RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

This thread is the equivalent of the hottest, most popular cheerleader girl having a long, friendly chat with the neighbourhood hobos.

Fuck you, I'm not some unwashed vagrant. You gonna finish that can of beans, btw?

 

[2house2fly]

Agreed. The spoiled owners who can't take criticism should have that power instead.

You can’t assume that every owner is a crook like Feargus for the same reason that you can’t assume that every employee is a millennial snowflake. What you can assume is that people in general are susceptible to corruption if given the proper incentives. The very fact that marxists are using Avellone to push marxist propaganda attests that. That’s what you need to consider to put things in perspective and the eventual trade-offs when supporting a political decision. The empirical data of different countries will show you that unionisation creates a corrupt class of union leaders that use marxist propaganda to obtain power and creates a series of regulations that give the workers too much power and suffocate their bosses, which in turn gives incentives to people avoid being bosses or moving overseas, which in turn means less jobs, less services and a worse live for…. the workers.

If a series of regulations were enforced overnight Avellone’s beautiful development ideas about hierarchy would be rendered useless. Leads would be always walking on eggshells and afraid of getting sued, more and more developers would behave like leaches and not getting fired, more and more publishers would be hiring people from countries which are not unionised, thus creating unemployment. In other words, all the problems we already have in other segments when unionisation takes place will also happen in game development. I don’t want to sound cold-hearted, but when all things are considered, the eventual Feargus is a small price to pay for the business of game development. If a person doesn’t want to be susceptible to the whims of someone else, be a freelance or an indie. Unionisation will not solve the problem. It will make things worse.

What the fuck man, I'm not reading all this

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

So is there a licensing fee Obsidian has to pay to Dark Rock where Feargus can siphon out whatever funds he wants? Woo boy.

It is actually very much possible. Many corporation, like Apple or Facebook does not pay taxes because they have subsidiaries who own legal rights to their IP and they "pay" (transfer money) to them for the right to use the IP.

 

[MajorMace]

posts should be voiced

 

[mibbles]

But what about the kitty pics Chris Avellone ?

 

[Rostere]

Rostere What's the third option?

Both, obviously.

I am not saying that is the case, only that it is a logical possibility given the premises in your post.

 

[Sensuki]

Also, I admit I was wrong - I now clearly see why Project Indiana needs you to save them from those evil owners who are very rude and resort to screaming their balls off when they lose an argument. Clearly having you back there with your personal qualities would be a massive improvement.

It's interesting that your one entire schtick for this thread has been being mad about collateral damage to the Obsidian employees.

I'm not entirely sure if it's because you seem to enjoy a Pillar of Eternity in your rectum or there's something more to it.

 

[2house2fly]

I do believe that such a classification is necessary, yes, and Nazis fall into that category.

Since we've derailed anyway:
The danger of doing this is that it shifts the discussion from "using violence to suppress political beliefs is wrong" to "using violence to suppress political beliefs is wrong against certain groups".

You have an easy time defending the free speech of communists, anarcho-captialists and the like now, because of the universality of wrongness of violence to suppress politics.

You'll have a much, much harder time doing it once you have to argue for the specific exclusion from the groups it's ok to suppress.

So even if you don't believe in free speech for nazis, might I suggest you consider defending it anyway (or at least not actively undermine it), for your own sake?

Liberals in America really need to table any talks about the second or first amendment. They don't seem to grasp the idea that the Republican Party controls the entire government, and at this point any changes in free speech or gun rights laws would take the form the Republicans want them to take. Personally I don't trust a fucking Republican to housesit for the weekend, never mind determine which words are allowed to come out of my mouth.

 

[Prime Junta]

It is actually very much possible. Many corporation, like Apple or Facebook does not pay taxes because they have subsidiaries who own legal rights to their IP and they "pay" (transfer money) to them for the right to use the IP.

Ayup.

Transfer pricing is one of the beautiful tricks globalised late capitalism provides corporations so they can get out of paying taxes altogether. Ask me about it and I'll tell you how it works, it's beautiful.

 

[santino27]

Fargo had a plan when I talked to him when I started working on WL2 part-time at inXile... he had a five-year plan that was very clear, made a lot of sense, and clicked. In all the years at Obsidian (no shit), there wasn't a sense of where the company should go, would go, or how it would get through the next few months.

Was Fargo's 5 year plan anything like this?

Step 1: Piss off the Codex
Step 2: Try to mend bridges with the Codex after your project does poorly
Step 3: Daisy chain kickstarters together so nobody can trace the money being spent.
Step 4: Retire.

 

[Killzig]

posts should be voiced

Do we have a secondary project going on being funded by a publisher like say take two? We could take those funds and finance some extra voicework for the thread. I'm not implying anything like that happened with Deadfire btw. Nope.

 

[Brancaleone]

Always find it funny when people categorize Codex when the reality is that if you ask 10 Codexers you'll get 10 different opinions/views

Strongly disagree, if you ask 10 Codexers you'll get 9.5 different opinions at most.

 

[Rostere]

Always find it funny when people categorize Codex when the reality is that if you ask 10 Codexers you'll get 10 different opinions/views, people around here can't agree on anything from any facet of life except turn-based>RTWP and Avellone being awesome (and even then you have PST is a visual novel retards).

That is 100% true, but it is not what people perceive. They will just see the most offensive posts on the forum and conclude that the rest agree with it if it is not banned.

That is just how you think if you don't value open debate. And a lot of people in today's society are very destructively consensus-oriented.

Spoiler

BTW I don't agree necessarily that turn-based>RTWP.

 

[HanoverF]

Chris Avellone How did Feargus let it slip that he didn't really have your back in the IP/Black Isle days? I'm guessing he was trying to wow you with his managerial technique, but I'm curious how it came about.

Or was it simply

 

[Prime Junta]

It is actually very much possible. Many corporation, like Apple or Facebook does not pay taxes because they have subsidiaries who own legal rights to their IP and they "pay" (transfer money) to them for the right to use the IP.

Ayup.

Transfer pricing is one of the beautiful tricks globalised late capitalism provides corporations so they can get out of paying taxes altogether. Ask me about it and I'll tell you how it works, it's beautiful.

Tell me, tell me!

Okay.

Suppose you're running a business that imports bananas from Brazil to sell them in France. The buy price in Brazil is 10 bucks a bushel, and the sell price in France is 100 bucks a bushel. Your operating costs are 5 bucks a bushel. So you're making a cool 85 bucks profit for every bushel of bananas that you import.

Now, because you're selling them in France, you're taxed on the profits there. France, being a sensible European country, levies a 35% tax on your profits. You, being a greedy capitalist, would rather not pay those taxes. So what to do, what to do?

Here's what: you set up a subsidiary in the Cayman Islands, and another in France. The subsidiary buys the bananas at 10 bucks a bushel, and, this is the important bit, sells them to the other subsidiary in France at 99 bucks a bushel. Then the French subsidiary will sell them on at the market price, viz. 100 bucks a bushel, and since it coincidentally has operating expenses amounting to one buck a bushel, shows no profits on its books at all. No profits, no taxes. The Cayman Islands subsidiary, OTOH, shows an 84 buck-a-bushel profit, and since the corporate taxes there are a big fat zero, that's what you end up paying. All entirely legal and above-board.

A game studio could do the same by transferring the IPRs to a subsidiary in a tax haven, and then charging the main company for use of those IPRs, so that the main company shows zero profit. Again, no profit, no tax, and the owners of the tax haven subsidiary get to do whatever they like with the money that flows there.

In the meantime, roads still need to be maintained, schools staffed, fire departments run, and the taxes come off the back of the people with no such possibilities, viz. people working on a salary.

Ain't late capitalism grand?

(And NO this isn't theoretical -- this is exactly why, say, Apple funnels most of its business through a subsidiary in Ireland, which is an EU tax haven. It's not even possible to estimate just how much tax revenue is lost through these loopholes but it's in the trillions annually for the EU alone -- and explains why stuff like income and value-added tax keeps on rising. They can't run away, see.)

 

[Flou]

Chris Avellone Isn't cost padding kinda regular deal in gaming business when publishers uses a 3rd party to create the game instead of their own developers? Same as movie studios coming up with ridicilous costs for movies so they don't have to pay % to actors, licence owners etc. on what profit the movie makes.
And it's really up to the other party to realize, they are being fucked over with the budget? Not excusing Feargus for this, but I've gotten the impression this is somewhat normal. Cost of doing business in a way.

 

[MajorMace]

taxalot you might be interested in investigating this supposition that Prime Junta is running.

 

[Prime Junta]

Hey Chris Avellone we're looking for someone to review Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire, you up for the job?

 

[Brancaleone]

It's interesting that your one entire schtick for this thread has been being mad about collateral damage to the Obsidian employees.

"Won't somebody please think of the children!"

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Re: Project Indiana and Dark Rock Industries

I don't know about the copyright, but The Outer Worlds trademark that was discovered is registered to Obsidian, not to Dark Rock. It could be that Dark Rock is only for Eternity and perhaps similar future projects.

https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/dark-rock-industries-limited-3316531/



PILLARS OF ETERNITY
Board games; Card games; Game cards; Playing cards and card games; Role playing games; Trading card games
Owned by: DARK ROCK INDUSTRIES LIMITED
Serial Number: 86483172




PILLARS OF ETERNITY
Computer game software; Computer game software downloadable from a global computer network; Computer game software for personal…
Owned by: DARK ROCK INDUSTRIES LIMITED
Serial Number: 86483177

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

Okay.

Suppose you're running a business that imports bananas from Brazil to sell them in France. The buy price in Brazil is 10 bucks a bushel, and the sell price in France is 100 bucks a bushel. Your operating costs are 5 bucks a bushel. So you're making a cool 85 bucks profit for every bushel of bananas that you import.

Now, because you're selling them in France, you're taxed on the profits there. France, being a sensible European country, levies a 35% tax on your profits. You, being a greedy capitalist, would rather not pay those taxes. So what to do, what to do?

Here's what: you set up a subsidiary in the Cayman Islands, and another in France. The subsidiary buys the bananas at 10 bucks a bushel, and, this is the important bit, sells them to the other subsidiary in France at 99 bucks a bushel. Then the French subsidiary will sell them on at the market price, viz. 100 bucks a bushel, and since it coincidentally has operating expenses amounting to one buck a bushel, shows no profits on its books at all. No profits, no taxes. The Cayman Islands subsidiary, OTOH, shows an 84 buck-a-bushel profit, and since the corporate taxes there are a big fat zero, that's what you end up paying. All entirely legal and above-board.

A game studio could do the same by transferring the IPRs to a subsidiary in a tax haven, and then charging the main company for use of those IPRs, so that the main company shows zero profit. Again, no profit, no tax, and the owners of the tax haven subsidiary get to do whatever they like with the money that flows there.

In the meantime, roads still need to be maintained, schools staffed, fire departments run, and the taxes come off the back of the people with no such possibilities, viz. people working on a salary.

Ain't late capitalism grand?

(And NO this isn't theoretical -- this is exactly why, say, Apple funnels most of its business through a subsidiary in Ireland, which is an EU tax haven. It's not even possible to estimate just how much tax revenue is lost through these loopholes but it's in the trillions annually for the EU alone -- and explains why stuff like income and value-added tax keeps on rising. They can't run away, see.)

This has little to do with capitalism itself. it has to do with the problem that we have a global economy without global legal structure.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

https://www.manta.com/c/mh1zv4k/dark-rock-industries-limited
Dark Rock Industries, Limited

Dark Rock Industries, Limited is a privately held company in Irvine, CA and is a Single Location business.

Categorized under Systems Software Development Services. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of 57798 and employs a staff of approximately 2.

Fake page with no content
http://darkrockindustries.com

The company was created just to ensure the intellectual property of Pillars. Two people? Maybe Sawyer and Parker?

 

[Prime Junta]

This has little to do with capitalism itself. it has to do with the problem that we have a global economy without global legal structure.

Oh, you mean it's not ***real*** capitalism?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Also, I admit I was wrong - I now clearly see why Project Indiana needs you to save them from those evil owners who are very rude and resort to screaming their balls off when they lose an argument. Clearly having you back there with your personal qualities would be a massive improvement.

It's interesting that your one entire schtick for this thread has been being mad about collateral damage to the Obsidian employees.

Correct, that is my entire schtick, so congratulations on discovering my super sikret agenda that I never bothered to hide in a first place. As always your astute observations and penetrating insights are second to none. Go check if some skeletons don't need kiting.

 

[Prime Junta]

No. I mean it has nothing to do *with* capitalism. If a state operating under theoretical socialism did this, it would still be a viable strategy. It is a result of a legal loophole.

Like it or not, it is a central feature of the global economic system as we know it. Really existing capitalism, if you will. Perhaps your utopian capitalism doesn't have it, but that's neither here nor there.