Community RPG Codex People's Awards: Best RPGs

[Snikt]

Anyway, as for the lists themselves, it's definitely skewed around games released in the 90s/early 00s. The list is more about Codex's most popular RPGs, rather than the best RPGs. Not really surprising, given the demographics of the Codex (would assume most Codexers are young adults in their 20s or 30s who were/are fans of Black Isle, Troika, etc) and the increased exposure of the games industry in that time period, but before it went to shit.

Wow, decided to break my lurking to voice my disappointment in those polls, especially the fact that only 3 of the top 10 Computer RPG's are even 90's games.

We've had polls like this one the forum since the beginning and the results are always the same. Fallout, Planescape, Fallout II and then a lot of Troika and Infinity games. Only difference between the new posters and oldies was that the mayority of the older ones actually knew and played stuff like Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Realms of Arkania and Darklands. Nowadays most people don't go further back in their knowledge of rpg's than the late 90's or early 00's.

That's not really an excuse in the age of DOSBox, WinUAE and internet downloads.

 

[Cyberarmy]

From the BG group on facebook:

fallout shouldn't even be acknowledged by a true RPG fan.

I want to answer that one as a proper RPG fan!

He has nowhere to run!

 

[LeStryfe79]

That console list is actually pretty fucking good. I don't even remember voting and my top five would have been the same.

 

[mikaelis]

So, why are those lists inconsistent? console-trash did it right (if two games hit, say place 5, the next game will be placed at 7 - this is not the case with PC cRPG list).

Not that I dislike Desu Ex. It is just that if you want to be , be consistent all the way.

 

[Trash]

Anyway, as for the lists themselves, it's definitely skewed around games released in the 90s/early 00s. The list is more about Codex's most popular RPGs, rather than the best RPGs. Not really surprising, given the demographics of the Codex (would assume most Codexers are young adults in their 20s or 30s who were/are fans of Black Isle, Troika, etc) and the increased exposure of the games industry in that time period, but before it went to shit.

Wow, decided to break my lurking to voice my disappointment in those polls, especially the fact that only 3 of the top 10 Computer RPG's are even 90's games.

We've had polls like this one the forum since the beginning and the results are always the same. Fallout, Planescape, Fallout II and then a lot of Troika and Infinity games. Only difference between the new posters and oldies was that the mayority of the older ones actually knew and played stuff like Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Realms of Arkania and Darklands. Nowadays most people don't go further back in their knowledge of rpg's than the late 90's or early 00's.

That's not really an excuse in the age of DOSBox, WinUAE and internet downloads.

Who says I'm making an excuse? I just state an unfortunate truth. The Codex is filled with mostly teens and early twenties males who like to think they're part of the fight against the decline while at the same time being graphic whores who react disgusted whenever they see something not having the latest shaders and highest res textures. Case in point are Vogels games that while not old are certainly not pretty and went from Codex favourites in 2002 to shit in 2010. Guess how a mayority reacts to the rpg's from the 90's and 80's with their archaic graphics and UI's...

 

[Themadcow]

That console list is most amusing. I could have thrown a list of JRPG's up in the air and had them fall down in an order more reasonable than the utter clusterfuck that list embodies. I mean, for the love of god, it doesn't even list Suikoden II?

The CRPG list, whilst not even reasonably a 'best' CRPG list (it's absolutely a 'most played that isn't total shit') still contains a reasonable cast of titles without totally embarassing itself... except for placing Wiz 8 above 6 and 7, but I'm putting that down to recency and a split vote for 6 and 7...

 

[Overboard]

That monocle'd troll handing out the prize ribbon ought to be an emoticon.

Looks more like a grizzled codexer shielding himself against the decline.

 

[abnaxus]

Thanks for everyone that helped with this, and for those that are curious, here's the full result of the TOP 50 Console RPG voting:

Spoiler

I wouldn't have expected Xenogears (let alone Chrono Cross) to be so well liked. And no sight of Xenosaga, although the games get mentioned around these parts a lot.

 

[Grunker]

So, why are those lists inconsistent? console-trash did it right (if two games hit, say place 5, the next game will be placed at 7 - this is not the case with PC cRPG list).

PC has only three games in the same spot at #9, so for ease of use and to make room for the games, we bundled them together and they didn't "cost" a spot each. Consoles had many more instances of games receiving a similar amount of votes, so that list is formatted differently by necessity.

 

[JarlFrank]

I originally wrote RtwP as "Race Treason with Pause" but Grunker said it's too much of an in-joke for one of these big frontpage pieces. Blame him for missing some incredibly witty humour.

 

[Trash]

Germans and humor mix about as well as British and cuisine.

 

[felipepepe]

My SMT: Nocturne text ended with " If I could pick one JRPG for Awor to play, it would be this one.", but he also edited that out...

 

[Monty]

Always difficult to compare games across different eras. But when I think of how influential something like Pool of Radiance was for its time, and compare it to Icewind Dale for example (which came 8th despite having identical gameplay to Baldur's Gate), it's a bit disappointing. Icewind Dale was ok, but I'll always remember the first time I played Pool of Radiance, Wizardry, Fallout, Torment, Baldur's Gate, etc.

 

[dnf]

Potential Mass murdereres can't make into the spotlight

 

[Snikt]

Anyway, as for the lists themselves, it's definitely skewed around games released in the 90s/early 00s. The list is more about Codex's most popular RPGs, rather than the best RPGs. Not really surprising, given the demographics of the Codex (would assume most Codexers are young adults in their 20s or 30s who were/are fans of Black Isle, Troika, etc) and the increased exposure of the games industry in that time period, but before it went to shit.

Wow, decided to break my lurking to voice my disappointment in those polls, especially the fact that only 3 of the top 10 Computer RPG's are even 90's games.

We've had polls like this one the forum since the beginning and the results are always the same. Fallout, Planescape, Fallout II and then a lot of Troika and Infinity games. Only difference between the new posters and oldies was that the mayority of the older ones actually knew and played stuff like Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Realms of Arkania and Darklands. Nowadays most people don't go further back in their knowledge of rpg's than the late 90's or early 00's.

That's not really an excuse in the age of DOSBox, WinUAE and internet downloads.

Who says I'm making an excuse? I just state an unfortunate truth. The Codex is filled with mostly teens and early twenties males who like to think they're part of the fight against the decline while at the same time being graphic whores who react disgusted whenever they see something not having the latest shaders. Case in point are Vogels games that while not old are certainly not pretty and went from Codex favourites in 2002 to shit in 2010.

I apologize I didn't mean you, I just mean that it's not like there's an unwritten rule that one must only play a game straight after it is released. I myself was born too early to have even owned an DOS machine or Amiga but as I understand emulating them today is actually superior to the native experience due to having direct control over the processor cycles the game is run at, not to mention scalers and filters which smooth out the pixels. Especially in the age of abandonware and GOG.com, it's just not true that "games age".

I feel that RPG's like Bard's Tale II and Gates of Dawn were better than Fallout or Arcanum because they had less bugs, and because they didn't bother the player and force story stuff on the player. In Fallout and Arcanum you are forced through an FMV movie at the start which tells you what to do, and Arcanum has Virgil in your party and asking you questions. They are quite different than DOS and Amiga games which have no introduction and you create a party and a straight into the world and they leave you alone.

I believe the RPGCodex has a saying about "decline", well not leaving the player alone to interact and adventure is decline to me.

 

[Grunker]

Anyway, as for the lists themselves, it's definitely skewed around games released in the 90s/early 00s. The list is more about Codex's most popular RPGs, rather than the best RPGs. Not really surprising, given the demographics of the Codex (would assume most Codexers are young adults in their 20s or 30s who were/are fans of Black Isle, Troika, etc) and the increased exposure of the games industry in that time period, but before it went to shit.

Wow, decided to break my lurking to voice my disappointment in those polls, especially the fact that only 3 of the top 10 Computer RPG's are even 90's games.

We've had polls like this one the forum since the beginning and the results are always the same. Fallout, Planescape, Fallout II and then a lot of Troika and Infinity games. Only difference between the new posters and oldies was that the mayority of the older ones actually knew and played stuff like Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Realms of Arkania and Darklands. Nowadays most people don't go further back in their knowledge of rpg's than the late 90's or early 00's.

That's not really an excuse in the age of DOSBox, WinUAE and internet downloads.

Who says I'm making an excuse? I just state an unfortunate truth. The Codex is filled with mostly teens and early twenties males who like to think they're part of the fight against the decline while at the same time being graphic whores who react disgusted whenever they see something not having the latest shaders and highest res textures.

Oh come on, bro. I've played almost every single one of the classics, and my list didn't look that much different (except for some rearranging and exiling Arcanum to the depths of non-existence, and the fact that I even have even more recent games on the list). Such a childish response to react with disagreeance to this by calling people who voted graphics whores who must have the latest shaders. Latest shaders in that fucking list? Are you even fucking listening to yourself?

Top 10 lists are the result of all the games you enjoyed the most mixed with nostalgia. So most people will enjoy all the classics they've played on the same level, yet people will, oddly enough, vote for the ones they played first. So yes, this is the result of the average Codexer's age being 25, but it probably isn't because they haven't played the classics, it's because they didn't play the classics first.

Graphics whores, hah. Fallout 1 and 2 are uglier than most of the GoldBox games in my opinion.

EDIT: Another fact is that the games in that list are generally very hassle-free to play and very well-documented, which cannot be said about most of the games you listed. The fact that these games are in the Top 10 also represents the fact that they stand on the shoulders of most of the older classics; using their mechanics but doing away with all their bullshit.

 

[Ulminati]

MY BOSS IS VERY BUTTHURT WASTELAND DIDN'T MAKE THE TOP 10!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Who says I'm making an excuse? I just state an unfortunate truth. The Codex is filled with mostly teens and early twenties males who like to think they're part of the fight against the decline while at the same time being graphic whores who react disgusted whenever they see something not having the latest shaders and highest res textures. Case in point are Vogels games that while not old are certainly not pretty and went from Codex favourites in 2002 to shit in 2010. Guess how a mayority reacts to the rpg's from the 90's and 80's with their archaic graphics and UI's...

Aren't you always saying there's no such thing as a Hivemind? That's not an "unfortunate" truth, it's just that the site's residents gradually changed over the course of almost ten years (edit: and with that, the favorites), which I imagine happens to almost every site. And in any case the most voted games aren't things a graphics whore who is disgusted by lack of shaders and high-res textures would choose, so where did that come from? The criticism I've seen directed at Vogel's games weren't ever about the lack of pretty graffix either.

 

[Ulminati]

If avernum is any indication, prettier = shittier as far as Vogels games go

 

[Spectacle]

We've had polls like this one the forum since the beginning and the results are always the same. Fallout, Planescape, Fallout II and then a lot of Troika and Infinity games. Only difference between the new posters and oldies was that the mayority of the older ones actually knew and played stuff like Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Realms of Arkania and Darklands. Nowadays most people don't go further back in their knowledge of rpg's than the late 90's or early 00's.

It's no big surprise really. Despite some dead ends (FMV interactive movies anyone?) gaming really was on a path of incremental improvement until about 2000, where new games built upon the features of the old, so it's only natural that the best games came towards the end of the period. Then the XBOX generation came and started the decline in full force, giving us the Dark Decade instead of the further incline we had been hoping for.

 

[flushfire]

KotOR2 higher than Betrayal at Krondor? : x

and FF7 included on the console list wtf i see even FF8 is in there

 

[Grunker]

gaming really was on a path of incremental improvement until about 2000, where new games built upon the features of the old, so it's only natural that the best games came towards the end of the period.

Bing-fucking-o.

 

[Themadcow]

Always difficult to compare games across different eras. But when I think of how influential something like Pool of Radiance was for its time, and compare it to Icewind Dale for example (which came 8th despite having identical gameplay to Baldur's Gate), it's a bit disappointing. Icewind Dale was ok, but I'll always remember the first time I played Pool of Radiance, Wizardry, Fallout, Torment, Baldur's Gate, etc.

The Gold Box games almost certainly suffer from their volume. Pools of Darkness is arguably a better game than Radiance but doesn't have the recognition factor or the influence that the original game did. Likewise I'm sure that split votes between PoR, PoD, the Krynn and Dark Sun series also dilute the vote (alongside the age of the games).

Perhaps a better system would be to have a 5 or 10 point rating scale for every game in the top 100 from this list and get people to score each game they've played, with an N/A to games they haven't played or haven't played enough of. Games with sufficient sample size would then be ranked by mean average score.

 

[Trash]

Are you even fucking listening to yourself?

Did I step on your toe? Push your buttons? Burn down your house? Chillax man. The codex has always liked the more 'modern' rpg's since I joined here and while in 2002 a lot of people still knew the older classics that has been watered down as time passes on. Just the way of the world, new generation and all that. My facination with the resident graphic whorism stems from a nice experiment Blackadder once did here. He basically described the perfect 'Codex' rpg but let it have archaic graphics. A vast mayority voted against it on that basis alone.

While I'm sure lots of people here have played the classics, I'm also sure a mayority haven't and don't give a fuck about them. Shit, we even have regular posters here harping on about the decline who have never even played one of the top three games in the list. It's a simple matter of younger posters having a different frame of reference and different standards of tolerance regarding graphics and UI. In itself not so bad but when these are the same people advocating the codex as an elite gaming communitiy it starts to go into full retard mode.

EDIT: Another fact is that the games in that list are generally very hassle-free to play and very well-documented, which cannot be said about most of the games you listed. The fact that these games are in the Top 10 also represents the fact that they stand on the shoulders of most of the older classics; using their mechanics but doing away with all their bullshit.

Well, thanks for backing my first post I guess.


EDIT: Gaming on an incline for a decade? That was just gaming changing from a fringe hobby into an industry. It meant bigger budgets and indeed bigger and shinier games. It also meant that all the seeds for the bullshit industry as we know it now were being planted already. Gaming did not go to shit because of a console or a new generation. It went to shit because of a natural continuity of things already set in motion.

 

[Infinitron]

Icewind Dale and TOEE don't belong on the list. Ultima 7 and Betrayal at Krondor do. Also one of the Wizardry and Gold Box games.

Trash is correct. Not sure what Grunker is butthurt about, it's not like he voted these in.