Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun

[epeli]

Hmm... Maybe I should write Underrail review.

Spoiler

toro epeli FeelTheRads thoughts?

Go for it! No, seriously, you're probably the best person to review Codex GOTY since Roxor doesn't care about the butthurt potential. I'm afraid the administration won't let you include any "BUY AOD !!!1" banner ads in it, but remember to mention AoD at least once per paragraph so we know it's not ghostwritten.

But on to slightly more serious matters outside codex and https://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/goral-one-broken-man

Finding out about your spergy crusade against Underrail was the best laugh I had all week, thanks for that. I sincerely hope you understand that you are doing no good for your beloved game either... but I digress. Respond to the thread and own up to your actions like a decent human being. Don't sweat it, we have no intentions of banning you from the Steam community hub. (Valve might, but that is outside our control.) Just don't annoy other users too much with your advertising and shitposting. Cheers.

 

[Tacgnol]

Double drama? 2017 is looking good already.

 

[Fairfax]

I don't believe it was just grammar. He did the same thing with the Hard West review, which was posted more than a year ago.

 

[catfood]

Ban Infinitron.

 

[Ludo Lense]

I didn't want to reply to this so the drama would end quickly but I realize I made a mistake given some people's reaction and e-mails the next day.

Allow me to add the following:

I am not leaving the RPG Codex, I have not asked to be ejected or anything of the sort. I will still be on the forums as per usual.

 

[Goral]

I didn't want to reply to this so the drama would end quickly but I realize I made a mistake given some people's reaction and e-mails the next day.

You didn't deny it was because of CB and Tron. So it's confirmed.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

I didn't want to reply to this so the drama would end quickly but I realize I made a mistake given some people's reaction and e-mails the next day.

Allow me to add the following:

I am not leaving the RPG Codex, I have not asked to be ejected or anything of the sort. I will still be on the forums as per usual.

So what are your objections to the final form of the review? It seemed pretty good to me? Is it just the choice of words that's the problem or do you feel that the tone of the review and your opinion of the game has been Infinitron'd changed?

 

[Lostpleb]

Getting some good Commandos: Beyond the Call of Duty vibes from this game, and it was nice to read about the differences between the Japanese and English dubs. If the material does not actually come from Japan, then I'd rather go for the cringier option and get a few lols out of it.

 

[agris]

298 removals
315 additions

I didn't read the changes, but that's quite a lot. If he didn't agree to it, his reaction is understandable.
Also, is this what we've come to? People leaving the forum and disowning their own content because of the staff's interference?

That looks like regular copy editing.

/ did not deliver drama.

 

[Zombra]

By the way, Ludo never said he wanted his name taken off because they edited his grammar. I'm inclined to think this has nothing to do with the edits at all. There is a deeper drama here, I just know it.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I wish to renounce authorship of the review regarding Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun. Matters concerning said text lie solely with the site staff. From my side I do not wish to be associated or related to it in any way from this point onward.

"I remember being both angry and overjoyed when a chicken started running around." - RPG Codex Editorial Staff

 

[Infinitron]

By the way, Ludo never said he wanted his name taken off because they edited his grammar. I'm inclined to think this has nothing to do with the edits at all. There is a deeper drama here, I just know it.

It's about the edits, and I suppose, the way we handle edits. For both this review and the Hard West review a year ago.

Tough cookies, the way the Codex works isn't for everybody. Like DU says, we're not professionals here.

 

[Kz3r0]

Roxor's PoE wouldn't have been published as it was.

 

[Tigranes]

The edits look like typical copy-editing, and having hundreds of changes is routine (add a period? One change!). It is also common courtesy for any edits to be returned to author for approval.

Who knows what Ludo Lense is actually pissed about, and who knows what Infinitron even means by "the way the Codex works".

 

[Zdzisiu]

The edits look like typical copy-editing, and having hundreds of changes is routine (add a period? One change!). It is also common courtesy for any edits to be returned to author for approval.

Who knows what Ludo Lense is actually pissed about, and who knows what Infinitron even means by "the way the Codex works".

It might be the blood and semen sample they require all of the published authors to deliver.

 

[Tigranes]

'Delivered'

 

[Goral]

It might be the blood and semen sample they require all of the published authors to deliver.

Are you implying that all Codex authors are men? What about Roguey? Or Crooked Bee? Don't answer it, I want to believe.

 

[Roguey]

The edits look like typical copy-editing, and having hundreds of changes is routine (add a period? One change!). It is also common courtesy for any edits to be returned to author for approval.

Who knows what Ludo Lense is actually pissed about, and who knows what Infinitron even means by "the way the Codex works".

The way the Codex works is "We have no desire to waste time with pedantic arguments over copy-editing, once you submit it, it's ours."

 

[Fairfax]

The edits look like typical copy-editing, and having hundreds of changes is routine (add a period? One change!). It is also common courtesy for any edits to be returned to author for approval.

Who knows what Ludo Lense is actually pissed about, and who knows what Infinitron even means by "the way the Codex works".

The way the Codex works is "We have no desire to waste time with pedantic arguments over copy-editing, once you submit it, it's ours."

Sure, but if no agreement is reached, the author should be able to call it off before it's posted.

 

[Roguey]

Sure, but if no agreement is reached, the author should be able to call it off before it's posted.

The Codex does not scale to the level of prima donnas. So far only one person has had their ego bruised over this process.

 

[Fairfax]

The Codex does not scale to the level of prima donnas.

DarkUnderlord, please eject me. I'm done with this site.

I put in that sentence because after due consideration I thought it would be unfair to VD to not acknowledge that he had, in fact, attempted massively branching narrative, in a similar world no less. If you Bubbles think that's a controversial statement, or something that requires deeper knowledge than having followed the development of AoD here and the many threads about it, then go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

Edit: Also Bubbles you pencildick, why didn't you ask me directly about it in the thread you were participating on? Do you have to hide behind Infinitron or the rest of the Codex staff for that?

Lambchop19 To make it perfectly clear, no, I don't consider myself a Codexian.

There are a number of people here I respect, and some of the conversations are really good, but the vast majority of you and what goes on here... no, I don't want to identify with that.

PrimeJunta: oh just fuck the whole codex

 

[Roguey]

Not banning him trolls him harder than banning him.

The idea I'm trying to get across is, if an editor is going to spend several hours of their time copyediting someone's work, no they're not going to let all that effort go to nothing because the writer throws a fit over how their grammar was corrected. The hilarious thing here is that Ludo Lense knew what the score was after his Hard West review and got mad about it again anyway.

 

[Infinitron]

Since this is a volunteer-based website, it's inevitable that contributors will have disparate levels of English writing skill. It's not something that's easy to discuss without offending people, but by subjecting some reviews to a mandatory editing pass we've been able to narrow the gap between them. That's worked well so far - so long as the contributors came at it from the mindset of wanting to pass on their knowledge about a game, and not as some sort of creative prose writing assignment where they're being graded for style.

 

[Prime Junta]

Let's talk about editorial process. 'Cuz there is a pretty well-established convention about what it is, and isn't. It goes like this:

1. Editor and writer agree about what the writer is going to write. This can be as simple as "subject, length, deadline" or something a lot more complex, including an abstract, research plan, outline, or whatever else is deemed necessary. Sometimes the editor asks the writer, sometimes the writer pitches the idea to the editor. If any compensation is involved, that's negotiated at this point as well.
2. Writer writes and submits the story.
3. Editor will either accept it for publication, request revisions, or reject it.
   1. If it's accepted for publication, it goes into copy-editing.
   2. The request for revisions can be quite general ("the second half of the article doesn't make sense, cut it or rewrite it") or very specific (specific cuts, comments, or reformulations directly in the text). At this point, the writer can withdraw the article, or the editor and writer can proceed to revise it until both are satisfied they can go forward with publication. If the writer withdraws the story, the process ends.
   3. If the editor rejects the story, the process ends.
4. The editor copy-edits the article. At this point, no substantive changes are made, but headlines, subheads, blurbs, and captions can be added, typos and grammar errors are corrected, and stylistic edits are made. Many publications have a style guide, and the copyeditors are the ones who enforce it. Sometimes as a courtesy the editors ask the writer to sign off on the final version; in most publications with deadlines this isn't done however simply because there's usually no time for it.
5. The editor publishes the article.

There are some very strong assumptions about how the process proceeds. Specifically:

1. Prior to step 5 (publication), the process is confidential: it's between the editor(s) and the writer(s). Works in progress are not shown to other parties without everybody's consent. If a story is rejected or withdrawn, nobody will know unless both parties agree about it.
2. The editor(s) only publish the story if they're willing to stand behind it. This is in fact codified into law in most countries: the editor in chief of a publication is legally responsible for whatever is published on it. You simply can't publish something and then say "oh it's just the writer's opinion, we the editors think it's shit."
3. The content of the story is nailed down and agreed upon during the revisions phase. After that point, the editor may not make substantive changes, and the writer may not withdraw the article.

So: if the Codex has made substantive changes to Ludo's article after accepting it for publication, then that's a gross violation of editorial process and Ludo has every right to be butthurt about it. However, if the Codex's changes amount to copyediting -- even if extensive, as can happen if the writer isn't writing in their native language -- then he's being a dumbfuck about it.

Finally: in my painful experience, this is roughly the process that even the Codex attempts to follow. There have been violations, but these haven't been consequence-free for the violators.

Spoiler

Source: personal experience. I've co-authored a book, been a regular contributor for a couple of magazines, and been co-editor-in-chief for a fairly ambitious volunteer-run periodical, plus done a bunch of other writing for publication – both for money and out of love for the art – here and there as well. Never been my main line of work, but still.

Edit: I diffed the versions and IMO the Codex edits are straight-up copyediting, not substantive (and the article reads a good deal better after them). If there's something specific Ludo is butthurt about, I'd be curious to hear what it is.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

The edits look like typical copy-editing, and having hundreds of changes is routine (add a period? One change!). It is also common courtesy for any edits to be returned to author for approval.

Who knows what Ludo Lense is actually pissed about, and who knows what Infinitron even means by "the way the Codex works".

The way the Codex works is "We have no desire to waste time with pedantic arguments over copy-editing, once you submit it, it's ours."

Sure, but if no agreement is reached, the author should be able to call it off before it's posted.

It's not clear tho that Lense wanted to call it off. If he did this with earlier reviews he might just want to "Alan Smithee" it, being willing to contribute content to the codex but not wanting to be associated with it for whatever reason.