual.

 

[sheek]

Can someone point me to a place where I can find a scan of the quick reference card with the keyboard commands for Blade of Destiny? I can't find the controls in the manual.

You can download the manual and all the extra shit at Abandonia.com

 

[rei1974]

I remember playing star trail on my amiga 1200 ! ahhh good old times when there still were great RPG... not 3d showcases like nowadays
I never managed to finish it too though, I suspect was because of a bug (quite fun but at those times internet wasn't commonly available so no patches to download!).
I have very sweet memories, but of course they show some limits compared with recent games...

 

[Zufuriin]

Is there any introduction or explaination in Star Trail? I feel like I'm missing something, as the game puts me right in the middle of the game. I'm having difficulties figuring out what buttons and icons do what, as their are no tool tips or any in-game help that I've come across. Maybe there is a readme or beginners guide somewhere?

 

[Gwendo]

Read the manual (in abandonia.com) and the FAQ in gamefaqs.com

Also, check this site.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Only palyed shadows over Riva. I liked it but for some reason never finished it - I think I hit an obstacle I just couldn't overcome and lost interest. The combo of first person 3D exploring and tun based tactical combat was a bit weird, but not bad. I hope to play the whole series one day.

 

[Twinfalls]

If I could make my impossible fantasy RPG that nobody would buy, it would have Arkania's travel system, Ars Magica's magic system, ToEE's combat, Planescape's dialogue, Fallout's rules, Arcanum's world and BG2's art. That would be niche to the MAX!

What makes you think nobody would buy such a game? If one makes it 3D, provides optional real-time combat, and a decent marketing budget, then for what reason would it not sell?

What's with the negativity in this industry?

 

[Dgaider]

What makes you think nobody would buy such a game? If one makes it 3D, provides optional real-time combat, and a decent marketing budget, then for what reason would it not sell?

What's with the negativity in this industry?

You're right. My bad. That would totally sell.

Satisfying the minority is absolutely the way to go. We just need to think positive.

 

[LlamaGod]

Ze majority iz ze best choice! ZEIG HEIL

 

[Roqua]

If I could make my impossible fantasy RPG that nobody would buy, it would have Arkania's travel system, Ars Magica's magic system, ToEE's combat, Planescape's dialogue, Fallout's rules, Arcanum's world and BG2's art. That would be niche to the MAX!

What makes you think nobody would buy such a game? If one makes it 3D, provides optional real-time combat, and a decent marketing budget, then for what reason would it not sell?

What's with the negativity in this industry?

Optional RT combat? Because hybrids have worked so well before? Hybrids don’t work. The TB combat will never be good. And from what I hear, the RT combat isn’t that good either. I wouldn’t know, as I’ve never seen good RT combat.

And I thought you hated marketing as it was immoral and forced people into making decisions their stupid brains would have never came to without the evil marketing; why would you be in support of something you find so evil, unethical, and immoral?

When are you going to at least attempt being consistent?

 

[Roqua]

You're right. My bad. That would totally sell.

Satisfying the minority is absolutely the way to go. We just need to think positive.

Isn’t the best selling game right now a TB game? Are you saying the RPG audience is so stupid and shallow that they would ignore a AAA RPG because it is too complex? But GalCiv2 isn’t complex? Now that FPS’s are far more complex than RPGs you are saying that the audience that buys Bioware games are more retarded, more stupid, less able to deal with challenge and a little complexity than that audience?

Maybe if you made your games for a more intelligent audience, that enjoys challenge and can handle and appreciate a little complexity, you will find that there are rpg lovers over the age of seven. Maybe if you put more emphasis on gameplay over graphics, strategy over easy, no-brainer combat, choice over flash, you would find an audience just as large as the morons you cater too now. And you wouldn’t have to be a bunch of pandering bitches anymore. And your audience wouldn’t be morons.

But then again, if the devs at Bioware can’t even build an effective fighter in RoA, or find the blatant and obvious direction in Startrail, there might not be any hope. You saying your nonsense about RoA is like me saying there was no barrels to loot in the OC for NWN, and that the combat in Bioware games is far too challenging and complex. It is just retarded and stupid nonsense. It is not even an opinion. It is manifestly false information.

Bioware and Pat Robinson are the same thing. Twisting the minds of the stupid for personal gain with nonsense and drivel.

 

[Twinfalls]

And I thought you hated marketing as it was immoral and forced people into making decisions their stupid brains would have never came to without the evil marketing; why would you be in support of something you find so evil, unethical, and immoral?

No.

You are, as always, reducing arguments to absolutes. I'll say this one more time only, as you will most probably ignore and/or wilfully forget this:

Marketing as a substitute for quality has become a seriously negative force in human affairs.

This does NOT mean that one must commit commercial suicide by using no marketing whatsoever, when trying to sell a product of genuine quality.

Maybe if you made your games for a more intelligent audience, that enjoys challenge and can handle and appreciate a little complexity, you will find that there are rpg lovers over the age of seven. Maybe if you put more emphasis on gameplay over graphics, strategy over easy, no-brainer combat, choice over flash, you would find an audience just as large as the morons you cater too now. And you wouldn’t have to be a bunch of pandering bitches anymore. And your audience wouldn’t be morons.

Yes.

 

[Twinfalls]

Oh, and Dave - it must give you such fulfillment to be making games you do not want to make.