Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Divinity: Original Sin 2

[Hobo Elf]

Overall, the combat is so fun that it makes the game good. Picking up a two-hander, hitting the whirlwind button, and getting juicy crits feels great.

That people played it more or less on autopilot, ignoring the fact that it’s mechanically about as shallow as a puddle, because the pretty graphixxx, undead lizardmen player characters and battle teleportation managed to effectively distract them.

Darth Roxor was right again.

 

[Eyestabber]

Congrats ratface. I thought you would cuck out after Larian became a codex darling and the game went GOTY. Reading the review now.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Grauken]

Great review, hate it people think this is what a good TB-based CRPG looks like

RNG >> Deterministic system

 

[Zer0wing]

Only 7 pages long? Welp, that escalated into general consensus quickly.
It's still a fun ride in coop regardless.

 

[Sacred82]

Which reminds me: reviews on bad RPGs should be posted sooner, to prevent the disappointment of those who may buy them.

we saw how well that goes with PoE mirite

 

[Infinitron]

"Should be posted sooner" you say as if we've got reviews just waiting around ready to be posted. Somebody has to write them, dude.

Let's hope he we can keep up this new momentum.

 

[Eyestabber]

What is interesting is that according to this review this is a bad game, yet it won the GOTY poll with a landslide. What does this tell of the Codex?

It tells me this place is full of retards who don't really play games past the first 30 min.

So, I need to drop my own pet peeve here: itemization. I know this has been glossed over in the review but I wanna go more in-depth for the benefit of anyone still on the fence about this game.

Saying "everything is up for replacement" doesn't give readers the full picture of the hellish nature of DOS2 itemization. Every character has the following slots (quoting from memory, sorry if incorrect):

- Helmet
- Chest armor
- Bracers/Gloves
- Greaves
- Boots
- Two rings
- Amulet
- Main hand weapon
- Off hand weapon/shield/nothing-when-2H

Which adds up to 9 slots in a game with a 4-man party. That adds up to 36 items, give or take. Considering that later on the stat bloat goes over 50%, that means a single unverleveled item is enough to compromise your effectiveness in combat. So playing D:OS2 on anything but the lower/game journo difficulties means that every time you level up you need to go over 36 items and replace them with level-adequate ones. Now add into the equation the Diablo-like tier system, the random vendor inventory system AND the fact that loot is RNG-based so 90% of your stuff is bought instead of found and the conclusion is...

EVERY TIME YOU LEVEL UP YOU HAVE TO GO ON A PILGRIMAGE TO CHECK VENDORS FOR 36 ITEMS TO REPLACE YOUR PREVIOUS SET. EVERY SINGLE TIME. THIS IS THE FIRST RPG THAT ACTUALLY MANAGED TO MAKE ME GO "OH SHIT, I LEVELED UP AGAIN. FUN IS OVER"

The itemization in this game comes straight from the pits of Hell. Upgrading your gear is an unrewarding CHORE. Now compare that to a game with GOOD itemization like Baldur's Gate 2. Items are mostly taken off the enemy cold dead hands. Defeat badass dragon, get best paladin sword that lasts the entire game. Feel rewarded. In DOS2 it's more like "buy generic level scaled sword, stab some dudes, lvl up and ditch the sword, rinse and repeat".

I wouldn't at all be surprised if this sort of garbage itemization is backed by (((studies))) on how to get people hooked up on a cheap reward system. Shame they fail to account for the fact that excessive stimuli makes you stop caring at some point.

 

[Tigranes]

What is interesting is that according to this review this is a bad game, yet it won the GOTY poll with a landslide. What does this tell of the Codex?

It tells me this place is full of retards who don't really play games past the first 30 min.

Some games are good at giving out honeymoons, others are not very good but still a fun romp worth playing once. I would put DOS2 in the latter, and mostly enjoyed my playthrough, even though I agree with roxor that it is a dumbed down DOS1. The real disappointment is that the game seems now to set Larian's path towards shiny gimmicks lighting up a mediocre RPG with boring writing and puddle-deep mechanics.

As for people who play Fallout 4 and Dragon Age 2 for more than 15 seconds, I don't know, you'd think some games are so retarded that you can tell before you ever run the exe.

And yeah, the itemisation is straight out of candy crush, and probably works well for a lot of consumers.

 

[Ninjerk]

i have become what i hate the most

Come to think of it... so have I

When did you become a God-fearing capitalist?

 

[Projas]

Which adds up to 9 slots in a game with a 4-man party.

Itemization was the number one reason I decided it would be wiser to play the game with two lone wolves. Only half as much shit to replace. It was still terrible, can't imagine doing it for two more characters.

 

[hivemind]

thank you for allowing me to skip this game based roxor

 

[Gecos]

Hat off to Darth for ripping Larian a new one. I've had pretty much the same issues with it few days after post-launch and couldn't move past the starting island. Never touched the game since. It may be a commercial success but it's a bad game. And I like Larian and I hope they stay in business and keep releasing. But I can't play such a game. And I can only (yet again) lament on the thought that so many gamers are not only fine with it but actually make it a GOTY. Now back to playing ELEX...

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Good review. As someone who found D:OS1 tedious to the point of unplayability, I don't think the sequel is for me. But at least the collector's box is nice to look at.

Larian - get your shit together. Divinity 2 is one of my favourite games.

 

[AwesomeButton]

"Should be posted sooner" you say as if we've got reviews just waiting around ready to be posted. Somebody has to write them, dude.

Let's hope he we can keep up this new momentum.

Oh, I was't being serious, come on.

<Feverishly scribbling Deadfire's review draft>

 

[Diggfinger]

Codex votes (said) title GAEM OF THE YEAR 2017!

Fast forward a few months, and da Codex publishes a review of that very same game...saying it sucks donkey balls:D

It's this kind of irony that keeps me coming back to this distinguished site


#OnlyOnTheCodex

 

[Shilandra]

What is interesting is that according to this review this is a bad game, yet it won the GOTY poll with a landslide. What does this tell of the Codex?

It tells me this place is full of retards who don't really play games past the first 30 min.

So, I need to drop my own pet peeve here: itemization. I know this has been glossed over in the review but I wanna go more in-depth for the benefit of anyone still on the fence about this game.

Saying "everything is up for replacement" doesn't give readers the full picture of the hellish nature of DOS2 itemization. Every character has the following slots (quoting from memory, sorry if incorrect):

- Helmet
- Chest armor
- Bracers/Gloves
- Greaves
- Boots
- Two rings
- Amulet
- Main hand weapon
- Off hand weapon/shield/nothing-when-2H

Which adds up to 9 slots in a game with a 4-man party. That adds up to 36 items, give or take. Considering that later on the stat bloat goes over 50%, that means a single unverleveled item is enough to compromise your effectiveness in combat. So playing D:OS2 on anything but the lower/game journo difficulties means that every time you level up you need to go over 36 items and replace them with level-adequate ones. Now add into the equation the Diablo-like tier system, the random vendor inventory system AND the fact that loot is RNG-based so 90% of your stuff is bought instead of found and the conclusion is...

EVERY TIME YOU LEVEL UP YOU HAVE TO GO ON A PILGRIMAGE TO CHECK VENDORS FOR 36 ITEMS TO REPLACE YOUR PREVIOUS SET. EVERY SINGLE TIME. THIS IS THE FIRST RPG THAT ACTUALLY MANAGED TO MAKE ME GO "OH SHIT, I LEVELED UP AGAIN. FUN IS OVER"

The itemization in this game comes straight from the pits of Hell. Upgrading your gear is an unrewarding CHORE. Now compare that to a game with GOOD itemization like Baldur's Gate 2. Items are mostly taken off the enemy cold dead hands. Defeat badass dragon, get best paladin sword that lasts the entire game. Feel rewarded. In DOS2 is more like "buy generic level scaled sword, stab some dudes, lvl up and ditch the sword, rinse and repeat".

I wouldn't at all be surprised if this sort of garbage itemization is backed by (((studies))) on how to get people hooked up on a cheap reward system. Shame they fail to account for the fact that excessive stimuli makes you stop caring at some point.

And this, more than anything has convinced me to put off the game.

Maybe they'll fix that 3 versions from now. On well. There's always something else to play in the meantime.

 

[Ismaul]

I came here to say that these self-conditioning sessions about how tactical choices matter and are required by how the combat system is designed, remind me of the same arguments raging over how tactical choices matter in PoE.

My point isn't that these point allocation issues are "tactical" choices that matter; they're actually terrible choices that aren't even explained clearly by the game. My point is just that the ignorance of how the system actually works means that Roxor's credibility as a harsh reviewer of DOS2 is really limited. If you want to bash something in a critique, you must first give it its due. Otherwise you're just on a rage-driven rant.

 

[Eyestabber]

Maybe they'll fix that 3 versions from now.

No, they won't. You're just engaging in self-deceit. D:OS2 was succe$$ful and that means they won't rollback the . We have seen this happen many times before and the result is always the same: commercially successful is here to stay. Larian is joining the "big boys club" now, along Bethesda and Bioware. I won't bother with their next RPG because it's just going to be even more crap.

"You know what the problem with Skyrim was? It just sold way too many copies!" - Said no developer ever

 

[AwesomeButton]

Agreed, but isn't it equally telling in and of itself, when knowing a game's mechanics doesn't make any difference to how well you preform in the game?

 

[Lambinou]

As someone who still enjoyed the game, but hasn't finished it yet -i tend to play a lot, then get burned out), I must say Roxxor's point about gameplay are pretty spot on.

There are things that i can't make sense of if their goal was to make a deterministic system... why give your attack 95% chances to hit instead of 100 % ? why even have dodge at all ?

Also this equipment and loot systems feels like it would work and be OK in a game like ego draconis, with only 1 character, for a 4 player party based game, it's just too tedious.


I remember some codexers and even maybe Sven mentionning they had to redo or repurpose fort Joy, that it was different in earlier stages... Anyone has some details on that ? Because I kind of feel like I've missed some development drama that could explain some of the problems and oddities (not all, mind you).

To add to this and Roxxor's point about writing and the evasion of fort Joy,

Spoiler

You can save a dragon knight, but somehow the idea of him flying you out of the island never even get lampshaded, and his payback is pretty disappointing

Only thing I'm not so sure about is his point about romance and animals.
Now i could be misremembering this, but Red Prince is the only one so far to have talked about sex (i'm not yet at the romance sex moment), and he came off to me as a decadent guy that just overindulge in it after a somewhat secluded life in a golden prison.
I don't remember Ifan or Lohse doing anything similar so far. Speaking of Which, Ifan seemed to have more conversation options for answer compared to the other, which i apprecited, different writer maybe ?


As for animal cruelty

Spoiler

the source hounds comes to mind and does fit, but what else do you count in ? the orphan bear in fort Joy ? (i wouldn't), The corrupted deer ? the wolf abomination near the altar ? the shark ? the hens ? the exploding rats in the witch cellar ? the ones you sacrifice for a source point with Hannag ?
I don't really count the burning pig because they're cursed humans

Another detail, about Braccus rex, it isn't surprising, Larian tends to retcons various points in their game, i could document quite a few changes from game to game.

 

[Ismaul]

Agreed, but isn't it equally telling in and of itself, when knowing a game's mechanics doesn't make any difference to how well you preform in the game?

Euhh, what? They do make a huge difference. If you don't build your character following the obfuscated damage formula, you're going to have a hard time (in Tactician) and end up complaining about Armor and HP bloat. This last complaint wouldn't be as big if the system was better at communicating how you improve your damage, or if the formula wasn't so obnoxious.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Agreed, but isn't it equally telling in and of itself, when knowing a game's mechanics doesn't make any difference to how well you preform in the game?

Euhh, what? They do make a huge difference. If you don't build your character following the obfuscated damage formula, you're going to have a hard time (in Tactician) and end up complaining about Armor and HP bloat. This last complaint wouldn't be as big if the system was better at communicating how you improve your damage, or if the formula wasn't so obnoxious.

I wouldn't know about Tactician. I started on Classic, and after seeing what the combat system is like, never thought about going up from that.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I recall going from fun to bored to utterly loathing the game by the final act. Just a miserable slog I finished out of stubbornness.

Jeez, when was the last RPG anyone played where they didn't have to force themselves to finish it? Seems like every game nowadays is just bloat.

 

[Pizzashoes]

Overall, the combat is so fun that it makes the game good. Picking up a two-hander, hitting the whirlwind button, and getting juicy crits feels great.

That people played it more or less on autopilot, ignoring the fact that it’s mechanically about as shallow as a puddle, because the pretty graphixxx, undead lizardmen player characters and battle teleportation managed to effectively distract them.

Darth Roxor was right again.

Yeah, he was able to accurately observe behavior. That's not difficult. But generally speaking, pretty graphics, undead lizardmen, and battle teleportation can be a huge part of what makes a game fun.