Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Divinity: Original Sin 2

[J_C]

Has Darth Roxor finally jumped the shark? Oh yes he did.

jumped the shark and rode the tiger

 

[Shilandra]

I'm glad persuasion isn't rock paper scissors in this game considering that was one of the things I absolutely despised about div1 and my love of diplomatic solutions. Seeing as how persuasion is tied to different stats now are there multiple ways to persuade people within single dialogues? Like a guy wants your money but you can choose to intimidate or diplomacy or lying? Or does it mostly happen like you're only given one type of persuasion at a time?

 

[thesheeep]

Nah, he's just into hating this game. It's well known
It isn't that he's completely wrong, he is just - as you said - overly critical to the point of it being comedic.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Seeing as how persuasion is tied to different stats now are there multiple ways to persuade people within single dialogues? Like a guy wants your money but you can choose to intimidate or diplomacy or lying?

Yes, but it's typically the same choice repeated with different attributes.

[Persuasion + stranf] I order you to do as I say!
[Persuasion + wits] Come on, you want to do as I say!
[Persuasion + intelligence] Doesn't it make sense to do as I say?

etc.

 

[Shilandra]

Seeing as how persuasion is tied to different stats now are there multiple ways to persuade people within single dialogues? Like a guy wants your money but you can choose to intimidate or diplomacy or lying?

Yes, but it's typically the same choice repeated with different attributes.

[Persuasion + stranf] I order you to do as I say!
[Persuasion + wits] Come on, you want to do as I say!
[Persuasion + intelligence] Doesn't it make sense to do as I say?

etc.

Honestly, I'm pretty fine with that. At least it allows me to define the kind of person I'm playing more or less.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I do. If you douse the burning cursed piggus in Fort Goy, the undead lizard someone of BRACCUS REX!!! appears to ask wtf do you think you're doing. Successful [persuasion] lets you avoid the fight.

Ah, yes, that one. I didn't pass it this way, but saw my wife solve it without combat.

BTW, regarding what you wrote about people playing it on autopilot - she said she liked the game because she was able to play it with the morning coffee or while keeping one eye on the baby. She didn't even remember the initiative issue.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

You must have some kind of martyr complex if you played this thing all the way through.

He didn't.

Much like Roxor’s playthrough of DOS:2, I stopped reading his prolix review in the middle. Although if you ask me, 40 hours is about 25-30 too many.

I can’t think of a Divinity game that finishes stronger than it starts, although I couldn’t make myself finish the last quarter of D:OS. But that kind of illustrates my point. They frontload the best content.

I’ve never really understood the appeal of Larian; DD was decent, BD was underwhelming, DD2 was okay but becomes kind of boring once you get used to turning into a dragon. D:OS does many things right, but it never really gets any better than Cyseal. Even D:OS2’s biggest fans usually concede that the fort joy map is the best part.

Yes, but it's typically the same choice repeated with different attributes.

[Persuasion + stranf] I order you to do as I say!
[Persuasion + wits] Come on, you want to do as I say!
[Persuasion + intelligence] Doesn't it make sense to do as I say?

etc.

Hey, at least they’re using the stats for something!

It’s like they took the Sawyerization of skills and attributes to its logical conclusion: casuals hate making these character build decisions, and they really hate the risk of creating a non-viable character, so let’s create a system where all builds are viable because none of the stats have much of an impact. You can’t screw up a meaningless decision!

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yep, my estimate is the same. Larian has the creativity and systems design abilities to provide for 1/4 to 1/3 of the content of what's considered a full game. I think I wrote some time ago, that D:OS2 would have been a great decent game if it ended with the escape from the prison isle. This would have been before the stat bloat has developed into the ridiculous levels of the later stages, before items had scaled 20 times, before all the quest and ambush combat gimmicks had worn off, and with fewer iterations of the "animal is hurt, use perk" oh-so-original-encounter.

And it would have still been a no small game at all, if judged by the amount of content, replayability and time needed to finish it.

 

[Shilandra]

Yep, my estimate is the same. Larian has the creativity and systems design abilities to provide for 1/4 to 1/3 of the content of what's considered a full game. I think I wrote some time ago, that D:OS2 would have been a great decent game if it ended with the escape from the prison isle. This would have been before the stat bloat has developed into the ridiculous levels of the later stages, before items had scaled 20 times, before all the quest and ambush combat gimmicks had worn off, and with fewer iterations of the "animal is hurt, use perk" oh-so-original-encounter.

And it would have still been a no small game at all, if judged by the amount of content, replayability and time needed to finish it.

Maybe game companies can start working together to make multiple beginnings to games and mash them all together to make the perfect game that's fully engaging from start to finish?

Also you can use perks to help out the animals that get hurt? That's actually really good to know!

 

[Jimmious]

Obviously biased and completely focused on any possible negative issue of the game, as expected.
Still though well written and these things need to be told. Even if they won't be taken into account. Gj Darth Roxor

 

[Volrath]

Still game of the year.

Suck it (elex) faggots

 

[vivec]

Seeing as how persuasion is tied to different stats now are there multiple ways to persuade people within single dialogues? Like a guy wants your money but you can choose to intimidate or diplomacy or lying?

Yes, but it's typically the same choice repeated with different attributes.

[Persuasion + stranf] I order you to do as I say!
[Persuasion + wits] Come on, you want to do as I say!
[Persuasion + intelligence] Doesn't it make sense to do as I say?

etc.

Honestly, I'm pretty fine with that. At least it allows me to define the kind of person I'm playing more or less.

That's called LARPing around here. The game does not acknowledge your inner monologue.

 

[Mortmal]

And the Zionist Agenda is exposed.

Negotiations are on with Larian for neutral positive review.

Most certainly or if i were them i would completely ignore the codex from now on.

 

[Mark Richard]

Seeing as how persuasion is tied to different stats now are there multiple ways to persuade people within single dialogues? Like a guy wants your money but you can choose to intimidate or diplomacy or lying?

Yes, but it's typically the same choice repeated with different attributes.

[Persuasion + stranf] I order you to do as I say!
[Persuasion + wits] Come on, you want to do as I say!
[Persuasion + intelligence] Doesn't it make sense to do as I say?

etc.

Honestly, I'm pretty fine with that. At least it allows me to define the kind of person I'm playing more or less.

I don't think the persuasion options are equal though because there were times when a lower attribute score would achieve success, while the highest score with the same PC would not. It seems to depend on the situation. If you're talking to someone who's acting like a snivelling coward for example, a 20 strength check might loosen their tongue while a 30 dex check would not.

 

[Van-d-all]

Into the Breach:

But in the age of Jagged Alliance and X-Com and Battle Brothers, most look at RNG as a form of percentages, odds, and risk-taking. None of those reside within Into the Breach. Every single aspect of detail is covered with absolute determinism. Like any good puzzle game, things aren’t where they should be and you need to put the pieces where they rightfully fit. The schism between a good score and a smoldered run is solely the responsibility of the player. You have but the greatest weapon at your disposal: time. And, similar to the fantastic and also RNG-less Invisible Inc., there's an even more powerful tool you may be keen on using: the ability to revert time and restart at least one turn a fight.

Divinity Orginal Sin 2:

Reflecting on what I’ve written so far, I must admit, it’s almost impressive that the DOS1 combat formula could be downgraded so much, and that someone, somewhere, actually thought some of these changes were good ideas. The sad fact of the matter is that the combat mechanics in DOS2 are simplified to the point of stupidity. Everything is near-deterministic. To hit rolls might as well not exist. There’s no damage reduction other than elemental resistances. Spell failure and penetration doesn’t exist, neither do saving throws. The only remaining “random” element are damage thresholds, and that’s hardly anything to write about.

It’s a phenomenon I’ve been noticing for a while now among turn-based “tactical” games – this strange desire to remove any and all randomness. If you ask me, it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the genre is about. For starters, it’s well-known that no plan survives contact with the enemy, and randomness in tactical games is meant to simulate this. When everything can be solved by a Brilliant Strategy™ executed from start to finish without disruption, you are no longer playing a tactical game but a glorified puzzler, where everything is predictable and by extension repetitive. An important aspect of tactics is adjusting to unforeseen failures and complications, thinking on the fly how to turn a defeat around. In games like DOS2, that aspect is thrown out the window.

Oh, the consistency...

INB4 Yes, I know those were reviewed by two different people, but come the fuck on. At least try to work out a consensus as to what is incline and what isn't.

Still, a good read, because I think it's important to acknowledge and point out all of the game's issues, and damn it has a lot of those. At the same time, perception of their severity seems quite varied, and personally I didn't find many of them so staggering, to the point of actually liking the game, but indeed, it's hard to argue any of the points isn't true. That being said, one can only hope for a similarly honest review of Kindgom Come Deliverance...

 

[Grunker]

Roxor has a thing for generalizing his own preference, but saying that determinist system are somehow inherently worse than variance-based ones is one of the more absurd and obvious examples of this.

That said, I agree with most of his review.

And I keep hearing about bloat and inflated stats. How do players keep up if items and skills go up by small incremental amounts?

You change gear constantly. From a few hours into the game and forward, you will never be excited to see an item again, because you know it's up for replacement very soon.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Someone please post this excellent review on Larian forums, please. I’m getting a kick out of this. These deluded and irrational players defending this mainstream game are hilarious!

 

[J_C]

What is interesting is that according to this review this is a bad game, yet it won the GOTY poll with a landslide. What does this tell of the Codex?

 

[vivec]

Maybe it says that 2017 was bland and terrible overall?

 

[markec]

I assume that Infinitron will now hire a Larian fanboy to write a positive review.

 

[Pequod]

What is interesting is that according to this review this is a bad game, yet it won the GOTY poll with a landslide. What does this tell of the Codex?

That its populated by trash like you.

 

[Darth Roxor]

INB4 Yes, I know those were reviewed by two different people, but come the fuck on. At least try to work out a consensus as to what is incline and what isn't.

first we must define what is an rpg

What does this tell of the Codex?

it's no secret that the codex likes bad games

Roxor has a thing for generalizing his own preference, but saying that determinist system are somehow inherently worse than variance-based ones is one of the more absurd and obvious examples of this.

in an rpg: rng >>>>>>>>>>>>> determinism

however it has to be said that the way crpgs implement rng is usually tarded; there's a reason why you have fate points in most pnp systems - although a lot of this also stems from the st00p3d ways in which crpgs are structured

 

[Grunker]

What is interesting is that according to this review this is a bad game, yet it won the GOTY poll with a landslide. What does this tell of the Codex?

if popularity = quality Transformers would be this generation's strongest intellectual achievement

 

[Volrath]

I assume that Infinitron will now hire a Larian fanboy to write a positive review.

Haven't received a PM yet so far.

 

[vivec]

in an rpg: rng >>>>>>>>>>>>> determinism

however it has to be said that the way crpgs implement rng is usually tarded; there's a reason why you have fate points in most pnp systems - although a lot of this also stems from the st00p3d ways in which crpgs are structured

I would agree in general except I don't think deterministic is worse than RNG. They serve different playstyles. Deterministic mechanics are good for complex games where a small number of moves can give rise to a *very* large number of consequence i.e. good branching and spreading a la Chess.