Interview RPG Codex Retrospective Interview: Leonard Boyarsky on Fallout, Interplay and Troika

[villain of the story]

Oh so you disagree? Let's hear it.

 

[felipepepe]

TOEE was only a solid and faithful DnD impelementation.

Oh, ONLY that?

 

[villain of the story]

Little harsh on Timmy there aren't you?

Why? I'm only focusing on the combat. I love Fallouts. Other than the exploits and bugs, I love the combat, I find it very fun. I love the interaction, the character system etc. I love the simplicity of the character system in Arcanum. I think it hits the nail on the head on what "simplicity multiplied" means, even though it had shit balance and abysmal combat, grindful of awful encounters. TOEE - fuck the haters. The way UI was handled is also very elegant, very practical. And Bloodlines is just so fucking cool overall. And all of these games are in my best of list and I love them also for their systems.

But combat, mang. And Troika really had no excuse to make such shit console combat in a VtMB game of all things which is full of elegant and puzzle-like mechanics and situations in the rulebooks. I don't even mind the overdone stereotypes. But that combat system in VtMB is a fucking disgrace. Perhaps Arcanum is more understandable; balancing the game around magic, martial and tech could not have been easy and especially so in such a huge and long game as Arcanum. But VtMB, being a much more focused and shorter game with self-contained set pieces for combat, not really.

I wish there were questions about all these details. Mind that the next time you interview an ex-Troika/Interplay.

 

[Outlander]

What do you mean by 'crazy questions', exactly?

- some happy middle ground between being rabidly berserk and all proper and dandy could be achieved?

That's why I asked, I was looking for a more precise answer, and not some vague description that includes everything in between 2 extremely different types of interviewing, hence the 'exactly'. But whatever.

 

[villain of the story]

TOEE was only a solid and faithful DnD impelementation.

Oh, ONLY that?

Nigga please. I'm not underestimating the task of recreating such a daunting system in such an accessible way. It's exceptional work and I can't even imagine the kinds of headaches he or they must have gone through. I'm only calling into question TinCan's ability of writing a good combat system from scratch. And let's not forget that even Fallout system is a GURP readaptation after dropping GURP. Again, exceptional work if you ask me, but we have only two examples of TinCan writing a combat system from ground up and they both ended up SHIT (Arcanum, Bloodlines), one too ambitious, stretched out and horribly broken and unbalanced and the other, a bland simplistic crap of the console shooter/slasher variety. Not impressed at all.

So if they license and recreate an existing system, like Riddle of Steel, Pathfinder or Codex Martialis, for instance, then holy fucking yay! Otherwise, brace yourselves for typical Obsidian blandness in combat.

 

[Excidium]

The combat rules don't matter much if encounter design is shit.

 

[Jaesun]

what does this have to do with the interview?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Oh so you disagree? Let's hear it.

I'm an original gangsta, negroid.
I don't splain shit nigga.
My thoughts? They's everwhere, jez look young niglet.

 

[Excidium]

what does this have to do with the interview?

Was commenting the post made by vots, you have him on ignore?

 

[Marsal]

Little harsh on Timmy there aren't you?

Why? I'm only focusing on the combat. I love Fallouts. Other than the exploits and bugs, I love the combat, I find it very fun. I love the interaction, the character system etc. I love the simplicity of the character system in Arcanum. I think it hits the nail on the head on what "simplicity multiplied" means, even though it had shit balance and abysmal combat, grindful of awful encounters. TOEE - fuck the haters. The way UI was handled is also very elegant, very practical. And Bloodlines is just so fucking cool overall. And all of these games are in my best of list and I love them also for their systems.

But combat, mang. And Troika really had no excuse to make such shit console combat in a VtMB game of all things which is full of elegant and puzzle-like mechanics and situations in the rulebooks. I don't even mind the overdone stereotypes. But that combat system in VtMB is a fucking disgrace. Perhaps Arcanum is more understandable; balancing the game around magic, martial and tech could not have been easy and especially so in such a huge and long game as Arcanum. But VtMB, being a much more focused and shorter game with self-contained set pieces for combat, not really.

I wish there were questions about all these details. Mind that the next time you interview an ex-Troika/Interplay.

I don't completely agree with all of this, but it is quite accurate overall.

I think Bloodlines had decent combat (certainly more enjoyable than Risen 2 or any PB game for that matter). It could have been better, but the game comes together so well, that it's not a huge deal for me.

Combat in Arcanum, on the other hand, is just BSB. It's not exclusevly Troika's fault (implementing TB and RT never works), but it was just a clusterfuck and made the game much less enjoyable for me. It undid everything the character system did well. What good is making difficult choices in character building, when the primary application of skills (combat) is not representative of the effort?

 

[hiver]

What do you mean by 'crazy questions', exactly?

- some happy middle ground between being rabidly berserk and all proper and dandy could be achieved?

That's why I asked, I was looking for a more precise answer, and not some vague description that includes everything in between 2 extremely different types of interviewing, hence the 'exactly'. But whatever.

Yeah? Would you want a music wish to go with it too?
Something from Avril Lavigne maybe?

How could i tell you exactly? Am i telepathic? Or did you expect me to come up with all questions myself?

-people throw in their questions just like everyone did here and Bee and others decide which to take which not to.-

mind blown?

 

[Crooked Bee]

I'd love to do a more informal interview, but 1. Blizzard PR is looking for neutral questions, not buddy talk; 2. It'd be really hard -- for me, at least -- to strike a balance between 'casualness' and politeness. As a non-native speaker, I'd rather not enter that territory; appearing rude would not be a good idea, as you'll probably agree. I believe the interview is a good read as it is, and I'd rather play it safe.

That said,

I wish there were questions about all these details. Mind that the next time you interview an ex-Troika/Interplay.

I'd love to ask Tim Cain about things like that, so if I manage to arrange an interview with him at some point, I'll be sure to PM you -- provided you can formulate such questions in a non-aggressive/non-offensive manner. This is an interview, not an interrogation, after all. If you (or I when editing the questions) can pull it off, I'll be happy to include your questions.

 

[hiver]

Of course i get it Bee. I said so. And the interview was fine.

Im just making little suggestions... and stuffies.

btw... that kind of "tongue in cheek or informal" stuff could go over much better if you would put it in two groups of questions. Like serious interview questions on one side and "buddy-lulz-whatever-you-want-to-call-it" questions in separate field with disclaimer attached saying they can answer those in any way, order or amount they want - which will then be separated in "buddy section" (or something), of interview when you publish it, so nobody mistakes it for serious stuff.

Actually... hey... im going to send a request for dozen or so interviews like that to HBO...

 

[villain of the story]

I think there should be intentionally ambiguous questions and who better than Kris Peysen to write them? He could turn the tables on those motherfuckers with explosive killer questions like:

1) First, tell me a little ahout yourself. And when I say tell me about yourself, I mean tell me what your role is on Human Revolution and what you’re directly responsible for. This way we’ll have someone to blame if the game doesn’t meet our expectations.

3) Speaking of choices, you’ve done a good job so far of showing different ways to play the game, but we haven’t yet seen anything regarding story branching based on dialogue or actions taken throughout the game. Do you think you could give an example of one of those? Come on, give us something juicy.

7) I mentioned that Deus Ex 2 was too short earlier. It was about a 15 hour experience, whereas Deus Ex 1 was more like a 40 hour experience. So just how long is Human Revolution? Bonus points if you can avoid the usual “well it all depends on how you play” PR-speak.

13) So, regeneration has obviously been confirmed, though exact details have not been forthcoming. It is stated that it “won’t be like CoD,” but doesn’t go into any more detail. So let’s just cut the bullshit and get right to it - how long does it take for regeneration to kick in and how fast does it work?

 

[Outlander]

What do you mean by 'crazy questions', exactly?

- some happy middle ground between being rabidly berserk and all proper and dandy could be achieved?

That's why I asked, I was looking for a more precise answer, and not some vague description that includes everything in between 2 extremely different types of interviewing, hence the 'exactly'. But whatever.

Yeah? Would you want a music wish to go with it too?
Something from Avril Lavigne maybe?

How could i tell you exactly? Am i telepathic? Or did you expect me to come up with all questions myself?

A simple example would have been enough, how was that not clear from the beginning? Anyway, no reason to act all butthurt about it dude.

 

[4too]

Half Empty / Half Full




Half full?

I find this detail in the making of FO , well, an exciting addition to the fan knowledge base.

… I remember specifically that there was nothing in the Brotherhood of Steel apart from the NPCs with talking heads – and we were supposed to be shipping soon. So Jason and I, with the unbounded arrogance of youth, decided we were going to start writing and editing dialogues and adding quests for the game. And so I became a game designer. …

...

I’m not going to try to write an exhaustive list of what I designed/wrote in Fallout, as that would be, well, exhausting. When I think about all the writing we did on Fallout, the first things that always come to mind were the edits we had to do for the talking head conversations. A lot of times the conversations didn’t make sense or deliver the information they were supposed to, but they had already been recorded and we didn’t have the budget to rerecord them – so we had to go in and edit/rewrite the player responses and rearrange the NPC lines so that the conversations worked. In some instances, like Vree, the information we wanted to impart to the player just wasn’t there so I had to add her assistant (Sophia, I think?) so that there was at least an NPC around who did have the necessary info. And she wasn’t the only one—we had to add several NPCs with vital information that was supposed to be covered with the talking heads but for some reason wasn’t. …
…

Half empty?

This spot light on the game's construction may distract a player's focus to the patchy seams of the cut and paste assembly,
or game play may recover primary consciousness / control and all this information, this data dump, may blend back into the experiential forth wall.

Or picture this:

Be obsessed with the endless protrusion of road apples and copious farts,

or get on the Pony and ride.

Design by committee and getting on with the game,

may depend on our acceptance of the art of collage.



4too

 

[DwarvenFood]

Half Empty / Half Full

You forgot the Full Empty :stalker:

 

[hiver]

A simple example would have been enough, how was that not clear from the beginning? Anyway, no reason to act all butthurt about it dude.

Shhhh! Shut up dumbass... 4too is talking.
Also, butthurt cant be hidden by trying to transplant it to others so easily.

now, go away.
Youre obstructing my view.

Half Empty / Half Full
Half full?

I find this detail in the making of FO , well, an exciting addition to the fan knowledge base.

… I remember specifically that there was nothing in the Brotherhood of Steel apart from the NPCs with talking heads – and we were supposed to be shipping soon. So Jason and I, with the unbounded arrogance of youth, decided we were going to start writing and editing dialogues and adding quests for the game. And so I became a game designer. …

...

I’m not going to try to write an exhaustive list of what I designed/wrote in Fallout, as that would be, well, exhausting. When I think about all the writing we did on Fallout, the first things that always come to mind were the edits we had to do for the talking head conversations. A lot of times the conversations didn’t make sense or deliver the information they were supposed to, but they had already been recorded and we didn’t have the budget to rerecord them – so we had to go in and edit/rewrite the player responses and rearrange the NPC lines so that the conversations worked. In some instances, like Vree, the information we wanted to impart to the player just wasn’t there so I had to add her assistant (Sophia, I think?) so that there was at least an NPC around who did have the necessary info. And she wasn’t the only one—we had to add several NPCs with vital information that was supposed to be covered with the talking heads but for some reason wasn’t. …
…

Half empty?

This spot light on the game's construction may distract a player's focus to the patchy seams of the cut and paste assembly,
or game play may recover primary consciousness / control and all this information, this data dump, may blend back into the experiential forth wall.
Be obsessed with the endless protrusion of road apples and copious farts,
or get on the Pony and ride.

Design by committee and getting on with the game,
may depend on our acceptance of the art of collage.

4too

Nicely put, and may be a good spot to return to the theme that far more satisfying than butts in pain.

Of course, after recent Tim Cain rundown on design of the game, and previous snippets acquired all over, this is nothing new to me.
I keep repeating these insights to everyone complaining about this or that feature, dialogue or scene in the games... but to little avail.

Well, some maybe gets through but consumerism.... is a tough disease to chew through.


As for design by committee, that favorite of phrases, i certainly would not mind another designed by that particular committee, at least the one doing the first game.

 

[Outlander]

lol hiver cannot into reason and overreacts like a hysterical girl, more news at 11.

 

[hiver]

cant you keep those projections private?

 

[Johannes]

Obsidian's Kickstarter game will be a shitty RTwP game with decent to good writing, good quests but everything else shit. They won't even do TB. I know they have TinCan onboard now but let's get one thing clear:

TinCan was involved with the following five games: Fallout, Fallout 2, Arcanum, TOEE, Bloodlines. Fallout and Fallout 2 had acceptable casual TB combat. They had many exploits and crowds was a drag but it was servicable and enjoyable. Now, Arcanum had shit combat, Bloodlines had shit combat and TOEE was only a solid and faithful DnD impelementation; nothing original in there. So, to score TinCan's talent on writing combat systems, it's like +1, +1, -1, -1, +0 = 0

It will be interesting to see how combat in that Kickstarter game will turn out.

ToEE combat was really good for the most part, but Fallout combat is crap. It couldn't even really be saved with extraordinary effort put into encounter design since the fundamentals are so shallow.

So one can only hope they won't let Timmy design the combat systems of their future games, either someone else at Obsidian is put in charge of that, or they license a system from somewhere. Maybe they should hire KoTC guy or something.

 

[Oriental European]

we have only two examples of TinCan writing a combat system from ground up and they both ended up SHIT

I have no problem with young people, but i do have problem with people who imply any knowledge in anything and then try to use words and phrases like SHIT, LOL WAT, NIGGA PLEASE and CONSOLE CRAP as arguments.

I'd love to ask Tim Cain about things like that, so if I manage to arrange an interview with him at some point, I'll be sure to PM you -- provided you can formulate such questions in a non-aggressive/non-offensive manner.

If he could formulate them, he'd post 'em already.

 

[hiver]

Fallout combat was pretty great - then. Especially considering how that game was designed and developed. Some history facts codex juveniles? Facts... ever heard of that?
What is actually CRAP is that it wasnt improved since then except in Tactics.... which had its own set of issues.

 

[Johannes]

When playing a game, why would you care about how it was developed or how revolutionary it once was? Either it's fun or it isn't.

There wasn't anything special about specifically the combat system, except for how often it could be skipped. I loved the game overall but was bored with the fighting part of it back then too.
No tactical depth to be found, just attack over and over, take cover behind corners and use stimpacks. Then watch the annoyingly slow moving enemy animations, and occasionally some death animations too which are actually the best part of the combat experience.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Then watch the annoyingly slow moving enemy animations,

Speed slider all the way to the right. I never thought it's too slow if I set it that way.