RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Fry]

The devs post in a discord? Why was it not mentioned earlier? There's bound to be some amount of reaction to MCA's latest posts especially with the spontaneity and false sense of fleetingness offered by a chatroom.

It was discussed. No devs participated.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I'm sure they'll let him create a new account with normal permissions to interact with the user base like just another regular Joe.

They probably wouldn't. Like I've said, I am deeply troubled and shocked by this development.

What's the next revelation, Feargus stole his cactus?

​

 

[Imoens pet]

It just strikes me as kind of silly to use "treated Chris Avellone well/poorly" as the main criteria for judging the moral character of a given company. I can understand boycotting companies that kill people or fund your political opponents or violate some religious commandment like dealing in pork products. But as much as I love his work, the ethical treatment of Chris Avellones is pretty far down on my list of things to get up in arms about.

I mean, is Chris himself even calling for a boycott?

Meh who cares, No one single company is entitled to your money. If you don't want to buy their product, that is your prerogative. Your acting as if the company is going to go into complete bankruptcy. Yes they will lose a couple of preorders or whatever, but what is that compared to the millions who will buy the game?

 

[Roguey]

I mean, is Chris himself even calling for a boycott?

As he's already mentioned, he's all for doing anything that doesn't help the owners make any money. The Deadfire developers have already been paid, so if Deadfire sales suffer, it's the owners who hurt the most. Maybe there's lay-offs, but a talented bunch can get back on their feet soon enough and freeing them from the yoke of Obsidian is arguably doing them a favor (though they're likely just trading one bad master for another).

 

[ga♥]

MCA said many times he likes many of the devs at Obsidian. This is pretty much against your scenario Roguey. He just said he doesn't want to have an active part in that anymore (helping them making money)... doesn't mean he wants layoffs and Obsidian baknkrupt.

 

[Blaine]

It just strikes me as kind of silly to use "treated Chris Avellone well/poorly" as the main criteria for judging the moral character of a given company.

It's not my only criterion. You were arguing with me in the current Deadfire megathread about the dangerhair fan fiction writers they've been hiring, remember? Then there are my criticisms of the writing and game design decisions, etc.

Anyway, I'm not calling for a boycott, either. It's up to each individual whether or not they want to buy Obsidian's games. I'm just here for the fuckin' show.

 

[Lycra Suit]

I don't think MCA has any hidden motives other than just venting off. It's a pretty normal thing to do to go and seek as many witnesses as possible when something shitty happens to you.

I got a parking ticket once and wrote a massive wall of text on another forum as a result. That's not too far off.

 

[Azarkon]

Yes, after reading this thread, I absolutely can't imagine why Obsidian might be leery of Chris posting on their forums. >_>

(but deleting it would be nice I guess)

Chris... Or any former employee.

It's not the people still working there that are going to bad mouth the company; it's the people that have left.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I mean, is Chris himself even calling for a boycott?

As he's already mentioned, he's all for doing anything that doesn't help the owners make any money. The Deadfire developers have already been paid, so if Deadfire sales suffer, it's the owners who hurt the most. Maybe there's lay-offs, but a talented bunch can get back on their feet soon enough and freeing them from the yoke of Obsidian is arguably doing them a favor (though they're likely just trading one bad master for another).

Not quite what he said. The actual quote:

"Also, realizing there was no restitution for the issues mentioned, I made a promise to myself that nothing I would do would ever cause Feargus and the owners any further financial gain. If my silence was that important to them, then there's no need to be silent because that right hadn't been signed away. Simply put, I like the developers at Obsidian very much, I work and correspond with many of those who are there or have left, and I would work with the developers again. I do feel upper management at Obsidian has serious flaws that need to be addressed, and I stand by that statement."

They owe him money, so he's not going to let them profit off of him anymore--fair enough. That's not the same as saying he favors anything that hurts their financial interests. Chris is a big boy. If he wants a boycott, he can call for a boycott.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I'm sure it was totally his fault, he brought it on himself, etc.,

Stupid sexy Chris Avellone, dressing like a whore.

 

[Azarkon]

MCA said many times he likes many of the devs at Obsidian. This is pretty much against your scenario Roguey. He just said he doesn't want to have an active part in that anymore (helping them making money)... doesn't mean he wants layoffs and Obsidian baknkrupt.

I think it's fair to say that Chris wouldn't want developers laid off, but his dislike of the upper management at Obsidian has never been more obvious. The fact that he promised himself that he wouldn't contribute to any effort that makes the owners money again, shows how deep this all goes.

I've personal experience in a similar business break up, and yeah, it gets nasty. It turns out humans can become exceptionally terrible, when enough money is involved. Family members can turn against one another, long-term friendships can be broken over night, etc. The lesson is to never go into business with people you care about, or at the minimum, to ensure that you have the same bank account, in case you do.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Hey Chris, when Eric talked about some members of management having personality disorders, who do you think he was referring to?

Follow up: which personality disorders?

I know the people he’s referring to, but it was lame to bring it up and would be lame to add to it, and it doesn’t affect their performance.

That’s the last thing I’ll say about it, it shouldn’t have been said in the first place.

 

[conan_edw]

Hey Chris, Now that you have burned all of your bridges isn't time to finish Arcanum

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Jesus, I assumed it was an armchair diagnosis and not real mental illness.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Hey Chris, Now that you have burned all of your bridges isn't time to finish Arcanum

Do a retarded half-ogre playthrough. It's the least amount of work and the most amount of laughs.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Sounds like Chris Avellone has more personal experience with super-villainy now than when he wrote the article on the subject:

"Essential Villainy: What Every Supervillain Needs - Character" by Chris Avellone in Dragon Magazine #207 July 1994
"For Truth and Justice: An Adventure Checklist for Superhero GMs" by Chris Avellone in Dragon Magazine #214 February 1995

 

[Blaine]

I don't think MCA has any hidden motives other than just venting off. It's a pretty normal thing to do to go and seek as many witnesses as possible when something shitty happens to you.

Maybe so, but it's one Hell of a torpedo anyway.

Calm down, pedants. I don't mean to imply that OBSIDIAN WILL LITERALLY BE SUNK TOMORROW. On the contrary, the great majority of their customers are mouth-breathing Biodrones and popamole lovers; even many who are not won't stop buying their games over this incident. I don't doubt Deadfire will sell.

 

[Azarkon]

It'll sell, because as we've learned from Electronic Arts, no matter how bad a company treats its employees, consumers don't give a fuck as long as they can get their fix.

But business reputation is a different story. Talented people may choose to avoid the company, knowing what Chris went through and the management drama. Indeed, Chris, though he won't admit it, is a super star of sorts among game writers, and we've read, in the past, people who joined Obsidian specifically to work with him. Also, with Chris turning on the company, it'll become impossible for them to use his legacy and reputation in any way to convince publishers and investors to finance their projects, and there will be sales losses from that, as well.

 

[The Wall]

Hey Chris, when Eric talked about some members of management having personality disorders, who do you think he was referring to?

Follow up: which personality disorders?

I know the people he’s referring to, but it was lame to bring it up and would be lame to add to it, and it doesn’t affect their performance.

That’s the last thing I’ll say about it, it shouldn’t have been said in the first place.

So it's more then one person, they are at the highest positions in company and it's clinically diagnosed?

It's insane. Quite literally too. That might be last thing you said about it but it certainly won't be last thing said about it.

This might even be the biggest nuke dropped so far. If at mid tier gaming companies owners have personality disorders then what about EA's owners and other big players? Are theiy Hanibal Lecters? Would explain MANY things in industry...

 

[Imoens pet]

It'll sell, because as we've learned from Electronic Arts, no matter how bad a company treats its employees, consumers don't give a fuck as long as they can get their fix.

But business reputation is a different story. Talented people may choose to avoid the company, knowing what Chris went through and the management drama. Indeed, Chris, though he won't admit it, is a super star of sorts among game writers, and we've read, in the past, people who joined Obsidian specifically to work with him. Also, with Chris turning on the company, it'll become impossible for them to use his legacy and reputation in any way to convince publishers and investors to finance their projects, and there will be sales losses from that, as well.

It's too early to tell if this will cause any damage.

 

[Blaine]

It'll sell, because as we've learned from Electronic Arts, no matter how bad a company treats its employees, consumers don't give a fuck as long as they can get their fix.

People who still work at EA don't write reviews on Glassdoor!

 

[2house2fly]

Avellone is just a white male and he hasn't even been sexually harassed.

That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

It's slowing down though. We need Josh here to explain what's what.

theyre responding to avellones posts by calling rope kid a cuck with polluted impure mixed germanic blood

tfw your great-grandma was hungarian

That's the best you're gonna get. Incidentally, it figures that goons and badgamers focus almost solely on Chaotic Heretic's post, a guy who was obnoxious enough to get marked by a Dumbfuck! tag. By the way and for the record for lurking goons and ex-goons, he's an Indian from India.

Hey! I post on that forum too!! Chris Avellone, Eric Fenstermaker, care to comment?!

 

[Roguey]

Hey! I post on that forum too!! Chris Avellone, Eric Fenstermaker, care to comment?!

A couple of 'em are upset that I'm screencapping the secret orb posting lair. Look at me, introducing new people to Rogueyposting.

I'll concede I'm not "knows the word budget of Deadfire" good.

 

[Glaucon]

Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss

If you refuse to buy products from companies that treat their people like shit, you're going to starve to death (probably naked and with no electricity). There is nothing unique about what Feargus did, except that he targeted someone who's beloved around here. Is it wrong to treat people like this? Of course it is. But that's the system we live in. Frankly, considering the number of employers who've been accused of rape/rapey conduct lately, it's refreshing to see an executive who only tries to screw his people financially.

I can't imagine why any of you would expect a profit seeking enterprise to behave in a fair or benign way. Chris has every right to be angry, as do the billions of other people who get fucked by capitalism on a daily basis. Call for revolution if it bothers you so much; calling for a boycott just seems silly compared to the magnitude of the problem.

tldr, decency is bourgeois hypocrisy, revolution now

 

[agris]

You're generous in assuming that the VPN program they use to access the office network from their work laptops off-site doesn't also trigger the intranet IP requirements to log into the Obsidian-tagged accounts.

Back during the Project Eternity days, when Obsidian forum-goers got very angry at Josh for always posting on Something Awful and almost never at the official boards, this was the reason given. He said he can't post there at home.

This partially explains why all the Obsidian devs congregate on the fan discord instead of the forums as well.

Yeah, that's plausible. I was more connected to the OE world back when that discussion was happening actually. I acutely remember thinking "what a convenient excuse to avoid interacting with a vapid fanbase".

It still stands today; a convenient excuse to avoid interacting with people that don't dig deeper than surface level when needed, and who tunnel to the other side of the world when you want a simple soil sample.

All conjecture of course.