Interview RPG Codex Interview: Might & Magic X - Legacy

[Grunker]

Yes but giving that much money for a game, moreso a preorder, is a statement of some sort (at least for me).

It's a statement no one hears, and even if they heard it they wouldn't understand it.

As with most political votes in biparty democracies

Don't you think Ubi heard it a bit for M&M X?

Ubi saw an opportunity in an untapped market.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I don't see the correlation between DRM and DLC. M&M X hasn't mentioned anything about DLC, why would UPlay's presence therefore dissuade you from enjoying it other than the conscientious decision?

Well, my name should be a hint of that.

But the analogy to DLC was that people used to think DLC was a harmless trend that wasn't going to ruin any games. It's just horse armor right? But it has since ruined some potentially good games. DRM is the same way. Though arguably we've already seen quite a few games utterly ruined by their DRM scheme at this point.

I mean, you can wait until MMXI comes out and requires online 24/7 and a buttplug dongle before you decide to not buy in, but then the game has already been ruined, and you might have to wait until MMXV before they scale it back to where it is now. You can froth and send emails all you want, but you already paid them to make the DRM they're using on you now. What right have you to complain? You knew this was the direction they were headed in, and you fully supported them.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't see the correlation between DRM and DLC. M&M X hasn't mentioned anything about DLC, why would UPlay's presence therefore dissuade you from enjoying it other than the conscientious decision?

Well, my name should be a hint of that.

But the analogy to DLC was that people used to think DLC was a harmless trend that wasn't going to ruin any games. It's just horse armor right? But it has since ruined some potentially good games. DRM is the same way. Though arguably we've already seen quite a few games utterly ruined by their DRM scheme at this point.

I mean, you can wait until MMXI comes out and requires online 24/7 and a buttplug dongle before you decide to not buy in, but then the game has already been ruined, and you might have to wait until MMXV before they scale it back to where it is now. You can froth and send emails all you want, but you already paid them to make the DRM they're using on you now. What right have you to complain? You knew this was the direction they were headed in, and you fully supported them.

Except Ubisoft has already tried always online. They backed down from it. There's no "trend" or "direction" here. They're just a Steam clone now.

 

[Crispy]

Dude, all I'm reading here is one giant slippery slope.

I guess I can see your point but can you show me any evidence whatsoever that M&M X is doomed to go the way of MMO's or other truly compromised games via DLC/PtW promotions? I'll give you an example of a game that already uses UPlay and that doesn't suffer from its presence at all: Far Cry 3. Say what you will about the game itself but UPlay is simply a companion to it, neither adding to or subtracting from its content. There are many other examples, like Bee's.

You're worried about the future of the industry. I get that. But you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, as they say, and potentially missing out on what may turn out to be one of the great comeback stories in the long history of computer roleplaying games. All over a theory.

 

[FeelTheRads]

potentially missing out on what may turn out to be one of the great comeback stories in the long history of computer roleplaying games.

All over a theory.

I think he's just missing a theory over a theory. No big fucking deal.

Plus, this is why we got to where we got. Because of people who just can't say no because "OMG WHAT IF I MISS SOMETHING AWESOMU!??!"

 

[Damned Registrations]

Well, as I mentioned earlier, I think Limbic deserves the cash more than ubi deserves to be spited. Assuming the game isn't a crock of shit, I'll pay for it. I'm just explaining the argument here. For someone who doesn't give a fuck about MM as much or is more vehement about their hating on DRM, I could see why this kind of DRM might be enough to put them off.

 

[Crispy]

All the information we've seen from M&M X so far is no theory. It's tangible, real evidence that this game is going to be very pleasing to fans of the original series. It looks like a faithful homage.

Would you rather say no to it simply because you're pissed off that its publisher made some sort of attempt, pathetic as it may seem to you, to protect its investment, than to realize that all of this huffing and puffing over your rights as a gamer and the holy crusade against rights management is at its core silly at best and completely counterproductive at worst?

DRM is here to stay. If clients such as UPlay were demonstrably intrusive, or negatively affecting of the development of good RPG's, or anything other than just a minor annoyance, then I'd be right there with you. But they're not. I used to think Steam was fucking horrible, and I still don't really like it, but I now realize that it has served as a necessary vehicle for some decent entertainment for me over the years so I'm not going to burn it down.

We all have choices. Skip M&M X if you want. I don't really care. The point is, however, that the developer does, and they need your money. Pirate it and they don't get it. That, in the end, means no more RPG goodness. For that, I would blame people like you, Rads.

 

[GarfunkeL]

You're worried about the future of the industry. I get that. But you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, as they say, and potentially missing out on what may turn out to be one of the great comeback stories in the long history of computer roleplaying games. All over a theory.

Lololololol, Crispy. Do you even believe yourself the crap you're writing? The evidence of harmful DRM and DLC is plentiful enough for even moronic gaming journos to see and you're dismissing it, as if general industry trends wouldn't affect Ubisoft or M&M X in any manner. Then you're claiming that a simple blobber that's going to be streamlined could be the greatest comeback story ever. As if.

 

[Crispy]

'k.

 

[FeelTheRads]

It's tangible, real evidence that this game is going to be very pleasing to fans of the original series. It looks like a faithful homage.

Mkay. Tangible evidence is when the game is released, though.

than to realize that all of this huffing and puffing over your rights as a gamer and the holy crusade against rights management is at its core silly at best and completely counterproductive at worst?

Ah, well, OK, I'll just don't care anymore about my rights as a CONSUMER just because the amazing favor a developer is doing me by creating a product for which I have to pay.
WHAT THE FUCK. This is why we can't have nice things. This is why we'll end up with always online everywhere. Because, unlike pretty much all other industries, the video game one is seen as doing favors to the customers just by the fact they're creating stuff. What, they're fucking you in the ass? Stop being so entitled, don't you see the pain they go through to create something for you?

The point is, however, that the developer does, and they need your money. Pirate it and they don't get it. That, in the end, means no more RPG goodness. For that, I would blame people like you, Rads.

Myeah, somehow no-DRM or at least no-"please install this malware along with your game cuz lol" seems to work. If saying no to this shit is gonna kill the industry, then it deserves to die. Period.

 

[GarfunkeL]

'k.

 

[Crispy]

Mkay. Tangible evidence is when the game is released, though.

Personally I'd rather learn a little about a game before it's released so I don't get shafted. The kind of coverage this one is receiving is a great way to judge it beforehand. Wouldn't you say so? To me, so far, it looks great.

Ah, well, OK, I'll just don't care anymore about my rights as a CONSUMER just because the amazing favor a developer is doing me by creating a product for which I have to pay.

You don't have to pay for anything. Just don't stoop to quietly yarring it after it's released because you then realized what a classic you were missing out on. Buy it then, if that becomes true, and we'll have no problems. Or skip it, if the evil corporate monster DRM scares you so badly.

This is why we'll end up with always online everywhere.

Well, you're online now. What's the problem?

Because, unlike pretty much all other industries, the video game one is seen as doing favors to the customers just by the fact they're creating stuff. What, they're fucking you in the ass? Stop being so entitled, don't you see the pain they go through to create something for you?

How is DRM fucking you in the ass? Stop being so irrationally butthurt about it, because they're not.

Myeah, somehow no-DRM or at least no-"please install this malware along with your game cuz lol" seems to work. If saying no to this shit is gonna kill the industry, then it deserves to die. Period.

And there it is. Malware, malware everywhere. I've got news for you, bro. You're downloading more malware by logging into the Codex than you are in firing up a UPlay-enabled game. GTFO.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, you're online now. What's the problem?

You. And your "lol ur online all the time anyway who carez right" bros.

And there it is. Malware, malware everywhere. I've got news for you, bro. You're downloading more malware by logging into the Codex than you are in firing up a UPlay-enabled game. GTFO.

Can't bother to answer how some work without DRM, huh? Is it because you can't, maybe? Also can't into exaggerations, huh? Fine, bloatware then? Adware? Happy with that? Installing some other shit because the game won't run otherwise is shit. Inb4 but you have to install directx lolol
And then we'll have to install more and more and more and more, because hey, fuck you, you already need to install that shit, why not install this shit too? Have 10 programs install together to protect our favor we're doing to you, because fuck you, you're just giving us your money.

 

[Crispy]

Well, Windows. Come on. That's a specious argument. Stop driving a car at all because you have to obey traffic laws. Might as well stop breathing because you're outputting too much CO2.

The bloatware argument I can see. As I said, it is annoying. But it's not, demonstrably, harmful to the development of, the launching and running of, or the long-term success of computer roleplaying games and other games in general. Prove me wrong here. Give me an example of a game that somehow lost out on its potential solely to the presence of an anti-piracy wrapper. Please don't include DLC because that's a separate argument. If you choose to equate the two then we're back to the non-example of that in M&M X thus back to my original point:

Just because M&M X is going to be DRM-protected doesn't mean it's not going to be a worthy game to purchase. Anyone who says fuck UPlay I'm pirating this bitch is the enemy of the industry IMO.

Those, however, who say they're going to purchase the game legitimately then download the cracked .exe I can't really take issue with.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Or we could play it, enjoy it, and when someone makes another game like it with no DRM at all, we use the money saved to buy 2 copies of that instead of this. Or just mail a check straight to Limbic and a bag of flaming poo to ubi.

But that'd be evil and wrong, only supporting the people we want to support.

And if you don't think shit like having your game progress completely erased because the always online DRM server crashed is being fucked in the ass, I'm not sure what you'd think is crossing the line.

Consider if I had total market control of what video games got purchased, and made MMXI flop, along with anything else with Uplay or worse DRM. And on the other hand, I made Grimrock sell boatloads. One of two things would happen;

1: They chalk it up to the drm and release MMXII without DRM. Win.
2: They chalk it up to piracy and release MMXIII with even more DRM. Lose, but make that flop as well, until the company fucking dies or gets the picture. Eventually, you'll get a win by someone doing the right thing.

Either way, boycotting DRM would result in it dying out, one way or another. OTOH, lets consider your plan. You buy boatloads of MMXI.

1: They chalk it up to their successful DRM and marketing and turn into EA/Blizzard/Bethesda. Lose.
2: They chalk it up to the niche genre and employ the same amount of DRM in MMXII. Partial win.


Obviously my market control is closer to fuck all. But I'd still rather spit on their car if I can't reach their face, than kiss their ass and hope they have a change of heart.

 

[tuluse]

When have games not had DRM? First we had code wheels and secret codes revealed by cellophane, then cd-keys, and then launchers with online activation.

For me, the least annoying of these was the last one.

 

[Jasede]

Oh god, I hope you're wearing your asbestos pants.

 

[GarfunkeL]

For me, the least annoying of these was the last one.

Clueless retards, clueless retards never change.

Because everyone everywhere can always instantly access the Interwebz and no publisher has ever gone bankrupt or took down their servers. Pool of Radiance was released in 1988. If I wanted to, I could install and play it tomorrow, 25 years later, and the code-wheel would still work.

 

[Infinitron]

Fuck DRM, fuck anti-DRM activists. Support good games.

Damned Registrations What is this MMXI you keep referring to

 

[Jasede]

Now that sentiment I can live with.

 

[tuluse]

For me, the least annoying of these was the last one.

Clueless retards, clueless retards never change.

Because everyone everywhere can always instantly access the Interwebz and no publisher has ever gone bankrupt or took down their servers. Pool of Radiance was released in 1988. If I wanted to, I could install and play it tomorrow, 25 years later, and the code-wheel would still work.

One time activations don't need always on internet.

 

[Crispy]

There's some meat to the argument that "just doing what they want is going to enable them to continue doing what they want." Okay.

But where do you come up with the notion that this is all going to lead to Limbic/Ubisoft turning into the next EA/Blizzard/Bethesda?

On the contrary, a company like Ubisoft, who has had shall we say much less than a stellar reputation, suddenly comes out of the blue in producing a turn-based -- TURN-BASED! -- computer roleplaying game clearly targeting a completely different audience than what one would expect them to. This is after years as a company of using DRM in their products (someone would have to check on this, I don't care to as it serves no purpose in my argument) which, apparently, actually resulted in an anti-Decline?

Decline: that's what we're talking about here, right? Essentially?

Sorry, but as much as it's hard to believe, DRM did not cause a permanent Decline. M&M X, alongside non-DRM titles that are coming soon, like Larian's new Divinity title, has as much Incline potential as they do. I should read up more about how Larian is getting by without using any protection other than a one-time activation. That would be the better argument.

Edit: And I would be interested in hearing for example FeelTheRads opinion on that strategy: the one-time activation. Still the devil? No better at all? Where does this stop? No anti-piracy measures whatsoever?

Edit 2: My last few sentences there are actually a slippery slope too; I admit that and concede it. Rhetoric only.

 

[Mortmal]

Code wheels now that was hard core i remmber very well monkey island one :

It certainly take much less time to get on uplay, than using that or typing a word from the manual. As for boycotting or pirating might and magic cause of uplay, its the dumbest idea ever, its already a niche game that probably wont sell very well, only thing you are going to prove is there's no interest in rpgs , if the few people interested arent event buying it will be a complete disaster . Thats such a futile reason tp pirate a game , just say you want stuff for free and deal with it .

 

[Koschey]

I prefer buying games instead of services. I'm not keen on being forced to use 2, 3 or more different services that offer me nothing substantial because of exclusives. Especially if the games could easily be capable of running without them. Not interested in achievements, statistics and other such bullshit and the organizational advantage is marginal at best.

MM X does look good so far, granted, but surprisingly enough it's far from the only incoming (potential) incline. Even if UPlay is relatively benign, no-DRM is still superior, so with or without MM X, I'll have my hands full of (hopefully) great new RPGs to play.

 

[Crispy]

Heh. I just thought of an example for my own question. Battlefield 3. Origin is so God-awful slow that it's actually discouraging me from playing that game.

Guess I'll never buy another shitty FPS ever again.