Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Monkey Baron]

The justification is understandable but they aren't bugs so they shouldn't be in the basic patch. Same with the tutorial teleportation thing (to sound like a broken record.)

That's why it is called an "unofficial" patch .

But these make it a mod...

 

[Wesp5]

The justification is understandable but they aren't bugs so they shouldn't be in the basic patch. Same with the tutorial teleportation thing (to sound like a broken record.)

That's why it is called an "unofficial" patch .

But these make it a mod...

Like you said, it depends on what you see as a bug. Nine times the same Malkavian line while all other clans have different lines is a bug to me. As is the exit of a building looking completely different in different maps. Or enemies spawning in rooms where they could never haven gotten into. Just compare this to the changes that real Bloodlines mods made, like the Clan Quest Mod, The Final Nights or the Antitribu mod.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Like you said, it depends on what you see as a bug. Nine times the same Malkavian line while all other clans have different lines is a bug to me. As is the exit of a building looking completely different in different maps. Or enemies spawning in rooms where they could never haven gotten into. Just compare this to the changes that real Bloodlines mods made, like the Clan Quest Mod, The Final Nights or the Antitribu mod.

You're using "bug" to mean "thing I don't like". That's not what it means. Sure, maybe things would have been different if Troika had more time, but there's no way anyone can know what they would have done differently. Making changes based entirely on what you'd like is modding. That's the definition of modding. It's ridiculous that you even try to pretend otherwise.

 

[Wesp5]

You're using "bug" to mean "thing I don't like".

Just let's stick to the examples we have here. How do you call Malkavians having copy pasted placeholder lines when all other clans have different lines? An intended feature? Okay, bug is a little bit much here, but it's clearly an oversight at least. Shouldn't this be fixed? Where is the line between real bugs and things that some people find okay and others don't? Or let's take the theatre exit. Obviously the mapper working on the tutorial map and the hub didn't communicate, so we have an area that doesn't fit into the city at all. To me this is a consistency bug, is this a cool feature to you? It doesn't affect the gameplay anyway, so to me this is a fix! If this is too much modding for you, as mentioned in the discussion here, you can always play the vanilla game today with just the exe and dll fixes of the patch...

Sure, maybe things would have been different if Troika had more time, but there's no way anyone can know what they would have done differently.

That is why it is called an "unofficial" patch. I can't know what Troika would have done, so I fix what I and the hundreds of people helping think should be fixed.

 

[Bester]

Daily reminder that Wesp introduces bugs intentionally, because he craves attention of being asked how to sidestep a bug on the forums. He'll then graciously appear and let you know how you can proceed with playing.

Every version of the patch has just the right amount of bugs to make it playable, yet crash at a critical junction to make it unfinishable without his personal input.

He also changes shit randomly just out of spite for a perfect game that is VtM and claims "it's a bugfix". He's a fucking loon.

 

[S.torch]

Are you seriously complaining because the modders didn't leave 9 (or so) times the same line repeated over and over again? I could understand if you were complaining about the quality of those new lines, that they don't respect the story, but apparently there is no problem as your complaints are simply "you changed something, wrong". If you're so bothered by such a minor change, which is an improvement at best, and at worst superfluous, maybe just play the vanilla game.

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

The correct fix would be to remove the nine different normal-clan lines, and replace them all with "Okay".

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

Or better yet, "I'll be going now."

 

[Monkey Baron]

Are you seriously complaining because the modders didn't leave 9 (or so) times the same line repeated over and over again? I could understand if you were complaining about the quality of those new lines, that they don't respect the story, but apparently there is no problem as your complaints are simply "you changed something, wrong". If you're so bothered by such a minor change, which is an improvement at best, and at worst superfluous, maybe just play the vanilla game.

This is the earliest instance of dialogue being changed, which is why brought it up. There are other instances I can name as well in Santa Monica. but it doesn't really matter since wesp doesn't see it as a bug.

If you read the page before you would see that I just completed a playthrough of the True Patch and Vanilla, shilling the latter to all Bloodlines fans... And yes, the quality of the new lines aren't great, and don't match the tone of the Malk.

I think anyone who has played Malk can agree that they have a very distinct way of speaking that is archaic and repetitive. Altering that is fine in a mod, but they don't fit in a "patch" that advertises itself as bugfixes only. This is the same reason why Tess' changes in TPG are also unacceptable, but it would be the better option if I didn't experience so many bugs. I'm halfway tempted to replay it because I'm under the impression I've done something incorrect.

 

[Monkey Baron]

Okay, I've reinstalled the True Patch, onto Steam but using Wesp's .dll's and .exe. I'm running it through Steam this time and there are now no graphical glitches like there was the first time I tried. I also have capped the framerate in the autoexec so hopefully I won't run into any bugs. I'll be doing my Nosferatu playthrough and will be killing Chunk this time.

 

[S.torch]

and repetitive

Giving the same answer 9 times without any remark more than repetitive, seems a bit dumb and unintentional.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

You're using "bug" to mean "thing I don't like".

Just let's stick to the examples we have here. How do you call Malkavians having copy pasted placeholder lines when all other clans have different lines? An intended feature? Okay, bug is a little bit much here, but it's clearly an oversight at least. Shouldn't this be fixed? Where is the line between real bugs and things that some people find okay and others don't? Or let's take the theatre exit. Obviously the mapper working on the tutorial map and the hub didn't communicate, so we have an area that doesn't fit into the city at all. To me this is a consistency bug, is this a cool feature to you? It doesn't affect the gameplay anyway, so to me this is a fix! If this is too much modding for you, as mentioned in the discussion here, you can always play the vanilla game today with just the exe and dll fixes of the patch...

Sure, maybe things would have been different if Troika had more time, but there's no way anyone can know what they would have done differently.

That is why it is called an "unofficial" patch. I can't know what Troika would have done, so I fix what I and the hundreds of people helping think should be fixed.

There's a significant difference between bugs and unfinished content. Bugs are removed. That's patching. Unfinished content gets expanded on. That's not patching. Instead of removing bugs you're creating new things. If you're adding your own content then you're modding. It's a pretty clear distinction, too. Everyone can agree that Troika would have removed bugs if they had the time. They would have done the same thing to them you did. But would they have created new dialogue/edited areas/removed enemies/done whatever in the exact same way you did? Probably not. That's why it's a mod. You switched from making the game they wanted to make to making the game you wanted to make.
I don't even care about the changes, I just want you to be honest with yourself about them. Though I don't even know why I'm posting this, because I'm sure you've been hearing this for years and you haven't had any epiphany yet. Whatever.

Also you seem to be avoiding the respawning enemies that you removed. Is that because even you can't pretend that's a bug so you're just trying to avoid thinking about it?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Wesp and Tessera are not troika developers so all their content is modding. Even Sawyer's mod for New Vegas isn't considered a patch because he made it in his spare time.

I believe that settles the matter. See you all in a month when this argument begins anew.

 

[Monkey Baron]

and repetitive

Giving the same answer 9 times without any remark more than repetitive, seems a bit dumb and unintentional.

I went back and counted there are 5 instances of it in the tutorial. If I went and counted all Malk lines I'm sure I would find a few dozen instances of "I am no longer here." Should they be changed too?

Like I've said multiple times before, the issue is that dialogue is being changed that shouldn't be changed in the basic patch. But it's fine, I'm optimistic that this Romeo and Juliet Frankenstein patch will fare well enough to be an alternative for anyone who feels the same way.

 

[Wesp5]

If you read the page before you would see that I just completed a playthrough of the True Patch and Vanilla, shilling the latter to all Bloodlines fans... And yes, the quality of the new lines aren't great, and don't match the tone of the Malk.

Please offer some better lines and I will include them! As I wrote most of those lines were written by other people and I'm hard to judge style as a non native speaker.

 

[Wesp5]

There's a significant difference between bugs and unfinished content. Bugs are removed. That's patching. Unfinished content gets expanded on. That's not patching.

Sorry, but when I took the patch over from Dan Upright he already had restored the best weapon of the game, the SWAT rifle in his Unofficial Patch so I assumed that this was fine. Only much latter when the TPG fanatics appeared I was made aware that some people see this differently. Otherwise I agree with Clockwork Knight that these are all just linguistic details, we are not Troika therefore nothing is official. Also I believe that a lot of patches also added new content to other games so that differentiation is useless as well...

Also you seem to be avoiding the respawning enemies that you removed. Is that because even you can't pretend that's a bug so you're just trying to avoid thinking about it?

I only remove respawning in impossible places, because this is an inconsistency of the world and I believe that another thing besides story, dialogue and characters that made Bloodlines a classic is that its world seemed real and consistent which had a lot of impact on the atmosphere. At least it did for the scientist in me, just think the old SW vs the prequels and sequels, or Babylon 5 vs Star Trek. Yeah, to me some things are issues that are none to others, but many other fans see it the same. Or worse, just recently I had this discussion on ModDB about a line not being centered:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/vtmb-unofficial-patch/downloads/unofficial-patch-109/page/3#comments

 

[Wesp5]

I went back and counted there are 5 instances of it in the tutorial.

Maybe during your playthrough, in the text file there are nine plus one that is slightly different.

If I went and counted all Malk lines I'm sure I would find a few dozen instances of "I am no longer here." Should they be changed too?

No, one occurrence in the whole tutorial.

Like I've said multiple times before, the issue is that dialogue is being changed that shouldn't be changed in the basic patch.

Another problem here is that I can't easily switch those lines between basic and plus...

 

[Bester]

Please offer some better lines and I will include them!

The ones that were there originally are better, as you've been told a hundred times already.

 

[Grunker]

 

[jackofshadows]

Or better yet, "I'll be going now."

I should go.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Or better yet, "I'll be going now."

I should go.

I'm gone

 

[Wesp5]

The ones that were there originally are better, as you've been told a hundred times already.

All nine times sounding like the Malkavian is a broken record? Which of course he isn't in other dialogues...

 

[Gargaune]

Or worse, just recently I had this discussion on ModDB about a line not being centered:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/vtmb-unofficial-patch/downloads/unofficial-patch-109/page/3#comments

Fascinating. Does the menu graphic support transparency? A quick stopgap might be to do a gradient fade-out at the right end, that way the misalignment is less jarring. Or if it doesn't do alpha, as long as it's always used over the brown background you can just do a solid gradient for the same effect. Might wanna simplify the left end too, though.

 

[Wesp5]

A quick stopgap might be to do a gradient fade-out at the right end, that way the misalignment is less jarring.

The problem is that the same line is used elsewhere, most notable on the character sheet itself and this wouldn't look too good there. Sad thing is that the character sheet shows that it can be stretched but this is done directly in GameUI.dll...

 

[Gargaune]

The problem is that the same line is used elsewhere, most notable on the character sheet itself and this wouldn't look too good there. Sad thing is that the character sheet shows that it can be stretched but this is done directly in GameUI.dll...

Ah. Well, was worth a shot.