Romance in cRPGs - is it ever good?

[Mustawd]

Because with romances, it's basically just a dating sim. Which is a very sad thing.

 

[mondblut]

So is there a cRPG that did romance right?

Fallout 3 w/ Wasteland Player.

 

[laclongquan]

How can people fall in love with NPCs in games that only have predetermined dialogues and actions? Unless there is an actual carrot to be had from the romance, like say inheriting wealth from their family to enrich your treasury or getting a dowry that includes some bad ass enchanted armor or weaponry, romances should not be a thing in RPGs.

Let me ask those who do participate in videogame romances: What causes you to feel compelled to get involved? Do you get a sense of accomplishment?

Again, if there isn't an actual incentive during or at the end of the romance, and we are playing a virtual dating simulation just because, it is because we are lonely and autistic.

You obviously never play VTM Bloodlines. Our MC got played by Velvet Velour (aka Susan) like a lovesicked puppy. We got sent out to do the quests WITHOUT pay. The rewards are only a few sappy letter and love poem. We, the mercenary and calculating players?!! Even now in our heart of hearts we hope that is just VV's tough love not that we noobie neonate got manipulated by an older vamp~
Or our enslaved Heather. Our relation is obviously drug pusher (us) and addict (Heather). But when she get killed in the Hotel our fight there become personal.

Or the classic of classic Planescape Torment. It is Deionarra got tricked by us in the past to become the romanticaly bound ghost. It is Ravel who could not refuse her love's request to make us immortal, and then split herself into several version to look over us. It is the tsundere father-con hotblooded Annah whom we seduce. It is the suppressed lust-demon Fall From Grace who is so interested in our tragic fate.

"How?" you ask? And we say it's writing and design that make us love the romances.

 

[canakin]

Mask of the Betrayer's Safiya Romance option kind of makes sense. Safiya is first drawn to you because you have a part of Akachi in you who was the lover of the Founder of whose soul Safiya herself was created. As the plot advances she starts to love you for what you are if you are good to her. It beats the usual approach in romance which is "Oh you are teh hero, now oblitarate my pussy because you are the almighty PLAYER. Also Elanee romance is OC NWN 2 is good in a way. She is basically an obsessed pedo who has been stalking you since you were a kid and she finally gets her chance to fuck you senseless.

Dirty whore.

 

[Durandal]

You obviously never play VTM Bloodlines. Our MC got played by Velvet Velour (aka Susan) like a lovesicked puppy. We got sent out to do the quests WITHOUT pay. The rewards are only a few sappy letter and love poem. We, the mercenary and calculating players?!! Even now in our heart of hearts we hope that is just VV's tough love not that we noobie neonate got manipulated by an older vamp~

The experiences themselves of voluntarily helping out MILF vampires were worth it (XP points)


Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9301I met Tapatalk

 

[abnaxus]

Only the Wapanese get it right.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

King's Bounty had a great system. Wives/Husbands were found littered across the lands, you could have one and then decide to have a different one later. They came with quests and many interesting and useful bonuses, not to mention interesting dialogue. And, yes, you could pick one that fitted your general alignment or you could pick one from a min/max perspective or one that was just the funnest:

Like marrying a frog ^ and then you had kids, which all supplied additional stats. [top middle of picture]

No sex scenes though... No influence bars... less bollocks all round really, literally and figuratively.

 

[sullynathan]

Oh ho ho, let me tell you about RPG romance.

Playing DA:O the other day. I can't stand Morrigan cause she's so bitchy, but Lelliana seemed ok. So I start giving her gifts to check out that whole option.

Then we get into this whole conversation about her past in Franc, erm, I mean Orleais. And she starts telling me about shoes. A whole in-depth convo about shoes, their accesories, heels, etc. I am starting to question myself at this point, but see, the thing was, I really needed to pick up a level because I was stuck on some hard fight in the dwarf lands, and I wasn't sure if romance options would provide experience or not, but I was desperate, since DA:O has most areas gated off so you can't grind for hard enemies. And that's why I romanced Lelliana and her shoes, my friends.

The moral being, if your RPG is really bad in many ways, romance CAN work, just like in real life, as both parties engage in it for practical purposes.

If I had the smug trump smiley, I'd rate this post

 

[Mustawd]

Oh ho ho, let me tell you about RPG romance.

Playing DA:O the other day. I can't stand Morrigan cause she's so bitchy, but Lelliana seemed ok. So I start giving her gifts to check out that whole option.

Then we get into this whole conversation about her past in Franc, erm, I mean Orleais. And she starts telling me about shoes. A whole in-depth convo about shoes, their accesories, heels, etc. I am starting to question myself at this point, but see, the thing was, I really needed to pick up a level because I was stuck on some hard fight in the dwarf lands, and I wasn't sure if romance options would provide experience or not, but I was desperate, since DA:O has most areas gated off so you can't grind for hard enemies. And that's why I romanced Lelliana and her shoes, my friends.

The moral being, if your RPG is really bad in many ways, romance CAN work, just like in real life, as both parties engage in it for practical purposes.

If I had the smug trump smiley, I'd rate this post

Spoiler

 

[Severian Silk]

Romances are okay IMO if they are done well, or even if you LARP them. For instance, Tandi in FO1.

 

[Ivan]

Morrigan romance in DA1 was good.

 

[Durian Eater]

Just to drop a tautology bomb: like anything else in a game, romance has a place if its done well. Even something like the sex cards in Witcher 1 added to the game's pulp fantasy feel, which was like a breath of fresh air after years of bloodless Tolkienoid derivatives. The romances in Witcher 3 worked equally well for reinforcing those plot elements focused around family, fatherhood and adult responsibility; for all the weird fantasy trappings, the Geralt-Yen pairing was a completely believable portrayal of an old power couple. These bits of verisimilitude increase player immersion, and that's a good thing.

Generally speaking, if we're going to spend weeks, months or years inhabiting the life of our PC, witnessing everything else of significance that happens to them, leaving out their romantic life comes across as bowdlerization. Sure, there's certain RPGs where that isn't the scenario, e.g. dungeon crawlers or other party-based games with light characterization, and there romance doesn't make much sense. But otherwise I want to see it... if it's done well, which of course it almost never is.

 

[Mustawd]

Generally speaking, if we're going to spend weeks, months or years inhabiting the life of our PC, witnessing everything else of significance that happens to them, leaving out their romantic life comes across as bowdlerization

How is that even relevant to adventuring? There are tons of information left out about PCs, but we specifically focus on romances? Please. This whole idea that "it adds to the RPing bro!" rings false and more like a convenient way to convince yourself you're not just trying to make an RPG another version of sims or something.

 

[Durian Eater]

The old "Well, we don't see them piss or shit, so why do we need to know about their personal lives?"

adventuring

How abstract are we getting here? None of the literary precursors of fantasy RPGs that revolve around the adventure or quest, from Classical myth to Germanic sagas to Arthurian romances to 19th century colonial adventures and 20th century sword-and-sorcery tales, shy away from the romantic lives of their heroes. Regardless of genre, 'getting the girl' is so typically a part of adventure narratives as to have become cliché. Yeah, it wasn't often present in earlier CRPGs, but of all the reasons I can think of as to why--narrative primitiveness in general, a desire to be 'family friendly,' stereotypical nerd discomfort with s-s-sex--none strikes me as a convincing reason to leave it out of an otherwise fully fleshed-out story.

 

[Keldryn]

I liked the Viconia and Jaheira romances in BG2. I think they were done quite well (other than Jaheira starting to flirt with you before Khalid's body has even gotten cold). Didn't feel too gamey to me, and they slowly developed along your journey.

After that, the romances in Bioware games went downhill pretty fast. Well, I liked the Bastila romance in KOTOR as it increased the stakes of a particular plot development 3/4 through the game.

The Dragon Age: Origins ones felt really gamey. Started feeling too much like maintaining relationships in The Sims (ugh).

One of the worst examples that comes to mind is Raven in Ultima IX. It's involuntary, poorly written (which goes for the whole damn game), and unconvincing. Ultima VII handled it much better with Nastassia (optional and she's a minor character not in the Avatar's party).

Most games don't do them well, so it's better to leave them out entirely than to inflict poorly written romances on players. But I'm certainly not opposed to them if they're well written and they contribute something meaningful to the game.

 

[laclongquan]

Boyo, if a muscled man (which our character general is) spend long time together with (a) girl(s) in such adventure, romance is fucking in the air. It's psychology AND physical attraction. They may not say the L word but they gonna fuck like rabbit.

If our character is a dweeb of a magician though, he's still slobbering after our attractive heroines and she might just give in to the physical needs. Ie pity fucks. Definitely not turn up nose at that opportunity. Also, the chance for romance is still there.

 

[Barnabas]

I romanced Leliana but at the end we both decided to remain friends as some of my gifts revealed that I really knew nothing about her.

Morgan is an edgy bitch who obviously would be a SJW dike in real life. I refused to have coitus with her obviously.

 

[Mustawd]

Yeah, it wasn't often present in earlier CRPGs, but of all the reasons I can think of as to why--narrative primitiveness in general, a desire to be 'family friendly,' stereotypical nerd discomfort with s-s-sex--none strikes me as a convincing reason to leave it out of an otherwise fully fleshed-out story.

This to me is a weird argument. If I ask myself, "why do I play RPGs?", my answer includes 1.) tactical and/or satisfyuing combat 2.) interesting character creation, 3.) interesting setting 4.) completing quests and winning the game. A long distant 5.) is a good story and maybe interesting NPCs if the other items are fulfilled.

Saying "there's no reason not to include XYZ" is not equivalent to saying "XYZ should be included because ABC".

And to be clear, I'm not opposed to romance never being present in a game. Hell, even Super Mario had the princess way back in the day. I'm specifically opposed to romances being presented in-game as some kind of dating sim where NPCs mainly exist for you to romance them. Where dialogue choices start becoming intrusive and it becomes obvious you're supposed to romance said NPC.

Again, if I ask myself why I play RPGs, it's certainly not some weird ass desire to get romantically involved with an NPC with a few set of dialogue options.

 

[Turok]

I hate when the stupid studios give more importance to the romance than the game, see Mass effect and dragon age, those are good examples.

 

[Lhynn]

Again, if I ask myself why I play RPGs, it's certainly not some weird ass desire to get romantically involved with an NPC with a few set of dialogue options.

Romances add to a story, they can bring lightheartedness to a dark story, they can bring tragedy, they can bring humor, they are a tool to get the player to engage with the characters. Romances arent alone in this, friendships, rivalries and other kinds of relationship can add just as much, but claiming that it isnt a good thing or that a game would be better without them comes off as someone completely deluded and ignorant would say.

I hate when the stupid studios give more importance to the romance than the game

They dont. Romances are a very tiny part of their games.

see Mass effect and dragon age, those are good examples.

They arent, they wouldnt have been any better or any worse without the romances. If you honestly believe inquisition would have been a better game if only there wasnt a bull fucking players in the ass, then you havent been paying attention.

 

[Beastro]

A huge number of the systems in RPGs are just simplified power-fantasies -- it's not like romances are particularly less realistic than, say, stronghold management or NPCs turning over their major life decisions to you even just plain character progression. Some people get excited by clicking dialogue options and watching towers sprout overnight on their stronghold; other people get excited by clicking dialogue options and having a female party member swoon. If enough people get excited by the latter system, and it seems like they do, it's hard to say that it isn't working at its intended purpose. For most players though it's probably just another progress bar, and RPG players will be excited by any progress bar no matter what window dressing is on it.

Yup, like most things with games romance has to be actually integrated into the game instead of being a tacked on gimmick.

One game notable for doing that well is the Sands of Time, albeit not a RPG.

 

[Ivan]

you're in denial

 

[sullynathan]

DA:O's romances didn't need much maintenance. All you really needed to do was buy a fuck-ton of gifts and gift every squadmate until they liked you. It was gamey though

 

[gaussgunner]

You obviously never play VTM Bloodlines. Our MC got played by Velvet Velour (aka Susan) like a lovesicked puppy. We got sent out to do the quests WITHOUT pay. The rewards are only a few sappy letter and love poem. We, the mercenary and calculating players?!! Even now in our heart of hearts we hope that is just VV's tough love not that we noobie neonate got manipulated by an older vamp~

No rewards? You can steal at least $250 from the jerkoff theater where the target works, and you get XP for killing her. But the real romance interest (if you could call it that) is Jeanette.

I don't mind a little sex in RPGs as long as it doesn't feel like a dating sim or softporn. Most leave it out, but that doesn't seem right either. Logically, it should be a major motivation behind NPCs' actions. I just don't want to get into the details.

 

[laclongquan]

Realistic! The only thing fictious about it is we dont have to think about what kind of gift~