Review RPG Codex Review: Expeditions: Conquistador

[Avonaeon]

The camera moves out to a certain radius from the player regardless of the aspect ratio of the screen, if that's what you mean. I guess that's one of the things we can take into account when we tweak the camera (So that you can move further at lower aspect ratios). No need to be a dick about it though.

 

[IDtenT]

Why not just let you zoom out all the way but introduce fog of war?

 

[SCO]

Enemies magically appear from behind bushes

 

[Avonaeon]

Why not just let you zoom out all the way but introduce fog of war?

Because it would require way too many changes at this point. We'd have to model LOD versions of all the assets we use in the exploration map to make even remotely playable, and even then, with the way Unity handles terrain it would look either shit, or perform horribly. Not to mention that it would make the edges of the map painfully obvious.

 

[Tigranes]

Apparently there were technical and/or design concerns.

I can expect that even with FOW seeing the lay of the land, i.e. where dead ends are, changes the gameplay and lessens the exploring realism deal. I can understand that, though I don't know if that was worth the up-the-horse's-arse camera.

A Hard Racist + Ironman Insane Native-Hugger playthrough and I think that's it for this game. Combat / character development means no replayability value beyond that point. But 40 hours for a 70k Kickstarter game from a small debut team is more than worthwhile and Logic Artists have a bright future (hopefully, with the sales). Very much excited to hear about their next project in due time.

 

[Tolknaz]

So, Unity has trouble with decent fog of war? Interesting. I predict lots of butts will be hurting once higher profile kickstarters start coming out.

 

[Avonaeon]

I meant that if we allowed the camera to be zoomed all the way out, we'd run into a slew of performance issues. I wasn't talking about Fog of War really.

 

[villain of the story]

The camera moves out to a certain radius from the player regardless of the aspect ratio of the screen, if that's what you mean. I guess that's one of the things we can take into account when we tweak the camera (So that you can move further at lower aspect ratios). No need to be a dick about it though.

If you are going to readjust the pan distance based on aspect ration, you might as well readjust zoom distance also baed on aspect ratio.

The reason I'm being a dick is that the game is being a dick to me, by forcing me to rotate the camera all the time, just to see where I'm going or to see if I'm missing anything at the far edges of the screen, which rapidly changes because I'm forced to rotate the camera all the time.

The game has a fundamental design issue there. I can sympathise with technical problems but not lack of design foresight. These are the kinds of problems I haven't encountered once in games with a similar travel map / game world view with navigation. Because they weren't dicks to the player by trying to restrict world view and instead gave freedom to let the player have a clear grasp and perception of where he is. And even if not for the pan & rotation problem, trees blocking LOS without any substitution mechanic to prevent that or lack of clear information on terrain or outlines is a big oversight. Adds nothing to the "exploration experience" while detracting from functionality.

Oh, and I'm being a dick because this is the Codex. You face the criticism. No free rides.

So, Unity has trouble with decent fog of war? Interesting. I predict lots of butts will be hurting once higher profile kickstarters start coming out.

No, it doesn't. There are elegant solutions out there.

Why not just let you zoom out all the way but introduce fog of war?

Because it would require way too many changes at this point. We'd have to model LOD versions of all the assets we use in the exploration map to make even remotely playable, and even then, with the way Unity handles terrain it would look either shit, or perform horribly. Not to mention that it would make the edges of the map painfully obvious.

True that the default terrain in Unity can be very problematic and restricting. That's why people have been making their own terrain implementations though if you didn't want to bother with that, that's understandable.

What about instancing? I've seen some crazy shit done in Unity. Thousands of dynamic models occupying the same scene with very servicable performance.

 

[Metro]

Another five or so pages and people will be calling it 'Shit, Banal, Boring.'

 

[Tigranes]

Of course. The Codex honeymoon-periods like an abused housewife (myself included).

I don't know. I can appreciate the conundrum, even if I don't like the end result. Having a wide zoom available, even with fog of war, does do a lot to significantly reduce the feeling of trekking an unknown land, running into dead ends or into roaming encounters. Transparent foliage options could help without having that problem, but I didn't think foliage was the big issue, unless I'm mistaken? After all, all the goodies have gigantic beams of light so it's impossible to miss.

 

[Gondolin]

For a first effort I find E:Q pretty damn impressive. Yes, the camera is annoying, but I can live with it for now.

 

[villain of the story]

Another five or so pages and people will be calling it 'Shit, Banal, Boring.'

No, the game is good. Hispaniola campaign in particular, though short, had a tight focus. Mexican campaign is like more of the same without the same tight focus

I may call the developers shitheads for strawman arguments and half-assed answers with illogical reasoning but not the game itself.

Of course. The Codex honeymoon-periods like an abused housewife (myself included).

I don't know. I can appreciate the conundrum, even if I don't like the end result. Having a wide zoom available, even with fog of war, does do a lot to significantly reduce the feeling of trekking an unknown land, running into dead ends or into roaming encounters. Transparent foliage options could help without having that problem, but I didn't think foliage was the big issue, unless I'm mistaken? After all, all the goodies have gigantic beams of light so it's impossible to miss.

Running into dead ends or roaming encounters have never felt more alerting than when it happens in games with FOW. Civ series. HOMM series. And the "feeling of trekking an unknown land" is many times more in such games because you actually have to go there to discover the land. In Conquistador, you may or may not see shit coming and the only deciding factor is whether the camera was correctly positioned in that moment. That is absolute bullshit. If it's" exploring the unexplored and unpredictable encounters" factor that is so desired, than Conquistador ain't got shit on games like HOMM or Civ series, which achieved it far more simply and sensibly.

 

[Tigranes]

I hardly think camera positioning makes such a big difference that you have to constantly swivel to get that two or three steps advantage. I use a widescreen monitor. If you really are relying on that then you're just anally retentive.

I agree with you that FOW would have been the best conventional option and it is one of the flaws, but I hardly think the current state of it is that you have to swivel like a madman or be heavily disadvantaged by myopia.

(And yes, playing it twice, Hispaniola really is quite a bit better than Mexico, where you have to do a lot more empty running around. Mexico has a lot of fun things though.)

 

[villain of the story]

Oh, I have one severe disappointment with the game: you can't enslave people. Perhaps "slaves" should have been a resource that you could buy and sell. Maybe more slaves = faster travel, bonus to certain combat situations (where the text tells you that your servants do this or that) but also higher chance of a revolt. When they revolt, you would have an actual incentive other than your crew to consider what to do with the survivors as well.

 

[Jack Dandy]

The post-patch camera is really better. Good job on that one.

 

[Dickie]

The post-patch camera is really better. Good job on that one.

Oh? What'd they do? Invisible foliage?

 

[Jack Dandy]

(That foliage stuff wasn't THAT annoying)
What it did was make the camera pan faster, and now it also has a bigger range of movement. So it's pretty easy to recon your surroundings now.

 

[tindrli]

i wasnt following last couple of page and i wonder, did they manage to patch gog version or its download whole thing again?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Oh, I have one severe disappointment with the game: you can't enslave people.

You have to unlock Necromancy first.

 

[Avonaeon]

i wasnt following last couple of page and i wonder, did they manage to patch gog version or its download whole thing again?

Patch.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Why not just let you zoom out all the way but introduce fog of war?

Because it would require way too many changes at this point. We'd have to model LOD versions of all the assets we use in the exploration map to make even remotely playable, and even then, with the way Unity handles terrain it would look either shit, or perform horribly. Not to mention that it would make the edges of the map painfully obvious.

Then why use Unity and not use an engine that can do it?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why not just let you zoom out all the way but introduce fog of war?

Because it would require way too many changes at this point. We'd have to model LOD versions of all the assets we use in the exploration map to make even remotely playable, and even then, with the way Unity handles terrain it would look either shit, or perform horribly. Not to mention that it would make the edges of the map painfully obvious.

How would you rate Unity, btw? What are the pros and cons?

 

[Avonaeon]

Because Unity is affordable, well documented, user-friendly, very flexible, has an active community, can build to Linux and Mac, etc. I could go on, but the point is, choosing an engine based on a single feature would be retarded.

 

[Avonaeon]

Why not just let you zoom out all the way but introduce fog of war?

Because it would require way too many changes at this point. We'd have to model LOD versions of all the assets we use in the exploration map to make even remotely playable, and even then, with the way Unity handles terrain it would look either shit, or perform horribly. Not to mention that it would make the edges of the map painfully obvious.

How would you rate Unity, btw? What are the pros and cons?

It's not without it's flaws. The terrain features are pretty attrocious and it doesn't handle transparent shaders very well. There are a slew of minor things that suck, but all in all, it's a very good engine to work in.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I know that it's easy to use. But so far every game I've seen on Unity looks the same. They all produce blurry graphics and have performance problems.

I think besides ease of use it's a very poor choice.