Romance in cRPGs - is it ever good?

[sser]

It did have the advantage of being the third in a series, but the Witcher 3 is the only game I've played that had remotely mature or realistic romances. Virtually all other games have their romances play out like you're witnessing a 12-year old girl's dollhouse drama.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Generally I only find it tolerable when it's brief and only really affects the ending. As in, before finishing the game PC asks / gets asked "Hey you wanna do something together when we are done saving the world / running for our lives / whatever?" (as MotB did it). It rarely makes much sense to engage in this before, and I can't really think of an example where it wasn't done badly.

 

[Excidium II]

It did have the advantage of being the third in a series, but the Witcher 3 is the only game I've played that had remotely mature or realistic romances. Virtually all other games have their romances play out like you're witnessing a 12-year old girl's dollhouse drama.

They dramatically reduced the amount of chicks to bang with every game, if that's the price I'd rather take 12yo girl's romance.

 

[Haba]

It'd be refreshing to have a game where you play as a travelling swordsman/sailor/preacher/cobbler, going from town/port to town/port, seducing wenches and kicking ass.

 

[Lhynn]

Getting the girl is a cool part of any heroes journey. I dont much care for romances or systems where you gain points or other retarded shit like that, but getting the girl makes you more of a protagonist, it makes the power fantasy even better.
I think making it a central point of a game is retarded, but i do believe it is an important element of a fantasy.

 

[Lhynn]

It'd be refreshing to have a game where you play as a travelling swordsman/sailor/preacher/cobbler, going from town/port to town/port, seducing wenches and kicking ass.

So the fable games?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I liked Witcher card collecting. Collect them all.

 

[Arulan]

I think part of the reason why romances generally fail is that the underlying system is clearly evident to the player. Once you feel you can manipulate the system to get the results you want, it all breaks apart. That, and as a developer you need to put in a significant (writing) time investment, and have the talent to do so, which is why it's better avoided.

 

[Mustawd]

cRPGs are NO place for romance. Bottom line.

I always find it shocking how many closeted uber nerd neckbeards inhabit the codex. Romances in an RPG? Really?

Really? So this is what you want your gaming experience to be?

What the hell is wrong with you all?

 

[Morality Games]

In a simulation, you sort of have to. In a narrative like Fallout 1/2 that simulates gambling, horse racing, being champion boxer (?!), war, thievery, assassination, science, engineering, medicine, the absolute determination to avoid sex at all costs would eventually feel strange.

 

[Kahr]

Romance in games mostly feels like cheap fan service to me which should distract from the game part being shit.
And if they already go fan service they can complete the circle and include falling diviner girls.

 

[shihonage]

In order for romance not to suck, we have to have a story that does not suck. All CRPG stories suck. QED.

But cheer up, here's a pair of tits with dialogue

Hi, we are Tits. Welcome to our glorious village. What would you like to know?

1) Where is the blacksmith?
2) Tell me about this place.
3) I have come seeking the Pussy.
4) [squish]
5) [initiate combat]

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

It's only a part of a bigger problem that is crpgs becoming some weird social sims where huge parts of the game are about having, sometimes extremely long-winded, conversations with wacky/flirty/serious/funneh/sexy/silly/whatever npcs. A trend that indeed was popularized by bioware and which I find pretty horrible.

That said, seeing tits is always nice.

 

[eXalted]

It did have the advantage of being the third in a series, but the Witcher 3 is the only game I've played that had remotely mature or realistic romances. Virtually all other games have their romances play out like you're witnessing a 12-year old girl's dollhouse drama.

They dramatically reduced the amount of chicks to bang with every game, if that's the price I'd rather take 12yo girl's romance.

You have the brothels. 40 orens per piece. Cheap wenches.

 

[Excidium II]

It did have the advantage of being the third in a series, but the Witcher 3 is the only game I've played that had remotely mature or realistic romances. Virtually all other games have their romances play out like you're witnessing a 12-year old girl's dollhouse drama.

They dramatically reduced the amount of chicks to bang with every game, if that's the price I'd rather take 12yo girl's romance.

You have the brothels. 40 orens per piece. Cheap wenches.

All the whores have more or less the same body.

 

[Falksi]

I think part of the reason why romances generally fail is that the underlying system is clearly evident to the player. Once you feel you can manipulate the system to get the results you want, it all breaks apart. That, and as a developer you need to put in a significant (writing) time investment, and have the talent to do so, which is why it's better avoided.

Yup. I like to see it in games tho, it just adds something else of interest, but you're right regards the system.
It'd be nice to see them mix it up more so it reflects reality better e.g. Women who like a bastard and who become more attracted to you the worse you treat them, whilst losing interest in those who are nice to them; male romance options who leave your party with an "I'll call you" gesture after they've had their way; romance options which affect your finances coz the pretty princess type can't go without the latest dress; quest lines which involve the birth of your unplanned child etc.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Sengoku Rance

 

[PulsatingBrain]

I think it's good that they stay totally optional, because I'm not interested in them for the most part, although in Witcher 3 it becomes fairly obvious that Yennifer and Geralt are just supposed to be together, and in Mass Effect, I found myself quite personally drawn to Liara so I threw the bone at her

 

[Azrael the cat]

He was semi-joking at the time, but I think MCA actually has it right with preferring 'hatemances' in games (where the player can't win - Dienorra is dead and doomed, so is TNO and by the time he gets to move things on with Annah/FFG he really ought to know by then that if he's does, it's probably dooming them as well).

Romance mechanics with 'win' outcomes have two styles, both of which show how unsuited they are to the medium:

1. Gamey with lots of romance options, like Bioware, where the mechanics of 'solve the daddy-issues', 'do the party member quest' or even 'give them stuff' are so transparent it feels like something you'd have to have a really fucked up idea of relationships (ironically, the one that guys who place women impossibly high pedestals + constantly white-knight them, tend to have) for it not to feel jarring.

2. Plot-justified stories, where they can work really well...but are wholly reliant on the player being as interested in the story as the developer wants them to be (i.e. Witcher series). Which is a pretty big risk for a product where writing isn't part of the green-light pitch (i.e. it's not like they're taking 100s of finished screenplays from writers and then choosing which one to make into a game).

Tragic romances can work reliably, so long as you're not doing a cinematic to tell the player how the writer wants them to think (i.e. the player can just 'not give a shit' a move on). That's because they gel with an overlooked crpg and adventure game mechanic - the intentional plot-wall. In a game with lots of freedom and C+C, especially where the player is getting more and more powerful and can usually assume that there's always a way to overcome any challenge/injustice, throwing a hard 'sorry, you can't win this one' can be extremely powerful. Not just in romances - the Arcanum half-ogre questline is a great example. No need for a cinematic or mopey dialogue to tell the player how to feel - they'll get it themselves as they rage after trying to find every possible point that maybe they can do things differently to get a better outcome, and experience that sinking feeling when they realise that there really isn't anything they can do this time.

 

[Prime Junta]

Team Deionarra checking in. (And Team Fall-from-Grace for that matter.)

Seriously. Planescape: Torment is how you should do romance in a cRPG: make it one of the core strands that holds the whole thing together, something you have to deal with whether you want to or not. It has been done, therefore it can be done.

Sad thing is, for most neckbeards PS:T doesn't even count as romance because you never got to win teh secz.

I haven't seen it done right anywhere else. It becomes tacked-on, or harem anime, or fan service, or any of a bunch of other things that really isn't romance.

 

[laclongquan]

Aside from the classic example of PST: Deionarra, Fall From Grace, Annah, AND Ravel the Hag.

The Witcher series als did it well. I may not agree with Yennefer's ending (that political junkie retire to a village and sit around waiting our wandering dick return from a monster hunt? yeah , right) but it's done right. The Tris ending is more believable, also courtesy of 1-2's story.

Sengoku Rance. Aside from classic sex slave, Kenshin-chan route is classical fun.

Kessen 3. The twist of story in looking back Nobunaga's saga make it a pretty good romance.

Final Fantasy 8. Quistis' romance. I put it as a bittersweet period in the life of an elite career woman. Although if it's up to me a menage of trois with Quistis gaining eventual upperhand over Rinoa is just fine.

 

[Lhynn]

cRPGs are NO place for romance. Bottom line.

I always find it shocking how many closeted uber nerd neckbeards inhabit the codex. Romances in an RPG? Really?

Really? So this is what you want your gaming experience to be?

What the hell is wrong with you all?

Thats not romance in a book, thats a book about romance. The difference is where the focus is on the narrative.
What the fuck is wrong with you? why cant you put together a decent argument?

Anyway, this is more what romances in RPGs are or should be about.

Its just victory in one more arena.

 

[daveyd]

I think part of the reason why romances generally fail is that the underlying system is clearly evident to the player. Once you feel you can manipulate the system to get the results you want, it all breaks apart. That, and as a developer you need to put in a significant (writing) time investment, and have the talent to do so, which is why it's better avoided.

Yup. I like to see it in games tho, it just adds something else of interest, but you're right regards the system.
It'd be nice to see them mix it up more so it reflects reality better e.g. Women who like a bastard and who become more attracted to you the worse you treat them, whilst losing interest in those who are nice to them; male romance options who leave your party with an "I'll call you" gesture after they've had their way; romance options which affect your finances coz the pretty princess type can't go without the latest dress; quest lines which involve the birth of your unplanned child etc.

IIRC the "A Dance With Rogues" mod for NWN had some fucked up interesting romances. For instance,

Spoiler

you can date the guy who rapes you in the beginning of the game. Or the drow who takes you as a slave.

 

[funkadelik]

How can people fall in love with NPCs in games that only have predetermined dialogues and actions? Unless there is an actual carrot to be had from the romance, like say inheriting wealth from their family to enrich your treasury or getting a dowry that includes some bad ass enchanted armor or weaponry, romances should not be a thing in RPGs.

Let me ask those who do participate in videogame romances: What causes you to feel compelled to get involved? Do you get a sense of accomplishment?

Again, if there isn't an actual incentive during or at the end of the romance, and we are playing a virtual dating simulation just because, it is because we are lonely and autistic.

 

[Keye_]

Again, if there isn't an actual incentive during or at the end of the romance, and we are playing a virtual dating simulation just because, it is because we are lonely and autistic.

The incentive might be the extra role-playing options it brings. It adds more options to roleplaying your character.
In BG2 for example it can make sense to roleplay a character that falls in love with Jaheira or one of the other companions. Your journeys spans months, if not years. You are supposed to know them very well. If you're playing a nature-loving ranger, why not enjoy the roleplaying option that he falls in love with jaheira, your trusted companion who shares your values?

I mostly don't bother with romances, since they don't fit the characters I tend to play. But you might play a character for which it makes sense to fall in love, why not embrace the option then?

Also, what is with this obsession of incentive? All videogames can be understood as 'virtual x simulations'. And I do play them just because, just because they are fun to play. What other incentive do you need? And why does playing any simulation make someone 'lonely and autistic'?