RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Dyspaire]

Power Word: Sawyer

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Posting in an epic thread.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I noticed the lack of his trademark style in much of the world building and plot

afaik, he designed the pantheon which is arguably the most interesting part of PoE lore

 

[Lycra Suit]

Chris what is you doing

Nobody even asked about New Vegas

Are you an undercover Obsidian employee by any chance?

 

[Bohr]

Every time it seems the thread has simmered down...

(next thing Hiver will arrive with a new account)

 

[Lycra Suit]

afaik, he designed the pantheon which is arguably the most interesting part of PoE lore

Yeah that's the part I didn't include in the 'much'. That and another thing I forgot about that was also fairly original.

 

[Projas]

Chris what is you doing

Nobody even asked about New Vegas

Are you an undercover Obsidian employee by any chance?

That would be a very bad cover imo

 

[Azarkon]

FFS man! Stop burning bridges in public!

This cannot possibly be viewed in a positive light by any prospective employer. Get off the internet for the day!

Perhaps a hint that Chris is ready to start his own company? I certainly hope so, the industry needs change.

 

[2house2fly]

This might be pointless here at the Codex, but I will share some of my experiences at Obsidian.

When my daughter had to go to the emergency room THREE times in 6 months, and I missed a lot of time, the company stood by me and told me not to worry, to put my family first.

When my wife's grandmother died suddenly, the company told me not worry, and to put my family first.

When my wife's grandfather died shortly after at Christmas time, the company told me not to worry and to put my family first.

I am currently dealing with a very serious health issue, the company has stood by my and told me to worry, but to focus on getting healthy.

This doesn't just extend to me. Many employees here have dealt with things that were even worse, and time and time again, the company has stood by them.
For example, when a fellow programmer and friend, his father died suddenly and unexpectedly, the company told him not worry, paid for his plane ticket, and got him home to his family (in another country) and told him to put his family first.

I actually could keep going, but something else speaks to me about this company: many former employees have returned to this company, myself included.

Also, people who still work here don't write reviews on Glassdoor.

I remember before you went back to Obsidian you had a thread here where you told some stories with glowing praise about working with Sawyer on NWN2 and Avellone in general, which was nice to read- fans like to imagine that the people who make their games have some affection for the workplace and the development process, after all. I don't know the full truth of what Avellone's said, but as the great [badly mispronounces Nietzsche] said, there are no facts- only interpretations.

 

[Anthony Davis]

This might be pointless here at the Codex, but I will share some of my experiences at Obsidian.

It's good to hear your perspective and be reminded that the place perhaps isn't an unmitigated den of stinking evil. Do take that advice and get better.

Even so I have to point out that these aren't the issues that Chris has been complaining about at all. A company can treat its employees well as humans, while being a complete clusterfuck about process and organisation, as well as hosting a whole bunch of other pathologies. Moreover, it can go full Mr. Hyde if a valued employee doesn't show sufficient appreciation for all the nice things the company does for him.

I don't think ANYONE at this company would claim it is perfect, it isn't. I have been vocal and consistent about problem areas here, and so have others - and btw, we weren't fired for voicing our opinions. In fact, one of the most true things I can say about this company is how hard they DO work to improve the process. They are constantly trying to improve it - if things were truly broken and hopeless, we wouldn't make it. Look at the facts, the average independent game studio doesn't even make it two years. Obsidian is about to celebrate 15 years, so clearly we are doing more right than wrong.

It's not more complicated than that.

 

[Fry]

Perhaps a hint that Chris is ready to start his own company? I certainly hope so, the industry needs change.

Eh... a guy who walked away from an equity stake with empty pockets probably shouldn't be trying to run his own company.

Good game dev and good businessman don't often mix.

 

[Goral]

many former employees have returned to this company, myself included.

So if it was all that great why did you leave in the first place? Or were you "let go" due to financial problems Obsidian had and returned ASAP?

 

[Anthony Davis]

This might be pointless here at the Codex, but I will share some of my experiences at Obsidian.

When my daughter had to go to the emergency room THREE times in 6 months, and I missed a lot of time, the company stood by me and told me not to worry, to put my family first.

When my wife's grandmother died suddenly, the company told me not worry, and to put my family first.

When my wife's grandfather died shortly after at Christmas time, the company told me not to worry and to put my family first.

I am currently dealing with a very serious health issue, the company has stood by my and told me to worry, but to focus on getting healthy.

This doesn't just extend to me. Many employees here have dealt with things that were even worse, and time and time again, the company has stood by them.
For example, when a fellow programmer and friend, his father died suddenly and unexpectedly, the company told him not worry, paid for his plane ticket, and got him home to his family (in another country) and told him to put his family first.

I actually could keep going, but something else speaks to me about this company: many former employees have returned to this company, myself included.

Also, people who still work here don't write reviews on Glassdoor.

I remember before you went back to Obsidian you had a thread here where you told some stories with glowing praise about working with Sawyer on NWN2 and Avellone in general, which was nice to read- fans like to imagine that the people who make their games have some affection for the workplace and the development process, after all. I don't know the full truth of what Avellone's said, but as the great [badly mispronounces Nietzsche] said, there are no facts- only interpretations.

I credit Avellone and Sawyer equally for saving that project - and I am eternally thankful for both of them because WITHOUT them, all of that suffering would have been wasted. They both truly salvaged that game.

I have been at Obsidian for a total of... 12 years. Longer than even my time at Netscape.

95% of the time, my time at this company is joyful and wonderful. I wake up excited to come to work, both because of the work and because of the people. I know the vast majority of the people here feel the same way.

 

[Kem0sabe]

This might be pointless here at the Codex, but I will share some of my experiences at Obsidian.

It's good to hear your perspective and be reminded that the place perhaps isn't an unmitigated den of stinking evil. Do take that advice and get better.

Even so I have to point out that these aren't the issues that Chris has been complaining about at all. A company can treat its employees well as humans, while being a complete clusterfuck about process and organisation, as well as hosting a whole bunch of other pathologies. Moreover, it can go full Mr. Hyde if a valued employee doesn't show sufficient appreciation for all the nice things the company does for him.

I don't think ANYONE at this company would claim it is perfect, it isn't. I have been vocal and consistent about problem areas here, and so have others - and btw, we weren't fired for voicing our opinions. In fact, one of the most true things I can say about this company is how hard they DO work to improve the process. They are constantly trying to improve it - if things were truly broken and hopeless, we wouldn't make it. Look at the facts, the average independent game studio doesn't even make it two years. Obsidian is about to celebrate 15 years, so clearly we are doing more right than wrong.

It's not more complicated than that.

To be fair, Obsidian only made it because they begged random interweb strangers for money to stay afloat in the form of the PoE KS...

Any company that has to beg to stay in business is not an example of good management.

 

[Durandal]

What can change the nature of Obsidian?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9301I met Tapatalk

 

[Anthony Davis]

many former employees have returned to this company, myself included.

So if it was all that great why did you leave in the first place? Or were you "let go" due to financial problems Obsidian had and returned ASAP?

It's a pretty simple story.

I wanted to get married and start a family.

California is very expensive.

I asked for a raise, which my CTO said I deserved, but wasn't able to give me because of the layoffs we just had. Instead, he gave me a glowing recommendation and I took a job in Texas.

When the time was right I returned, eagerly, to Obsidian, and at a higher salary.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I don't think ANYONE at this company would claim it is perfect, it isn't. I have been vocal and consistent about problem areas here

*sounds of Anthony Davis's health insurance documents being shredded in the background*

 

[Maculo]

This might be pointless here at the Codex, but I will share some of my experiences at Obsidian.

It's good to hear your perspective and be reminded that the place perhaps isn't an unmitigated den of stinking evil. Do take that advice and get better.

Even so I have to point out that these aren't the issues that Chris has been complaining about at all. A company can treat its employees well as humans, while being a complete clusterfuck about process and organisation, as well as hosting a whole bunch of other pathologies. Moreover, it can go full Mr. Hyde if a valued employee doesn't show sufficient appreciation for all the nice things the company does for him.

I don't think ANYONE at this company would claim it is perfect, it isn't. I have been vocal and consistent about problem areas here, and so have others - and btw, we weren't fired for voicing our opinions. In fact, one of the most true things I can say about this company is how hard they DO work to improve the process. They are constantly trying to improve it - if things were truly broken and hopeless, we wouldn't make it. Look at the facts, the average independent game studio doesn't even make it two years. Obsidian is about to celebrate 15 years, so clearly we are doing more right than wrong.

It's not more complicated than that.

To be fair, Obsidian only made it because they begged random interweb strangers for money to stay afloat in the form of the PoE KS...

Any company that has to beg to stay in business is not an example of good management.

That presumes that every issue was in management or the company's control. To me recollection, Bethesda was not easy to deal with on NV. Furthermore, owning a business is not a cake walk.

What would be preferable? They just give up and run away? I have grown weary of kickstarter, but I find that preferable to just surrendering at the sign of difficult times.

 

[Blaine]

Feel-good stories about Obsidian cupping your balls and whispering into your ear that you're handsome and a good boy are nice, but is MCA lying about getting hosed when he left Obsidian, or isn't he?

I've read all of the

posts in this thread, to my knowledge, but I don't recall seeing an answer that specific charge, only protestations that Obsidian's corporate culture isn't as rotten as Chris lets on.

Chris getting hosed is actually the main point of contention here, let's not forget. I'm sure it was totally his fault, he brought it on himself, etc., but that too is fairly irrelevant.

 

[polo]

Hope u get better Anthony Davis

 

[Anthony Davis]

This might be pointless here at the Codex, but I will share some of my experiences at Obsidian.

It's good to hear your perspective and be reminded that the place perhaps isn't an unmitigated den of stinking evil. Do take that advice and get better.

Even so I have to point out that these aren't the issues that Chris has been complaining about at all. A company can treat its employees well as humans, while being a complete clusterfuck about process and organisation, as well as hosting a whole bunch of other pathologies. Moreover, it can go full Mr. Hyde if a valued employee doesn't show sufficient appreciation for all the nice things the company does for him.

I don't think ANYONE at this company would claim it is perfect, it isn't. I have been vocal and consistent about problem areas here, and so have others - and btw, we weren't fired for voicing our opinions. In fact, one of the most true things I can say about this company is how hard they DO work to improve the process. They are constantly trying to improve it - if things were truly broken and hopeless, we wouldn't make it. Look at the facts, the average independent game studio doesn't even make it two years. Obsidian is about to celebrate 15 years, so clearly we are doing more right than wrong.

It's not more complicated than that.

To be fair, Obsidian only made it because they begged random interweb strangers for money to stay afloat in the form of the PoE KS...

Any company that has to beg to stay in business is not an example of good management.

That is not a completely accurate statement.

We had Southpark, and shortly thereafter Armored Warfare. We were not in great shape, but we weren't in danger of closing.

What PoE did do, was give us a way to create and own our own IP, and it saved the jobs of a lot people. I am not diminishing what PoE Kickstarter accomplished, it was amazing and it was critical for putting us on a road to successfully being more independent

The PoE team are heroes (at least to me), their vision and their hardwork has been an inspiration to the rest of us and it inspires the Project Indiana team as well.

 

[Azarkon]

While entertaining, a listing of Fenstermaker's many follies doesn't seem pertinent..? The guy acknowledges he's messed up, and going into detail in public comes across as lashing out because his feathers are obviously ruffled. Really now, an explanation for how "Chris wrote too much" shouldn't be pinned all on Chris is enough.

Eric caught Chris at a bad time, is my guess. Read the response that led to Chris's reply. A lot of tension even in the original exchange and now it is obvious they didn't particularly get along after Eric's handling of the writing cuts, with Eric's defensive comments earlier making it worse. Unfortunate, but then again Obsidian seems to have a track record of getting its most talented writers to leave. Avellone, Ziets, Gonzalez, Fenstermaker, and according to Chris, Travis Stout. Now they've just got Sawyer, Carrie Patel, and ? Been noticing that for a while and it's what made me think they're going to have a hard time going forward selling themselves as story people.

 

[Prime Junta]

I don't think ANYONE at this company would claim it is perfect, it isn't. I have been vocal and consistent about problem areas here, and so have others - and btw, we weren't fired for voicing our opinions. In fact, one of the most true things I can say about this company is how hard they DO work to improve the process. They are constantly trying to improve it - if things were truly broken and hopeless, we wouldn't make it. Look at the facts, the average independent game studio doesn't even make it two years. Obsidian is about to celebrate 15 years, so clearly we are doing more right than wrong.

Truly broken and hopeless is one thing. The CEO pressuring Chris to sign an NDA and non-competition clause forbidding him from working on cRPGs is another thing altogether. That shit just wack, yo.

If there's one obvious thing about this whole mess is that it's taken years to fester, and there are going to be as many truths about that process as there are people involved in it. I stand by my conflict-avoidance theory until somebody comes up with a better one. Usual everyday workplace shit happened, then built up as everybody tiptoed around it, eventually leaving Chris was in a corner by himself doing his own thing, and when realities collided things got ugly. That's what really tests your mettle though, and there Feargus faceplanted big time. No doubt some or all of it could have been avoided earlier, but them's the breaks.

I also do feel that a company as big as Obsidian -- what, 200 and counting? -- does need clear, transparent, and enforced policy about how employees are treated: what are the criteria with which their performance is assessed, what's the expected career progression, what are the perks and expectations, and so on. If it's all down to individual bosses being humane, it'll never be applied equitably, and that leads to all kinds of hidden resentments and other bullshit. How are things there in this respect?

 

[J_C]

This might be pointless here at the Codex, but I will share some of my experiences at Obsidian.

It's good to hear your perspective and be reminded that the place perhaps isn't an unmitigated den of stinking evil. Do take that advice and get better.

Even so I have to point out that these aren't the issues that Chris has been complaining about at all. A company can treat its employees well as humans, while being a complete clusterfuck about process and organisation, as well as hosting a whole bunch of other pathologies. Moreover, it can go full Mr. Hyde if a valued employee doesn't show sufficient appreciation for all the nice things the company does for him.

I don't think ANYONE at this company would claim it is perfect, it isn't. I have been vocal and consistent about problem areas here, and so have others - and btw, we weren't fired for voicing our opinions. In fact, one of the most true things I can say about this company is how hard they DO work to improve the process. They are constantly trying to improve it - if things were truly broken and hopeless, we wouldn't make it. Look at the facts, the average independent game studio doesn't even make it two years. Obsidian is about to celebrate 15 years, so clearly we are doing more right than wrong.

It's not more complicated than that.

To be fair, Obsidian only made it because they begged random interweb strangers for money to stay afloat in the form of the PoE KS...

Any company that has to beg to stay in business is not an example of good management.

That is not a completely accurate statement.

We had Southpark, and shortly thereafter Armored Warfare. We were not in great shape, but we weren't in danger of closing.

What PoE did do, was give us a way to create and own our own IP, and it saved the jobs of a lot people. I am not diminishing what PoE Kickstarter accomplished, it was amazing and it was critical for putting us on a road to successfully being more independent

The PoE team are heroes (at least to me), their vision and their hardwork has been an inspiration to the rest of us and it inspires the Project Indiana team as well.

Anthony, I'm sure you can't divulge details, but just tell us. Is this topic, and Chris' comments are a hot topic right now at Obsidian? Just a yes or no answer will suffice. Or a Yes or disagree rating of my post. :D

 

[Anthony Davis]

Feel-good stories about Obsidian cupping your balls and whispering into your ear that you're handsome and a good boy are nice, but is MCA lying about getting hosed when he left Obsidian, or isn't he?

I've read all of the

posts in this thread, to my knowledge, but I don't recall seeing an answer that specific charge, only protestations that Obsidian's corporate culture isn't as rotten as Chris lets on.

Chris getting hosed is actually the main point of contention here, let's not forget. I'm sure it was totally his fault, he brought it on himself, etc., but that too is fairly irrelevant.

And I'm not going to talk about it. I try to be a positive person, and most of the time I think I succeed.

I am also not a founder, nor am I privy to founder happenings.


But culture flows from the top, and this is overall, a very positive place to work. Not perfect, but very positive.