RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[The Great ThunThun*]

and not spouting stuff that no one here can attest.

But you can attest to every syllable MCA has written here as you witnessed it firsthand.

I'm not saying anyone's lying but we're basically taking their words for everything

Not at all. All Anthony Davis has to do is to contest the claims Chris Avellone is making. And then we have a real discussion.

Are you for real? Dude, how is asking MC F A to stop working on RPGs for even one nano-second a good thing?

It is not a good thing for gamers, but it is the difference between a normal corporate policy and Lurker King's nightmarish caricature.

It is not a normal corporate policy. It is a *bad* corporate policy outside of areas where competition is really an issue. In RPGs where technology is hardly the cutting edge, I doubt it would do any good whatsoever. If there is any truth to the NDA then it is malicious.

 

[Darth Roxor]

(((normal corporate policy)))

 

[Maculo]

And I'm not going to talk about it. I try to be a positive person, and most of the time I think I succeed.

I am also not a founder, nor am I privy to founder happenings.


But culture flows from the top, and this is overall, a very positive place to work. Not perfect, but very positive.

Is actually interesting how you guys come in this forums to share your version of the story health problem aside (and i hope this kind of problems will be solved to never return again) is clear as the sun something happened is not only Chris that left Obsidian with a bitter taste on his mouth others did. I have to admit i was not expecting obsidian to come here and post that actually surprised me.

But seems to me instead of telling your version of the story you just went here playing the violin how saint and pure Obsidian is... And sorry i am not falling for it.

Is terrible when a talent such as Chris Avellone leave a company and then do a coming out like that is a great fail most for Obsidian that could had between the hand a true talent and a legend.

Something is stinking here and i am more inclined to believe to Avellone. I am not calling you a Liar of course when family is in trouble is always a terrible thing for everyone but i have to admit.. i dislike this sad violin play instead to ear your version of the story guys.

Stinks like damage control.

I would not classify Davis' post as a "tiny violin" response to MCA drama. Instead, his response appear to be in reaction to the posts, such as the one I quoted below, that paint his colleagues as amoral psychopaths. Outside of that, I recall he said that Avellone's post was inaccurate. While that response warrants more detail, I would not call it an emotional plea.

Using Chris's debts to effectively force him out of the industry is not just business as usual; it's highly immoral behavior that is border line, or even straight up, criminal

It is business as usual. Companies are greedy and will always do everything they can to maximize their profits. They don't think about their action in ethical terms, they think only about what they can do and get away with it. Don't trust PR liars who are there to manipulate you. There is no such think as morality in business. There are more psychopaths at the CEO positions then they are in prisons.

 

[Quillon]

Not at all. All Anthony Davis has to do is to contest the claims Chris Avellone is making. And then we have a real discussion.

He said he's not privy to matters between owners. Do you want him to lie? ha?

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Not at all. All Anthony Davis has to do is to contest the claims Chris Avellone is making. And then we have a real discussion.

He said he's not privy to matters between owners. Do you want him to lie? ha?

No. I don't want him to distract from the real issue by unverifiable non-sequiturs.

Now i don't think Anthoni just posted like that to distract us and make us go off topic or derail the discussion maybe he wanted just to share his own experience but again. Corporate buisness is snake material and between corporate vague declarations and someone that is knownto have a lot of talent that tell something was wrong on the company i am inclined to take the second under more consideration.

The Ceo forcing and MCA like that on Chriss was a snake bite and is not something that should be excused. Of course Obsidian could deny and offer us prof that what Chris said was not accurate.. but they are not going to do that...

And again i repeat.. until that is not use telling me Obsidian is saving kittens... I am not falling for it.

 

[Nano]

The news is spreading! It was picked up by the German magazine PC Games:

http://www.pcgames.de/Obsidian-Ente...ingungen-pillars-of-eternity-tyranny-1255645/

 

[Quillon]

Not at all. All Anthony Davis has to do is to contest the claims Chris Avellone is making. And then we have a real discussion.

He said he's not privy to matters between owners. Do you want him to lie? ha?

No. I don't want him to distract from the real issue by unverifiable non-sequiturs.

The real REAL issue is what caused the fall out between Avellone & Sawyer. One of them is here and ain't talking about it let alone speak the other's name.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Not at all. All Anthony Davis has to do is to contest the claims Chris Avellone is making. And then we have a real discussion.

He said he's not privy to matters between owners. Do you want him to lie? ha?

No. I don't want him to distract from the real issue by unverifiable non-sequiturs.

The real REAL issue is what caused the fall out between Avellone & Sawyer. One of them is here and ain't talking about it let alone speak the other's name.

Well that is easy to figure out... One is a genious writer able to do masterpieces... The other is the kind of person that change ideas depending how the wind turns and is overobsessed with balance.

 

[Blaine]

 

[Fry]

OK so let's do a quick evaluation:

Chris thinks that processes are horribly designed and enforced, people are great but miserable and a lot of people have left. He also thinks that Obsidian is infested with nepotism and bad owner meddling.

Anthony has had the opposite experience, both personally and his impression of his colleagues.

What are the differences?

• Chris was at the owner level.
• Chris worked in writing narrative design and Anthony in programming/tech.

Conclusion: there seems to have been something very rotten in the writing department (and owner level?), But possibly not the rest of the company, since all the great writers seems to have left, some of them quite disgruntled. Obsidian used to have the very best collection of writers in the Industry, by far, and now who do they have? Newbies and nobodies? Not to shit on Carrie or anyone but they aren't exactly Avellone, Ziets, Gonzales or Stuart...

Yep. It's entirely possible that everything Chris, Anthony, Eric, and the glassdoor reviewers have said about Obsidian culture and development practices is accurate and without contradiction from their perspectives. No one here believes Obsidian hasn't had some pretty serious problems managing games in the past, so revelations about interpersonal conflicts and bad practices are hardly shocking.

Avellone's accusation of deliberate malice is another matter, and difficult to judge without hearing from other Obsidian owners. Beyond that, all we've got is "I had great process ideas and they just wouldn't listen to me!" OK? If he says so. Again, difficult to judge without hearing from other people.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Hobo Elf]

all we've got is "I had great process ideas and they just wouldn't listen to me!"

More like they wouldn't listen to him and then claimed the process idea for themselves when he wasn't looking, or did you miss that part? Some people were actively seeking to undermine Avellone.

 

[Quillon]

The other is the kind of person that change ideas depending how the wind turns

He changes a design depending on the programmable wind in no time according to Anthony Davis' NWN2 deities story.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Realizing my family issues and the debts therein, however, they did make an attempt to leverage that into a far more confining separation agreement that would remove my right to work on RPGs, and my silence on all issues that could pertain to Obsidian or any other company they were involved with or the CEO had a % in (Fig, Zero Radius, Dark Rock Industries, etc.). This included an inability to critique games I’d worked on – much of my critiques on my own games tend to be blunt, and not being able to speak to them felt unnatural to me.

Although many people ITT reacted to this impulsively, note that it's never made clear if the "attempt to leverage" was made overtly, in a one on one conversation with Chris, or it's Chris' interpretation of the separation agreement he was offered.

I'm not trying to stand as anyone's advocate, just saying.

 

[Tigranes]

ITT a bunch of random strangers who have never dated before hear little tidbits of some dude's not-perfectly-happy breakup and then ANALYSE

MCA was clearly v. unhappy with many things & left the place. You, random guy on the Internet, aren't going to ever learn the truth of the matter even if Anthony Davis or whoever else agrees (against all their better judgment) to engage in a blow-by-blow argument. You're just going to see what you want to see - the last few pages are full of people coming up with reasons to dismiss bits they don't like. The messy, suboptimal conflict-ridden decision-making around Durance/GM is a familiar story with no clear right/wrong side for anyone who's ever worked in large team projects.

The one thing that is really fucked up if true is:

The CEO pressuring Chris to sign an NDA and non-competition clause forbidding him from working on cRPGs is another thing altogether.

Where did PJ get this? Did I miss the bit in the interview? I only saw the bit quoted above by AwesomeButton. I don't really care about the 'silence' clause - given how he's shitstirring in a billion interviews these days, it seems like he needed one - but the 'inability to work on RPGs' is both vague and terrifying.

(Also, yes, yes, I know the Codex loves its daytime dramas, god forbid anyone try and tell you to refrain)

 

[fantadomat]

OK so let's do a quick evaluation:

Chris thinks that processes are horribly designed and enforced, people are great but miserable and a lot of people have left. He also thinks that Obsidian is infested with nepotism and bad owner meddling.

Anthony has had the opposite experience, both personally and his impression of his colleagues.

What are the differences?

• Chris was at the owner level.
• Chris worked in writing narrative design and Anthony in programming/tech.

Conclusion: there seems to have been something very rotten in the writing department (and owner level?), But possibly not the rest of the company, since all the great writers seems to have left, some of them quite disgruntled. Obsidian used to have the very best collection of writers in the Industry, by far, and now who do they have? Newbies and nobodies? Not to shit on Carrie or anyone but they aren't exactly Avellone, Ziets, Gonzales or Stuart...

Well there is not much meddling to be done in the programming part,at least it is needed some tech knowledge. While in writing everyone could have an opinion. Being newbie or nobodies is not a bad thing,writing poorly is. I don't care if you know the writers name as long as the writing is on a level. Everyone have to start from somewhere after all. I still will give obsidian shit if the writing is bad in poe2.

 

[Sentinel]

And to think that this is only part 1 of the interview

When's part 2 releasing?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Where did PJ get this? Did I miss the bit in the interview? I only saw the bit quoted above by AwesomeButton. I don't really care about the 'silence' clause - given how he's shitstirring in a billion interviews these days, it seems like he needed one - but the 'inability to work on RPGs' is both vague and terrifying.

It's not in the interview, go to MCA's first lengthy post halfway through page 8.

 

[Fry]

ITT a bunch of random strangers who have never dated before hear little tidbits of some dude's not-perfectly-happy breakup and then ANALYSE

You, random guy on the Internet, aren't going to ever learn the truth of the matter even if Anthony Davis or whoever else agrees (against all their better judgment) to engage in a blow-by-blow argument.

Obviously. Ultimately, life is pointless. Yet here we are.

but the 'inability to work on RPGs' is both vague and terrifying.

And also, as I've said like six times, totally unenforceable, so who gives a fuck? If Avellone took it seriously without having a 10 min conversation with a lawyer, that's on him.

 

[Hobo Elf]

And to think that this is only part 1 of the interview

When's part 2 releasing?

Early May.

 

[Quillon]

And to think that this is only part 1 of the interview

When's part 2 releasing?

1 week before Cainarsky game releases.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Non-compete clause is the least controversial news out of this whole fiasco. I'm not sure why is it generating so much butthurt in these comments, when it is just good businesses practice. You can't have a guy who has so much in-depth knowledge of inner workings of the company joining the competition within 24 hours.

These clauses are increasingly common nowadays and they rarely last longer then 6 to 12 months. It really is not that big of a deal.

Although, to the best of my knowledge, a non-compete clause is usually tied to a generous severance package. You can't work but we will give you a bucket of dolla for the time you have to sit on the sidelines. It's a fair deal then. So how does Chris go from being a co-owner, co-founder and practically a public face of the company, to having no money, no insurance AND a non-compete on top of it all, I have no idea, but it boggles the mind.

 

[AwesomeButton]

ITT a bunch of random strangers who have never dated before hear little tidbits of some dude's not-perfectly-happy breakup and then ANALYSE

Not that I disagree, but... after saying this, you go on and give us your analysis? Which is more relevant why exactly? You dated yesterday and now have a rush of self-confidence, or what?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Where did PJ get this? Did I miss the bit in the interview? I only saw the bit quoted above by AwesomeButton. I don't really care about the 'silence' clause - given how he's shitstirring in a billion interviews these days, it seems like he needed one - but the 'inability to work on RPGs' is both vague and terrifying.

Yes you did, as well as probably other things. I alone have quoted that part at least two times now:

Realizing my family issues and the debts therein, however, they did make an attempt to leverage that into a far more confining separation agreement that would remove my right to work on RPGs, and my silence on all issues that could pertain to Obsidian or any other company they were involved with or the CEO had a % in (Fig, Zero Radius, Dark Rock Industries, etc.). This included an inability to critique games I’d worked on – much of my critiques on my own games tend to be blunt, and not being able to speak to them felt unnatural to me.

 

[fantadomat]

Non-compete clause is the least controversial news out of this whole fiasco. I'm not sure why is it generating so much butthurt in these comments, when it is just good businesses practice. You can't have a guy who has so much in-depth knowledge of inner workings of the company joining the competition within 24 hours.

These clauses are increasingly common nowadays and they rarely last longer then 6 to 12 months. It really is not that big of a deal.

Although, to the best of my knowledge, a non-compete clause is usually tied to a generous severance package. You can't work but we will give you a bucket of dolla for the time you have to sit on the sidelines. It's a fair deal then. So how does Chris go from being a co-owner, co-founder and practically a public face of the company, to having no money, no insurance AND a non-compete on top of it all, I have no idea, but it boggles the mind.

Woman/women?