RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Abu Antar]

If he wanted,he would have posted in obsidian forums and not here. Maybe MCA does like it here?! Also i don't see why Infinitron would go around posting it in other forums. Actually i wouldn't very pleased if it was done to me.

I can't post to the Obsidian forums, they locked me out of my account after my departure.

When I realized this, I asked them to at least delete my account since I can't access it, and they said that was impossible to do (or Darren Monahan did, anyway).

I do realize they were trying to keep up appearances that everyone was getting along (which is something they've kept doing), but it misrepresents my actual role and ability to participate in the community and really, I just want my account deleted. It seems like a simple thing to do, so I don't know the logistics of why it's impossible.

Out of curiosity, are whatever NDA they put in front of you always legally binding? I know this is a stupid question, but it seems that some NDAs actually have terms and conditions that actually go against actual laws. It also seems like other basic rules were broken. If I were you, I'd probably check with a lawyer. It seems like companies in the US can screw over employees way too easily. I'm not naive enough to think that this shit doesn't happen in every country around the world. Honestly, people in the gaming industry might not have its own union, but couldn't programmers join a union that fits them, writers join a writers union, etc? Also, weren't you an owner? I'm surprised that you got nothing from the deal. Even if you were fired, as an owner, I thought compensation was in place.

When you talk about upper management, is it Feargus that you are talking about? Is there someone up there that you did get along with? Also, it seems like you didn't get along with them for quite some time. Did you ever think about quitting on your own terms?

 

[Azarkon]

Technology industry unions? You underestimate the degree to which Silicon Valley can replace the vast majority of US technology workers with foreign imports. For every programmer who might want to form an union, there's ten third world immigrants who'll take his place for half the pay.

 

[Urthor]

If he wanted,he would have posted in obsidian forums and not here. Maybe MCA does like it here?! Also i don't see why Infinitron would go around posting it in other forums. Actually i wouldn't very pleased if it was done to me.

I can't post to the Obsidian forums, they locked me out of my account after my departure.

When I realized this, I asked them to at least delete my account since I can't access it, and they said that was impossible to do (or Darren Monahan did, anyway).

I do realize they were trying to keep up appearances that everyone was getting along (which is something they've kept doing), but it misrepresents my actual role and ability to participate in the community and really, I just want my account deleted. It seems like a simple thing to do, so I don't know the logistics of why it's impossible.

IPBoards 3 did make it actually impossible to do that without deleting someone's post backlog on the forum, which is generally seen pretty badly. You can either ban someone, or remove them and all their posts ever, but you can't delete their account details so they can't log in and leave their old posts up under the name of their old account because the database is dependant on those fields etc.

edit: oh apparently you can and their posts come up as from deleted user, but it deletes their email and IP records which screws with the spam filter so most forum admins never, ever do it.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

From the other Pillars thread:

Wake me up when you find a game studio with more than a hundred employees that treats those employees like human beings. Fucking over founders who leave the company is the oldest trick in the silicon valley playbook. There's nothing uniquely horrible about this. Obsidian offered Chris some kind of payday in exchange for signing a noncompete agreement; he chose not to take the deal. Should Obsidian have just given him some money with no strings purely in the interest of fairness? THAT would be unusual behavior. Businesses rarely reward people for leaving unless they're contractually required to.

tl;dr It's silly to return Deadfire over this. nearly every double or triple A studio is run by a scumbag like Feargus. If you don't want to reward bad CEO behavior, you're going to be stuck playing RPG Maker titles for the rest of your life.

You know that there is decline when new players think there is nothing special about one of the giants of the industry being treated like a dog by their own studio, and will continue to support them because they have better graphics.

 

[Alpan]

As my eyes glide over the cascading, rhythmic carriage returns of his writings, adorned by Nihilus' sharpest of red and black hues; I cannot help but exclaim my conviction, growing with each subsequent post: MCA is having so much fun, it's totally perverse, and he knows it.

 

[Roguey]

Avellone is just a white male and he hasn't even been sexually harassed.

That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

It's slowing down though. We need Josh here to explain what's what.

theyre responding to avellones posts by calling rope kid a cuck with polluted impure mixed germanic blood

tfw your great-grandma was hungarian

That's the best you're gonna get. Incidentally, it figures that goons and badgamers focus almost solely on Chaotic Heretic's post, a guy who was obnoxious enough to get marked by a Dumbfuck! tag. By the way and for the record for lurking goons and ex-goons, he's an Indian from India.

 

[Sentinel]

From the other Pillars thread:

Wake me up when you find a game studio with more than a hundred employees that treats those employees like human beings. Fucking over founders who leave the company is the oldest trick in the silicon valley playbook. There's nothing uniquely horrible about this. Obsidian offered Chris some kind of payday in exchange for signing a noncompete agreement; he chose not to take the deal. Should Obsidian have just given him some money with no strings purely in the interest of fairness? THAT would be unusual behavior. Businesses rarely reward people for leaving unless they're contractually required to.

tl;dr It's silly to return Deadfire over this. nearly every double or triple A studio is run by a scumbag like Feargus. If you don't want to reward bad CEO behavior, you're going to be stuck playing RPG Maker titles for the rest of your life.

You know that there is decline when new players think there is nothing special about one of the giants of the industry being treated like a dog by their own studio, and will continue to support them because they have better graphics.

Kyl Von Kull? More like Kyl Von Kuck

 

[Brancaleone]

The only thing for MCA to do at this point is an epic payback to Obsidian in the form of a Pathfinder: Kingmaker to end all RPG's.

I'm not at all talking out of shameless self-interest, mind you.

 

[Latro]

ITT a bunch of random strangers who have never dated

how did you know??

 

[Sentinel]

Avellone is just a white male and he hasn't even been sexually harassed.

That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

It's slowing down though. We need Josh here to explain what's what.

theyre responding to avellones posts by calling rope kid a cuck with polluted impure mixed germanic blood

tfw your great-grandma was hungarian

That's the best you're gonna get. Incidentally, it figures that goons and badgamers focus almost solely on Chaotic Heretic's post, a guy who was obnoxious enough to get marked by a Dumbfuck! tag. By the way and for the record for lurking goons and ex-goons, he's an Indian from India.

"immunity to not winning"
*begs people to save his company*

 

[Big Wrangle]

Damn I look away and we nearly hit 50 pages, shit's still going strong. Hopefully some press picks up on this so that we can make it to 200 pages.

 

[Roguey]

"immunity to not winning"
*begs people to save his company*

Winning is winning, no matter how it's accomplished.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

If you want to speed up the process make a youtube video there is nothing that pissed toxic companies than youtube videos.

 

[FreeKaner]

That's the best you're gonna get. Incidentally, it figures that goons and badgamers focus almost solely on Chaotic Heretic's post, a guy who was obnoxious enough to get marked by a Dumbfuck! tag. By the way and for the record for lurking goons and ex-goons, he's an Indian from India.

What a bigoted bunch to assume we are all fucking white males here. What site is that?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

That's the best you're gonna get. Incidentally, it figures that goons and badgamers focus almost solely on Chaotic Heretic's post, a guy who was obnoxious enough to get marked by a Dumbfuck! tag. By the way and for the record for lurking goons and ex-goons, he's an Indian from India.

itt codex defends itself from communities either too autistic or too stick up the ass to ever like us anyway. who cares what reddit or an online hungarian basket weaving club thinks? let them whinge about how not like them we are and ban the shit out of each other for whatever dumb reason they come up with this week. I for one am proud to be different.

 

[Fairfax]

We had Southpark, and shortly thereafter Armored Warfare. We were not in great shape, but we weren't in danger of closing.

Feargus considered it a real danger for a while:

By June 2012, many at Obsidian were sick of failing. Some had already left the studio, while others were considering calling it quits. Those who weren’t making South Park felt like they were stuck in development purgatory, moving from pitch to pitch with no real work in sight. “Nothing was going anywhere,” said Brennecke. “Even the pitches we were doing, I don’t think anyone was really into.” Feargus Urquhart started having breakfast meetings with the company’s lawyer to talk about what it might look like if they had to pull the plug, in case they couldn’t find another project by the time they’d finished South Park.

I'm only on page 23 but I really cannot wait for the twist when it is revealed that Fairfax and MCA are the same person.

I seem to remember Fairfax used to have a different avatar.

This one?

MCA would never use that one, he hates Nihilus with a face:

Don't call Darth Nihilus "the face" of KOTOR2 around Chris Avellone, though. He doesn't like that. "One pet peeve I've always had about the Nihilus [art] that sometimes people use is there was never intended to be any hint of what was beyond the mask, so every time I see the Nihilus picture and there's the outline of his nose behind the mask, I freak out! It's supposed to be a void - that's the metaphor of what he is, so it drives me crazy when they try and imply that he's human."

A small voice, that of lead concept artist Brian Menze, interjects. He drew that nose for a magazine cover way back when. "Chris didn't like it but he went soft on me that day and let it go," he says. "I wish he would have stopped me because we probably wouldn't be in this predicament any more if he had." Nevertheless, Menze earned lasting prestige by creating Nihilus, a concept created and greenlit in all of 15 minutes. "That character has gone on to be bigger than the game we created, and I'm very thankful for that."

 

[Latro]

Anthony's post just makes Obsidian look worse, how do you go from being a class-act to locking a man out of his work forum account?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss

If you refuse to buy products from companies that treat their people like shit, you're going to starve to death (probably naked and with no electricity). There is nothing unique about what Feargus did, except that he targeted someone who's beloved around here. Is it wrong to treat people like this? Of course it is. But that's the system we live in. Frankly, considering the number of employers who've been accused of rape/rapey conduct lately, it's refreshing to see an executive who only tries to screw his people financially.

I can't imagine why any of you would expect a profit seeking enterprise to behave in a fair or benign way. Chris has every right to be angry, as do the billions of other people who get fucked by capitalism on a daily basis. Call for revolution if it bothers you so much; calling for a boycott just seems silly compared to the magnitude of the problem.

 

[Mustawd]

Out of curiosity, are whatever NDA they put in front of you always legally binding? I know this is a stupid question, but it seems that some NDAs actually have terms and conditions that actually go against actual laws.

By definition, a contract that is illegal is automatically invalid.

Here's an example from a CPA exam practice test.

 

[Alpan]

Anthony's post just makes Obsidian look worse, how do you go from being a class-act to locking a man out of his work forum account?

You do it by hating that man's -- and only that specific man's -- guts. It's the only explanation. Now we just need to find out why. Mr. Avellone?

 

[Roguey]

Anthony's post just makes Obsidian look worse, how do you go from being a class-act to locking a man out of his work forum account?

Employees can only log into their OBSIDIAN tagged forum accounts on-site. Seems silly and excessive to me, but it's how they set it up.

 

[Sentinel]

I can't imagine why any of you would expect a profit seeking enterprise to behave in a fair or benign way.

Probably because they'd known each other since like 1995. You'd expect some courtesy.

Frankly, considering the number of employers who've been accused of rape/rapey conduct lately, it's refreshing to see an executive who only tries to screw his people financially.

It's not just the matter of finances but also the fact that they leveraged MCA's mom having cancer and undergoing treatment (and the corresponding financial responsibilites MCA had) to try to get a better deal for them.

Chris has every right to be angry, as do the billions of other people who get fucked by capitalism on a daily basis.

As you rightly point out, it's capitalism at work. However, every blade has 2 edges - if people choose to think twice before buying an Obsidian game 'cause the management are proper right cunts (and the games have been shit as of late anyway), they're in their plain right. It's capitalism after all.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss

If you refuse to buy products from companies that treat their people like shit, you're going to starve to death (probably naked and with no electricity). There is nothing unique about what Feargus did, except that he targeted someone who's beloved around here. It it wrong to treat people like this? Of course it is. But that's the system we live in. Frankly, considering the number of employers who've been accused of rape/rapey conduct lately, it's refreshing to see an executive who only tries to screw his people financially.

I can't imagine why any of you would expect a profit seeking enterprise to behave in a fair or benign way. Chris has every right to be angry, as do the billions of other people who get fucked by capitalism on a daily basis. Call for revolution if it bothers you so much; calling for a boycott just seems silly compared to the magnitude of the problem.

Oh everyone does that then we come bitching on the codex how game developers are just a joke.... Meanwhile we say oh well this is how it works when someone with talent get stonewalled and blackmailed....

The fact that most company act like this doesn't mean is a nice thing to do or that we should accept it because is the norm... That is slave mentality.

 

[Jenkem]

RPGCODEX dev team when? Cleveland Mark Blakemore, Chris Avellone & MLMarkland

the DREAM TEAM

 

[Blaine]

Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss

If you refuse to buy products from companies that treat their people like shit, you're going to starve to death (probably naked and with no electricity).

Computer games are luxury entertainment, as opposed to shelter, necessities, or staples. Refusing to buy luxury items from bad companies is a perfectly viable and smart move.

Unlike most, if I decide that I don't want to do business with a developer, I stop buying their games. People occasionally joke that I'll be playing them anyway because it's so common, but in actuality, I don't.