Review RPG Codex Review: Darth Roxor on Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity

[Irenaeus]

PoE is so thin it can pass between two closely parked cars.

 

[Kattze]

For those who complain that combat is too fast, just use the slow mode.

Also, I'd recommend fast mode outside of combat to walk faster across maps you have already explored. The game remembers that combat has slow mode and that outside of combat it is fast mode.

It seems that some people got so hyped up for POE for a long time (Sensuki) that their expectations were way beyond reasonable. It's similar to Blaine spending a thousand bucks on Wasteland 2 and then hating it. Both games are far from perfect, but still very good and way better than 99.9% of other games that came out in the last 10 years.

Blaine spent 1000 bucks on Wasteland 2? Why?

And Lady Error have you played MMX: Legacy? It's very good, and superior to Wasteland 2

 

[hiver]

When you claim the same stupid shit that you do thats the only conclusion.

truth be told i wasnt even referencing you specifically at first but you

saudações do Brasil

Oh, you're posting images now. You're really taking the ownage to the next level. :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

I have to ask, why did the codex feature such a praising apologetic review of Wasteland 2, which was arguably a mediocre product,

Tell me some here aren't bet on sucking that fucking greaseball's snake oil salesman dick.

Blame VD, the same guy that was to give 11/10 to PoE instead of Roxor.

Except I wasn't but who cares, right? The drama demands it!

VD, love your game but the butthurt of buying Wasteland 2 because of your review will never pass. Never!

From the review:

For instance, the main issue I have with it is that the skills are completely disconnected from the stats. The stats don’t determine the starting values of skills (which would have made the stats more useful), don’t give bonuses to skills and don’t play any role in non-combat activities. ... Another issue is that not all stats are created equally....
...
One of the issues I have with the game is random loot. Every time you open a trapped strongbox, a well-locked safe protected by a state-of-the-wasteland-art alarm system or dig out someone’s stash, invisible dice will be rolled, determining which pile of crap to reward you with this time. ... Basically, it’s a good example of a minor decision undermining the character system instead of strengthening it the way everything else does.
...
The combat system is fairly straightforward: attack until you run out of action points... Thus, your choices are limited to positioning and weapons.
...
Design-wise, the true power comes not from skills (they boost your accuracy and critical chance) but from better weapons and having enough hit points to match the ever-increasing damage coming your way.
...
The biggest problem is that the AI is often at odds with itself – enemies act as (suicidal) individuals rather than as a group. It cannot form cohesive strategies, like maintaining positions or targeting individuals, which means that the game needs to rely on increasingly larger numbers – more damage, more hit points, more enemies – instead of smarter strategies.
...
Unfortunately, the skill checks are fairly sporadic and stat checks are extremely rare.
...
Unfortunately, quite often, the quests feel like uncomplicated, post-apocalyptic versions of the TV show Cops. You're instructed to do something – save the AG Center, set up the radio, clean up the prison, save the L'eve Lupe Mines (nobody needed this pun FYI). ... In many cases, these well-worn formulas aren’t used in new or interesting ways, but merely occupy game space, giving you ‘stuff to do’. The contrast with truly exceptional areas couldn’t be starker.
...
Does it mean that you’re going to like it? It depends entirely on your expectations. If you expected a long overdue sequel or a game that allows you to chart your own course, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. If you expected a game like [Fallout / Jagged Alliance / ‘best game evar’], you might be disappointed.

To sum up:

- unbalanced stats, disconnected skills
- simplistic combat system relying on HP bloat and more powerful weapons
- non-existent AI
- rare skill checks
- simplistic filler quests
- useless junk in containers

In other words, a fitting and faithful sequel to Wasteland delivering more of the same. Buy it if you loved Wasteland and want to party like it's 1987. Don't buy it if you expect a game like Fallout or JA2.

I assume you weren't a fan of Wasteland or never played it.

 

[Kz3r0]

Blame VD, the same guy that was to give 11/10 to PoE instead of Roxor.

Except I wasn't but who cares, right? The drama demands it!

What, are you going to giuve more than 11/10, da faq?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nothing less than 15/10 would do it justice.

 

[almondblight]

When did the characterization of VD change from "the guy who hates every game" to "the guy who loves every game"?

 

[Menckenstein]

When did the characterization of VD change from "the guy who hates every game" to "the guy who loves every game"?

Old man got soft.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

- unbalanced stats, disconnected skills

Despite the fact that the [character] system has a number of issues, it’s one of the most enjoyable systems in recent memory (if not the most). The foundation is rock solid; it just needs more fine-tuning and balance.

- simplistic combat system relying on HP bloat and more powerful weapons

the [combat] system relies more on handcrafted design rather than complex mechanics, which works well in Wasteland 2.

- non-existent AI

There is a fairly large variety of enemies in the game, so you won’t be disappointed.

- rare skill checks

Most skills are useful, used often, and require constant investing, which is a good thing.

- simplistic filler quests

When you start playing the game, two things become obvious: the abundance of choices and remarkable, even unprecedented reactivity.

Not necessarily saying you're contradicting yourself, but at least post the link to your review when you're cherry-picking so we can cherry-pick back . http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9686

 

[Vault Dweller]

When did the characterization of VD change from "the guy who hates every game" to "the guy who loves every game"?

Well, you see, me and 800 other people who voted for WL2 (but clearly it's just me) have failed the Codex (represented by a few individuals who absolutely hated WL2). Some went as far as to claim that WL2 getting all them votes is my fault too.

So these same individuals, who are responsible for voting BG into the Codex Hall of Fame, are very upset that PoE isn't as awesome as the shitty BG games. I mentioned that it's better than BG, which caused massive butthurt but everyone knows that BG is 10/10 and nothing can beat the perfection.

 

[Irenaeus]

WL2 is very very good. It's just that PoE is much better.

 

[DeepOcean]

So these same individuals, who are responsible for voting BG into the Codex Hall of Fame, are very upset that PoE isn't as awesome as the shitty BG games. I mentioned that it's better than BG, which caused massive butthurt but everyone knows that BG is 10/10 and nothing can beat the perfection.

I sense a Biawic in the air, better to run for the ruin VD.

 

[Seari]

but everyone knows that BG is 10/10 and nothing can beat the perfection.

Probably not, simply because the older games were made by passionate gamers for gamers, while todays game's are made for casuals.

 

[Vault Dweller]

This thread is now about WL2.

- unbalanced stats, disconnected skills

"Despite the fact that the [character] system has a number of issues, it’s one of the most enjoyable systems in recent memory (if not the most). The foundation is rock solid; it just needs more fine-tuning and balance."

I enjoyed it much more than I enjoyed PoE system. Doesn't change the fact that it's unbalanced and the stats are disconnected.

- simplistic combat system relying on HP bloat and more powerful weapons

the [combat] system relies more on handcrafted design rather than complex mechanics, which works well in Wasteland 2.

Where is the contradiction? The system itself is very simple and it had to be mentioned to let people know that if they're looking for complexity, they should look elsewhere. The fact that it doesn't rely on complex mechanics is fairly damning in itself, but they do manage to set up pretty cool fights that I enjoyed (which is more than can be said about PoE).

- non-existent AI

There is a fairly large variety of enemies in the game, so you won’t be disappointed.

Shit, son, you don't know how to read or what?

Diablo 3 also has a large variety of enemies but shitty AI. Basically, WL2 shows how to do more with less. PoE shows how to do less with more. Instead of relying on AI or special abilities, WL2 enemies get weapons that determine their roles and pose different threats to you.

- rare skill checks

Most skills are useful, used often, and require constant investing, which is a good thing.

IIRC, I was talking about dialogue skills.

- simplistic filler quests

When you start playing the game, two things become obvious: the abundance of choices and remarkable, even unprecedented reactivity.

The game does have unprecedented reactivity (again, much better than PoE) and tons of choices, but overall the quest design is fairly simplistic and uninspiring (few exceptions apply).

 

[Vault Dweller]

but everyone knows that BG is 10/10 and nothing can beat the perfection.

Probably not, simply because the older games were made by passionate gamers for gamers, while todays game's are made for casuals.

Yeah, BG was a hardcore RPG, especially compared to the casual shite like Realms of Arkania, Wizardry, and Darklands.

 

[Irenaeus]

 

[MF]

This thread is now about WL2.
I enjoyed it much more than I enjoyed PoE system. Doesn't change the fact that it's unbalanced and the stats are disconnected.

The game does have unprecedented reactivity (again, much better than PoE) and tons of choices, but overall the quest design is fairly simplistic and uninspiring (few exceptions apply).

This. WL2 was flawed in so many more ways than PoE I can't even begin to count, but when all is said and done, it was more fun. I actually gave a fuck about what happened, the world actually responded to what my character was doing and I actually had memorable moments. It felt more like a game.

In all his efforts to prevent hard counter 'rock, paper scissors' gameplay, Sawyer ended up with Tic Tac Toe.

 

[Hatred]

Ok I am going to start laying in popcorn supplies for when the next review hits.

 

[Seari]

but everyone knows that BG is 10/10 and nothing can beat the perfection.

Probably not, simply because the older games were made by passionate gamers for gamers, while todays game's are made for casuals.

Yeah, BG was a hardcore RPG, especially compared to the casual shite like Realms of Arkania, Wizardry, and Darklands.

Doesn't change my point.

 

[Black]

At least I got a new sig thanks to this thread. 66+ pages of butthurt just for this, worth it.

 

[hiver]

I have to ask, why did the codex feature such a praising apologetic review of Wasteland 2, which was arguably a mediocre product,

Tell me some here aren't bet on sucking that fucking greaseball's snake oil salesman dick.

Blame VD, the same guy that was to give 11/10 to PoE instead of Roxor.

Except I wasn't but who cares, right? The drama demands it!

VD, love your game but the butthurt of buying Wasteland 2 because of your review will never pass. Never!

From the review:

For instance, the main issue I have with it is that the skills are completely disconnected from the stats. The stats don’t determine the starting values of skills (which would have made the stats more useful), don’t give bonuses to skills and don’t play any role in non-combat activities. ... Another issue is that not all stats are created equally....
...
One of the issues I have with the game is random loot. Every time you open a trapped strongbox, a well-locked safe protected by a state-of-the-wasteland-art alarm system or dig out someone’s stash, invisible dice will be rolled, determining which pile of crap to reward you with this time. ... Basically, it’s a good example of a minor decision undermining the character system instead of strengthening it the way everything else does.
...
The combat system is fairly straightforward: attack until you run out of action points... Thus, your choices are limited to positioning and weapons.
...
Design-wise, the true power comes not from skills (they boost your accuracy and critical chance) but from better weapons and having enough hit points to match the ever-increasing damage coming your way.
...
The biggest problem is that the AI is often at odds with itself – enemies act as (suicidal) individuals rather than as a group. It cannot form cohesive strategies, like maintaining positions or targeting individuals, which means that the game needs to rely on increasingly larger numbers – more damage, more hit points, more enemies – instead of smarter strategies.
...
Unfortunately, the skill checks are fairly sporadic and stat checks are extremely rare.
...
Unfortunately, quite often, the quests feel like uncomplicated, post-apocalyptic versions of the TV show Cops. You're instructed to do something – save the AG Center, set up the radio, clean up the prison, save the L'eve Lupe Mines (nobody needed this pun FYI). ... In many cases, these well-worn formulas aren’t used in new or interesting ways, but merely occupy game space, giving you ‘stuff to do’. The contrast with truly exceptional areas couldn’t be starker.
...
Does it mean that you’re going to like it? It depends entirely on your expectations. If you expected a long overdue sequel or a game that allows you to chart your own course, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. If you expected a game like [Fallout / Jagged Alliance / ‘best game evar’], you might be disappointed.

To sum up:

- unbalanced stats, disconnected skills
- simplistic combat system relying on HP bloat and more powerful weapons
- non-existent AI
- rare skill checks
- simplistic filler quests
- useless junk in containers

In other words, a fitting and faithful sequel to Wasteland delivering more of the same. Buy it if you loved Wasteland and want to party like it's 1987. Don't buy it if you expect a game like Fallout or JA2.

I assume you weren't a fan of Wasteland or never played it.

what a hypocrite and what a sales pitch...

Look on the works of baatezu and see them for what they are, you poor petitioners and lemures.

: Casts Greater Dispel Magic, Dispel law, True Sight, Dimensional Anchor, Protection from Law, Chaos Hammer :

And In Conclusion

We can analyze the design to death and rejoice finding various shortcomings, but here is a simple and honest-to-God reason why I really liked Wasteland 2.

Then I tried Wasteland 2 and couldn’t stop playing. The more I played, the more I wanted to. It’s a wonderful yet rare feeling that every gamer can relate to.

- meaning, if you cant relate to feeling great while playing shit, you are not a true gamer, mkay?

If you expected a long overdue sequel or a game that allows you to chart your own course, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

you cant chart any fucking course but go through convoluted utter stupid shit whatever you do.

If you expected a game like [Fallout / Jagged Alliance / ‘best game evar’], you might be disappointed.

Thats because you had unrealistic expectations, its your fault, not the game - you fools that expect perfection and completely different games.


What about if you just expect a good game?

Wasteland 2 isn't just important for being a good game, it's important for being the first stepping stone on the way to Wasteland 3, Pillars of Eternity, Torment 2,

If you think tides of numenera is Torment 2 then you are either a complete moron, or a complete shill, baatezu.

countless other RPGs that would have never been made if inXile hadn't taken the risk

What games? The non existing games that dont exist? That might exist in the future? That we have no way of knowing will they exist, what about they will be and if they will be any good?


What risk? The risk of having the development cycle paid upfront while they can do as they please with all of the development and get extra money after release?
While if they didnt take that risk... they would be still developing mobile games?

:Tanarrii rasping laughter:

This is the real and actual conclusion to that "review" as you can see for yourself now:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9686



Nothing but a vomit of declaratory statements and very stupid,distorted and ingorant opinions unsupported by anything except the fact that he liked the game. He enjoyed it - the review.
To be true, him enjoying it is not a problem at all. Enjoy whatever the fuck you want. Him trying to present that as actual quality, through this kind of arguments and this kind of shilling and fallacies - is.



One of those opinions is that according to VD... Philip K Dick just made "weird what if" stories - just like W2 does!

It’s a Philip K. Dick-esque version of post-apocalypse, governed not by the most likely survival scenarios but rather by “but what if…” possibilities; weird, strange, yet undeniably fun.

Most likely survival scenarios...? what the fucking fuckety fuck ?
Reducing a legendary science fiction writer like Philip to the garbage of wasteland 2? Equating his work with this shit?


A few more critiques from the review to get a bit more of truth in here:

Quest Design

When you start playing the game, two things become obvious: the abundance of choices and remarkable, even unprecedented reactivity.

hahahahaaaa....

Notice the classy wording too. Abundance, unprecedented reactivity.

Dialogues & Writing

The writing ranges from good to great,

And that paragraph about writing and dialogues is eight - 8 - sentences long, that tell you absolutely nothing about dialogues or the writing.


Compare this to that spin doctored sales pitch above yourself.

 

[karnak]

I still can't understand why people are wasting their time discussing this mediocre game, when it's entirely obvious that the best RPG ever made (after Ultima 9) it's NWN RPG Mystery Of The Lost Herbs

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Where is the contradiction?

Like I said, it wasn't about you contradicting yourself, just that your cherry-picking in response to someone saying they bought the game off of your recommendation seemed a bit heavy-handed.

edit: anyway, I think your review was relevant in the context of the importance of review "tone". You could read your review as "good for what it is", stupid retro Wasteland romp, but the tone says something different to (probably) most people.

I know that the logic of your reviews is that you're judging them within the context of budget/dev time/scope, and base your tone off of that, but that doesn't always come across.

 

[roshan]

I really don't see how POE is better than the BG games in any way... In fact it seems to be worse in every regard, if not an outright piece of shit failure. The only thing I can think of that's better in POE is graphics and the feats that you can pick upon levelup. And for fucks sake, both BG games were actually FUN, not masochistic experiences. And each of them excelled in particular aspects. But POE is a complete failure in every respect. Can someone "enlighten" me as to what exactly POE has managed to surpass either of the BG games in?

 

[DeepOcean]

But guise... Epic Soul music... DeepOcean suddenly wakes in the night, memories from a previous life come back to him, fragmented and blurred. He sees an old man, a man he think for a sage.

The old man friendly says: Did you finished reading the aged scrolls of decadance brother?

DeepOcean: Yes brother, they were a very illuminating reading. I learned of much about the wheel of choices and consequences.

The old man: Good... very good. I see you are a dedicated brother... Do you trust the Codexian Key, brother DeepOcean?

DeepOcean: With my whole heart.

The old man: Are you willing to do everything for the Kickstarer queen that was? To be a part of her flawless memory? To bring her back to her throne?

DeepOcean: That is all I ever wanted.

The Old man: I have an errand for you brother, on the ruins of Pillars of Wasteland, it will change your life forever. You are going to do kickstarter work tonight.

DeepOcean: And what this errand is?

The old man: There is a machine called Steam in there, you will give yourself to the kickstarter queen that was. May the essence of your wallet speed her return.

DeepOcean: You don't feel sure about this, the words of Roxor troubles you but you respect brother Dweller. Brother Dweller... can I ask you something?

Brother Dweller: If doubt clouds your judgement, brother, I'm happy to help you.

DeepOcean: I know that is heresy brother but so many good people had heard of the words of Roxor. They say the kickstarter gods legs are made of clay and they are false idols. They were the creations of old men from an old civilization called Interplay/Black Isle. That those men were driven insane by greed and power, that they created many old and powerful creations but ended on ruin and decay so they created the kickstarter gods to fool the believing into giving them a new life.

Brother Dweller smiles to you as a wise master hearing an apprentice saying foolish things. The heretics will be dealt in time bother DeepOcean. Don't worry about their lies, whatever this supposed great old civilization created, it can't rival with the divine work of the kickstarter gods. Have your faith as your shield and give yourself when the time is come.

Finaly, you awake from your feverish dream. The name... Brother Dweller... it lingers on your mind. It is a name that brings you hope and betrayal at same time.