Community RPG Codex People's Awards: Best RPGs

[felipepepe]

People that started with Fallout or BG's see nothing but a crude proto-RPG when they go to Gold Box or Wizardry, while the ones that started with those hold them as TRUE RPGS and the rest as popamole decline... such is the circle of life.

One must REALLY delve into the genre with critical eyes to manage to get past it's personal views & prejudice and see the games at their context in time and future influence, that's not somethign easy to do, especially considering how older games demand more than most are willing/able to give...

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Glad to see Bloodlines, New Vegas and Morrowind made the top 10.

 

[Grunker]

Are you even fucking listening to yourself?

Did I step on your toe? Push your buttons? Burn down your house? Chillax man. The codex has always liked the more 'modern' rpg's since I joined here and while in 2002 a lot of people still knew the older classics that has been watered down as time passes on. Just the way of the world, new generation and all that. My facination with the resident graphic whorism stems from a nice experiment Blackadder once did here. He basically described the perfect 'Codex' rpg but let it have archaic graphics. A vast mayority voted against it on that basis alone.

Doesn't really fit in with this list though, does it, and you made the comment in that relation. Kind of a "by the way, let's fucking waste Carthage man, they've had it coming for a long time!"

While I'm sure lots of people here have played the classics, I'm also sure a mayority haven't and don't give a fuck about them. Shit, we even have regular posters here harping on about the decline who have never even played one of the top three games in the list. It's a simple matter of younger posters having a different frame of reference and different standards of tolerance regarding graphics and UI. In itself not so bad but when these are the same people advocating the codex as an elite gaming communitiy it starts to go into full retard mode.

That's one way of seeing it. Another is that people like me ended up playing a lot of the classics because we found the Codex. Hell, my oldest RPG before the Codex was Lands of Lore and after that Might & Magic VII. The Codex presented all the new (well, old) shit to me.

But I also think you're side-stepping Spectacle's excellent point. Most of the old classics are a hassle to play and though they certainly deserve mention on lists like this by virtue of starting it all and laying the foundation, the best games are the ones in the late 90's that built on these aspects. Then everything went to shit post-2002. Your post kind of suggests that in 10 years time, the Codex will have switched gears so that this list now has games from 2002-2010 on it instead. In fact, your entire hypothesis hinges on this happening. And I don't think it will (barring that the Kickstarter revolution produces a fuckton of insanely awesome shit, obviously, but then that wasn't what you meant when you said new posters have a smaller frame of reference).

Trash is correct. Not sure what Grunker is butthurt about, it's not like he voted these in.

Huh, Infinitron?

From my list, the following games made it in: Temple of Elemental Evil, Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale II, Bloodlines, New Vegas, Deus Ex.

Games that didn't make it include Knights of the Chalice, King of Dragon Pass, Wizardry 8, Might & Magic VII, Lands of Lore, and more.

Considering that 9 out of 12 games in the Top 10 were games I voted for, I think we can safely say this list is pretty representative of my opinion

What makes me "butthurt" though ("butthurt" is the new "disagreeing"!) is that Trash is basically making the "Codex is going down the toilet" argument by way of proxy. And that argument was, has always been, and still is, crap.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Codex delendus est.

 

[Snikt]

We've had polls like this one the forum since the beginning and the results are always the same. Fallout, Planescape, Fallout II and then a lot of Troika and Infinity games. Only difference between the new posters and oldies was that the mayority of the older ones actually knew and played stuff like Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Realms of Arkania and Darklands. Nowadays most people don't go further back in their knowledge of rpg's than the late 90's or early 00's.

It's no big surprise really. Despite some dead ends (FMV interactive movies anyone?) gaming really was on a path of incremental improvement until about 2000, where new games built upon the features of the old, so it's only natural that the best games came towards the end of the period. Then the XBOX generation came and started the decline in full force, giving us the Dark Decade instead of the further incline we had been hoping for.

Really? My thoughts are that RPG's reached their pinnacle in 1992-3, the years of Ultima VI, Ultima VII, Serpent Isle, Wizardry VII, Darklands, Gates of Dawn, Blade of Destiny, the Ultima Underworlds, Might and Magic V & VI, Betrayal at Krondor, and the last of the SSI Savage Frontier.

1994 was the year of Ultima Pagan, which is symbolic for things that were about to go downhill. The late 90's and early 00's produced some good titles in my opinion, but they were made by dying companies and it was obvious.

 

[LeStryfe79]

KotOR2 higher than Betrayal at Krondor? : x

and FF7 included on the console list wtf i see even FF8 is in there

Even though it's overrated by mainstream critics, I definitely think FF7 deserves to be on the list. The only things I really liked about the game was the schizophrenic main character and the music. Damned if that music didn't carry the game though, and damned if FF7 wasn't the most influential game of its genre. I absolutely hated how easy it was though. I still think it deserves a spot, albeit a little further down the list. FF8 blew me away with its graphics at the time, but IMO has some of the worst rpg mechanics I've ever seen and a story line that's clearly trying too hard. That game is a complete stinker in almost every regard except presentation, but in this case that wasn't enough to save it. This is one of the first instances where I thought a game was wildly overpraised by the media, despite its huge shortcomings.

 

[Trash]

Doesn't really fit in with this list though, does it, and you made the comment in that relation.

It does. It's indicative of the userbase of this site and thus explains why we got this list.

Your post kind of suggests that in 10 years time

Don't start throwing logical fallacies at me, bro.

But I also thing you're side-stepping Spectacle's excellent point.

Reread my reaction on it. "Gaming on an incline for a decade? That was just gaming changing from a fringe hobby into an industry. It meant bigger budgets and indeed bigger and shinier games. It also meant that all the seeds for the bullshit industry as we know it now were being planted already. Gaming did not go to shit because of a console or a new generation. It went to shit because of a natural continuity of things already set in motion."

Plus I strongly disagree with your opinion that the best rpg's are automatically those of the late 90's and early 00's because of superior mechanics. Games like BaK, Ultima 7, Darklands, Dark Sun stand high above such decline fare as Icewind Dale. But hey, opinions.

Trash is basically making the "Codex is going down the toilet" argument by way of proxy.

My whole argument is that this site is a lot more mainstream than even the users here seem to realise. Polls like this do an excellent job at pointing it out for the masses tho.

 

[Grunker]

It does. It´s indicative of the userbase of this site and thus explains why we got this list.

You still claim that the concept of "must have the latest shaders" fits with this list? How? Why?

Don´t start throwing logical fallacies at me, bro.

The basics of your argument is "people vote for these games because they're 25." How does that not entail that the people who are 25 in 10 years won't vote for games 10 years later?

Plus I strongly disagree with your opinion that the best rpg´s are automatically those of the late 90´s and early 00´s. But that´s just our opinions.

I'm not saying you should agree, I'm saying people voted for them because that's their opinion. Not because they've never played the classics and are graphics whores, which is your claim.

 

[Infinitron]

What makes me "butthurt" though ("butthurt" is the new "disagreeing"!) is that Trash is basically making the "Codex is going down the toilet" argument by way of proxy. And that argument was, has always been, and still is, crap.

That's not what I took from his statement.

 

[xemous]

planescape torment is not an rpg or even a game. it shouldn't be on the list.

 

[laclongquan]

Just 3 pages only? Codex, I disappoint :frown:

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

planescape torment is not an rpg or even a game. it shouldn't be on the list.

Sorry, but you're going to have to try harder if you want to use retreads.

 

[General Maxson]

In about 10 years time, Fallout 3 will be considered a classic on the Codex, and a game only old school hardcore gamers play.

 

[Trash]

And there we went from having a nice conversation about games into sperger territory. Disagreeing with me all you want but if you're going to nitpick every sentence, misrepresent my words, cherry pick and try to use every logical fallacy you can find then we won't have much of a discussion here, Grunker. Everything I can say I already said in my first post here but I'll summarise my point as best as I can for you; the list is more indicative of the userbase of this site than as a defenitive guide on the best rpg's.

 

[Brother None]

What makes me "butthurt" though ("butthurt" is the new "disagreeing"!) is that Trash is basically making the "Codex is going down the toilet" argument by way of proxy. And that argument was, has always been, and still is, crap.

He's right, guys. This really need to stop.

Fact is the Codex went down the toilet years ago, and there's not a lot of "down" left to go.

 

[felipepepe]

My whole argument is that this site is a lot more mainstream than even the users here seem to realise. Polls like this do an excellent job at pointing it out for the masses tho.

The Top 10 perhaps, the full list is very far from what you see arounf the interwebs... and even the Top 10 has a "Codexian flavour", with the lack of newer BioWare games, and all the love given to the Troika Trio, games that don't even appear on other lists like IGN's ot NEOgaf's...

EDIT:

the list is more indicative of the userbase of this site than as a defenitive guide on the best rpg's.

No doubt, but that is a trait of every list you'll ever find....

 

[Average Manatee]

Best of Lists are actually lists of games that came out when you were 12. Get over it.

 

[Shadenuat]

A strange list, yes, and dat Icewind Dale... but Infinitron's opinion on Fallout 1 sums up nicely why 90's games are more beloved - it's because they're more all-around balanced, with combat, exploration and dialogue mixed together, and they just have better production value.

Also, Troika rocks. There is more creativity in a single item art from Arcanum than in a whole game like KoTOR 1.

 

[Trash]

lists like IGN's ot NEOgaf's

Are we seriously comparing ourselves to the likes of those?

 

[Rake]

In about 10 years time, Fallout 3 will be considered a classic on the Codex, and a game only old school hardcore gamers play.

Of course it will. Because in 10 years the new mainstream will be the games pioneered but the kickstarters of 2013, and inXile, Obsidian and Hairbrained schemes the new corporations, the only ones that survived the industry crush.

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

More like best RPGs of the late 90s/early 00s (and New Vegas).

This is so clearly a 20-something'er's idea of the top RPGs of all time.

I am disappointed in your level of Codex. Smells of

The survey (the PC section at least) originally intended to produce a top 50 (rather than top 10) of computer RPGs, allowing people to list 25 games without any order of preference, so as to give a truly wide selection. Now apart from the fact that the Black Isle era games form a natural intersection of what most older and younger gamers will put on an unordered top 25 list, many of the 80s/early 90s classics (and, say, Vogel's games) suffer from the series syndrome: most people will have a favourite or two and opt to list that rather than a full list of Ultima, Wizardry or Gold Box games (because they consider their favourite to be representative of the series and hesitate to include what they consider to be weaker entries). Even where there is something like a consensus (Pool of Radiance, World of Xeen, Crusaders of the Dark Savant, Ultima VII?), it's not strong enough to put a game in the top 10, especially given the naturally shifting user demographics; hence higher placement of games like Betrayal at Krondor, Darklands and Dark Sun, where there is either no series or only loose (and lower quality) sequels.

 

[Gozma]

Just need to keep tweaking the voting rules until shit like IWD gets gerrymandered out of the top 20 and [Darklands/BaK/a Wiz/a M&M/a GB] consolidate and move on up

You know, like a democracy

 

[hiver]

Why the fuck TOEE is not on the first ninth place?

 

[felipepepe]

lists like IGN's ot NEOgaf's

Are we seriously comparing ourselves to the likes of those?

You are the one saying our list is more mainstream than we think, I'm poiting you that the mainstream is more mainstream than you think...

 

[Grunker]

And there we went from having a nice conversation about games into sperger territory. Disagreeing with me all you want but if you're going to nitpick every sentence, misrepresent my words and try to use every logical fallacy you can find then we won't have much of a discussion here, Grunker. Everything I can say I already said in my first post here but I'll summarise my point as best as I can for you; the list is more indicative of the userbase of this site than as a defenitive guide on the best rpg's.

graphic whores who react disgusted whenever they see something not having the latest shaders and highest res textures.

Fallout, Deus Ex, Baldur's Gate

You can't answer me as to the correlation, so you call me a sperger? You asked me if I stepped on your toe or pushed your buttons, and I gotta fucking ask the same to you. I asked you to answer a pretty simple question: What is the fucking correlation between your accusation that the Codex are suddenly suckers for Direct X Newest.1 and this Top 10 list?

Don't talk to me about "misrepresenting your words" - boo-fucking-hoo - I'm asking you an honest-to-God-question. Why the fuck do you suddenly react all passive-aggressive to what was basically a pretty civil discussion?