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Codex Review RPG Codex Retrospective Review: Pillars of Eternity Revisited

CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,626
I don't care about the PoE part, but I highly disagree with what comes before it.
Nostalgia was the last remaining barrier between cynical rejection and adoration for several games that I used to like. Neverwinter Nights, for example, plays poorly and the story is a cavalcade of the worst fantasy clichés, yet it takes itself seriously. I also recently replayed the original Knights of the Old Republic, which was a thoroughly disappointing experience. The gameplay is an awkward abomination of over-the-shoulder shooting and tactical RPG.
NWN and Kotor are terrible and always were.
Other games that still hold up as a whole show cracks where none were visible before.
Citation needed
The combat of the Might & Magic series has very little interesting going on and rarely takes advantage of the game's luxurious spell selection.
Nothing new.
Westwood's 'Lands of Lore' is pretty, but otherwise the game pales when compared to other, better games in its genre.
Not really, Lands of Lore has pretty good level design, it's one of the rare RT blobbers which come close to Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes back. Its combat part was never great.
One such better game is Wizardry 8, but excepting the most fanatic fans, anyone who has played it will admit that this old-school titan has an excessive amount of fights that take needlessly long to complete
Nothing new.
Though it amounts to heresy around these parts, even mighty Fallout has blemishes: simplistic combat and a shallow, unbalanced character system being the worst.
Nonsense, and I'm not particularly a Fallout fanboy. Combat is fine and adapted, and at least for a couple of playthrough the character system is certainly not shallow. I don't know what you exactly mean by unbalanced character system, but for sure you can at least play as a brute, or as a diplomat, and in both cases the game is fun, and many non-combat skills are actually used here and there.
The part of adulthood that is harshest towards enjoyment of video games is developing the curiosity to sample some actual great literature and watch a few of the choicest films. Exposition to actual quality might bring you to the realization that the games industry is stuck in a juvenile rut, and has been since the inception of the medium. These days, I find that nearly no piece of entertainment that I used to enjoy as a kid can withstand the full thrust of adult cynicism.
If you want.
Except, perhaps, the Infinity Engine games.
Wait, what? Everything but the IE games, really?
Excepting Planescape: Torment, none of them certainly constitute art in any sense of the word.
Talking like some random PC gamer journalist won't reinforce you points.
The first Baldur's Gate, for instance, takes you on what might be the closest video games have ever gotten to recreating the immaculate excitement of the earliest D&D adventure modules.
More than Pool of Radiance? Don't make me laugh.
All that is absent is starting the party at an inn.
Yes, and to some extend it kills the game, and it's even truer in Baldur's Gate 2. And the turn-based combat is absent too, of course, combat in BG is fun but not better that what we got before so there's no reason praising it.
That part is delayed until an hour into the game, where you pick up Khalid and Jaheira, whose story around a table filled with character sheets, dice and empty coke cans would most certainly begin with the words "you're sitting in an inn. Gorion's ward enters."
That's the most retarded statement in the review. "You know there's a inn somewhere, and you can even recruit pregenerated characters, so it's exactly like you made your party and started in an inn". No it's not the same.
Bringing up the rear, Planescape: Torment has by far the weakest gameplay but the strongest story and one I was surprised to find, when I replayed it last year, holds up to the scrutiny of a critical adult, now well-versed in media that aspire to more than entertainment.
Playing video games not first and foremost for entertainement is completely stupid.
It also starts to show the path that will ultimately doom BioWare's brand of RPGs, with a few of the companions acting like annoying and whiny teenagers in the middle of a world-shaking conflict.
Yes, and it's a big deal.
In all but Torment's case, the IE games' conceit of coupling modern RTS-like gameplay with the tactical, squad-based combat of traditional D&D succeeds completely, despite the concept being so at odds with itself. The games give you the frantic thrills of StarCraft's rushed micromanagement with greater input required per unit and the tactical control of a pause-button.
And why would I want rushed micromanagement and dumbbed-down input required per unit?
By the way, Darklands is a forgotten gem that any IE-fan should definitely go play.
No, Darklands is pretty good, but players don't play it for its bad rtwp combat, they play it for everything else, which don't belong in the IE games. Recommending Darklands to IE-Fans is nonsense.
Somehow, even the terribly outdated character system – "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd edition" – with its poor balance
Poor balance? Are you serious?
It is impossible to make a concise statement on the vision behind Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, because their simply was none. In the rulebook's foreword, creator Gary Gygax speaks of a creating a consistent framework for games, of adding uniformity to campaigns and of shedding the arbitrary distinctions so often present in rules systems at the time. He even speaks of the need for BALANCE™, which is ironic since it has made the Lead Designer of Pillars of Eternity, Josh Sawyer, so reviled by the same grognards who revere Gygax and who claim system design was perfected with AD&D.
Oh yes, the balance meme, you know they're talking about different things.
To start with, AD&D's biggest sin is that it is arbitrary in the most literal sense of the word: "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system." The irony that Gygax himself mentions arbitrariness as a hazard to avoid in system design is completely baffling considering the fact that arbitrariness might well be considered the defining trait of AD&D.

Why do all attributes go from 3 to 25 specifically? Why does Strength have a special 01-100 sub-attribute only if you are a specific class and only if you have a score of exactly 18? What is the reasoning behind the reversal of the to-hit roll, asking you to go backwards on the number line instead of forward? Why do Clerics only have access to seven spell levels while Wizards have access to nine? Why do you roll for hit points until level 10 at which point you gain minor, static increases? Why does a Ranger need 150,000 experience points to progress from level 8 to 9, while a Wizard needs 45,000? Why must an Illusionist have a minimum Dexterity of 16? Why do Clerics gain bonus spells for high Wisdom, while a Wizard gains no similar bonus for high Intelligence? Why is it easier to save against the same spell cast from a rod or wand rather than if a mage cast it? Why is the difficulty of resisting a spell based solely on the target's level and not on the caster's? Why are certain combinations of multi-classing restricted from certain races? Why does dual-classing work on an entirely separate system, and how do you forget everything you learned about shooting a bow and arrow because you decide after 10 years of rangering to pick up clericing? Why is there a specific attribute for "bending bars" and why is it handled by a percentile roll when "Open Doors" is not? Why do thieving-abilities work on a completely different, percentile-based system compared to other skills and class features?

Why, why, why, why, why?
Because it works.

Most of the very best tactical cRPGs of the past are great despite the shackles of AD&D, not because of them.
No, you're wrong. They're good because of very good balance and decent variety, thanks to AD&D.

The fact is, though, that AD&D is massively inferior to nearly every rules system that has followed it.
No it's not.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
If not for Crooked Bee Infinitron wouldn't have that much influence. Someone has to approve these shit news and allow for inXile/Obsidian spam (plus high-profile Kickstarter spams for games with budgets 1 M $ and more), if you ask me that someone is the main culprit and the reason that this site is becoming another IGN/NeoGaf.

Notice that in the age of incline votes, Crooked Bee gave PoE a 5 and Tyranny a 4. The list of people who gave PoE a 4 includes Zed, Felipepepe, Jedi Exile, and Mastermind. So yeah, they are trying really hard to make this place into a Obsidian central fanboy club, and they will treat the next PoE as a classic on release. They couldn't believe their luck when people decide to use Infinitron as a scapegoat for their sins.

"Hi, my name is Infinitron!"

ext
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,826
Location
Copenhagen
So I'm on a small island (4,5 square kilometers) currently and have no internet except when, like now, I stand at the southern beach on a huge boulder with my phone up in the air so I'm going to keep this brief and just say I liked my original title better but you can't win 'em all

Glad to see that as the world changes, Codex remains Codex :love:

^ u r respoding to gaylord who runs a facebook baulder gay fan page...

Haven't run that for years
 

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,572
Location
Poland
They couldn't believe their luck when you decide to ise Infinitron as a scapegoat for their sins.
As can be seen in this thread Codexers are in general satisfied with his work (currently it's 50-50 but it's too small of a sample to say) but IMO he's been a spammer for quite some time now. What's worse however is that he doesn't post news that can't be found on any other site, like with Arcanum High Resolution Patch. There should be someone who would post news like that.

As for Crooked Bee, I know about her and as I've said here, IMO she's even worse.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/codex-is-looking-for-news-posters.116230/
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
Though it amounts to heresy around these parts, even mighty Fallout has blemishes: simplistic combat and a shallow, unbalanced character system being the worst.
Nonsense, and I'm not particularly a Fallout fanboy. Combat is fine and adapted, and at least for a couple of playthrough the character system is certainly not shallow. I don't know what you exactly mean by unbalanced character system, but for sure you can at least play as a brute, or as a diplomat, and in both cases the game is fun, and many non-combat skills are actually used here and there.

Except, perhaps, the Infinity Engine games.
Wait, what? Everything but the IE games, really?

The first Baldur's Gate, for instance, takes you on what might be the closest video games have ever gotten to recreating the immaculate excitement of the earliest D&D adventure modules.
More than Pool of Radiance? Don't make me laugh.

By the way, Darklands is a forgotten gem that any IE-fan should definitely go play.
No, Darklands is pretty good, but players don't play it for its bad rtwp combat, they play it for everything else, which don't belong in the IE games. Recommending Darklands to IE-Fans is nonsense.

So he badmouth Fallout to make IE games look good, place Darklands among IE games because it has RTwP and praises BG as a masterpiece. IEfags are fucking degenerates.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
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Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,473
So he badmouth Fallout to make IE games look good, place Darklands among IE games because it has RTwP and praises BG as a masterpiece. IEfags are fucking degenerate.

You didn't even read the article you're criticizing now?

It never ceases to amaze me how pathetic you are :lol:
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
As can be seen in this thread Codexers are in general satisfied with his work (currently it's 50-50 but it's too small of a sample to say) but IMO he's been a spammer for quite some time now. What's worse however is that he doesn't post news that can't be found on any other site, like with Arcanum High Resolution Patch. There should be someone who would post news like that.

As for Crooked Bee, I know about her and as I've said here, IMO she's even worse.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/codex-is-looking-for-news-posters.116230/

In all fairness, infinitron posts everything for the most part: the good stuff and the bad stuff. What is naive is thinking that he is not being supported when he is posting the bad stuff.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
7,021
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
the complete lack of most kinds of crowd control outside

You can finish a lot of encounters without letting enemy make a single move if you chain your crowd control spells. There is no lack of crowd control, in fact its abudance trivialises a lot of direct damage spells because in PoTD it's almost always better, if not necessary to debuff the enemy and lock them down, both aoe CC and longer single target CC. You can CC a single target for 20 seconds with a single spell.
 

torpid

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
1,099
Location
Isma's Grove
I haven't played PoE so I can't offer an opinion on the game, but the biggest problem with this review is that before even taking on PoE Grunker forces the reader to accept his premise that most (all?) of the older games actually kind of suck except the IE games. It's all nostalgia except for the reviewer's favorite oldies--convenient! Personally, I loved the BG games back in the day but now cannot stand RTwP. So having to accept the reviewer's fiat that only the IE games hold up (and therefore, implicitly, PoE is good because it lives up to the spirit of the IE games while improving the mechanics) is a turn-off from the get-go. And it sets Grunker up for what seems like an over-the-top conclusion, that PoE is the best RPG: since the IE games are the only good RPGs, and PoE now surpasses them after multiple iterations, it can only be number one.
 
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Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,473
You didn't even read the article you're criticizing now?

Unless these quotes are false, I'm not wrong.

How about reading the article yourself, instead of blindly believing a random poster, just because he's saying something you would like to agree with?
then it's pointless to quote any scholars instead of researching this or that on your own

CryptRat is a scholar now? :lol:
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,175
Location
Eastern block
Albeit highly amusing, this article piece of PR is somewhat disappointing.

Infinitron must have skipped classes often at the Cucksidian shill college. Educated shills are more elegant... insert a piece here and there... conveniently. You're supposed to insinuate, indicate & imply... use the indirect approach. Not write straightforward fellatios such as, OH MUH GERD Sawyer is the best designer in the industry, or Nothing can question PoE's eternal "success" . :lol::lol::lol: God.
 
Unwanted

Janise

Unwanted
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
727
Actually playing Pillars of Eternity: The White March reminds me why I still own a PC. Nothing less.

tenor.gif


Blackguards 2 has better combat than Piece of Shit White Cum, and thats saying a bunch...
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
100,049
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Albeit highly amusing, this article piece of PR is somewhat disappointing.

Infinitron must have skipped classes often at the Cucksidian shill college. Educated shills are more elegant... insert a piece here and there... conveniently. You're supposed to insinuate, indicate & imply... use the indirect approach. Not write straightforward fellatios such as, OH MUH GERD Sawyer is the best designer in the industry, or Nothing can question PoE's eternal "success" . :lol::lol::lol: God.

Secret post from staff forums:

eOqoEeE.png
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,525
Albeit highly amusing, this article piece of PR is somewhat disappointing.

Infinitron must have skipped classes often at the Cucksidian shill college. Educated shills are more elegant... insert a piece here and there... conveniently. You're supposed to insinuate, indicate & imply... use the indirect approach. Not write straightforward fellatios such as, OH MUH GERD Sawyer is the best designer in the industry, or Nothing can question PoE's eternal "success" . :lol::lol::lol: God.

Just take a look at your own and your friend's Goral the Shill's failures, you really shouldn't be giving out advice to anyone.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,175
Location
Eastern block
Secret post from staff forums:

eOqoEeE.png


That sounds jewish as fuck ...

Secret post from staff forums shill central: "Hey Shamuel, did you read the instructions? I want to act soon. They are rekting us , better hurry with the propaganda pamphlets " :lol::lol:
 
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