RPG Codex Top 50 cRPGs - Retards who cannot read and Discussion thread

[Turjan]

If Prelude to Darkness does not make final list RPGCodex loses 10 prestige points, be aware

With whom? And on which scale?

 

[Metro]

If anyone wants a good laugh: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503191

 

[Jaesun]

 

[laclongquan]

Because PnPfags are desperately, desperately, trying to promote the dying genre that is Pen and Paper. I mean, if you ask me, what is PnP my answer will be "Some obscure form of game that some fags around here trying to interest me into playing that I feel boring as shit."

Generally we judge games on its own merits, not whether or not it fall in line with some obscure shit like PnP, or DnD, or Star Wars, or Witcher.

Dungeon crawlers are not decline when CRPGs are concerned. They are the best computers have (yet) to offer. Until we see a proper AI, computers can't simulate a DM, and without a DM, the only relevant aspect of RPGs kept intact by CRPGs are combat and exploration.

I've never understood why cRPGs should try to only simulate PnP games instead of simulating, I don't know, an actual adventure or something. Using already existing PnP mechanics and settings is all fine and good, but surely the ultimate goal shouldn't be to create a game that simulates another type of game that already simulates something else.

 

[Turjan]

Because PnPfags are desperately, desperately, trying to promote the dying genre that is Pen and Paper.

Edgy. It seems to be that the death of PnP will last a few more decades. At least the games I'm in are alive and kicking, and there's no shortage of new players, either.

 

[laclongquan]

I wouldnt know about that. I mean, the single most important thing about PnP is that those PnP fags spouting "PnP this, PnP that" and "DM" everywhere. They did say something else but I cant be arsed to remember or google it. Whether it will live a few more decades, I would neither know nor care about it. YOU tell me.

 

[sser]

Ok, now you are just intentionally missing my point. If I put my dick in you, it doesn't mean that you become me. You're still you, with a bit of Haba dribbling from your hole.

So what's the difference between Baldur's Gate and JA2?

If you start removing similar RPG features from both BG and JA, in the end you'll have a role playing game and a tactical strategy game - because that is what those games were designed to be. RPG-like features do not make a war game RPG, they will remain as superficial flavour additions.

If you remove RPG elements from Baldur's Gate you have what the Infinity engine was in its original state -- an RTS.

Just because JA2 had a strategic overlay doesn't mean its RPG elements were frivolous. They're incredibly strong. Easily stronger than the Icewind Dale series, for example, which few would dispute are RPGs.

 

[Turjan]

I mean, the single most important thing about PnP is that those PnP fags spouting "PnP this, PnP that" and "DM" everywhere.

Does this even make any sense to you?

Anyway. PnP rules have the advantage that they are usually proven, at least some of them. It doesn't make too much sense to transfer them 1:1 to games, as a computer is obviously better at math and can deal with much finer granularity, but of course you can do it if you want. On the other hand, a computer is less flexible, so it won't be able to emulate the freedom of any PnP adventure any time soon. I guess that's the main reason why the cRPG genre shifts in the direction of action adventures with nice graphics as a draw.

 

[Esterhaze]

Ok, now you are just intentionally missing my point. If I put my dick in you, it doesn't mean that you become me. You're still you, with a bit of Haba dribbling from your hole.

So what's the difference between Baldur's Gate and JA2?

If you start removing similar RPG features from both BG and JA, in the end you'll have a role playing game and a tactical strategy game - because that is what those games were designed to be. RPG-like features do not make a war game RPG, they will remain as superficial flavour additions.

If you remove RPG elements from Baldur's Gate you have what the Infinity engine was in its original state -- an RTS.

Just because JA2 had a strategic overlay doesn't mean its RPG elements were frivolous. They're incredibly strong. Easily stronger than the Icewind Dale series, for example, which few would dispute are RPGs.

Indeed, if more rpgs used a strategic base we would have better rpgs in general, at least in the metrics the codex generally values (choice and consequence, non linearity, reactivity to choices, importance of charater skill)

 

[octavius]

No votes from mondblut and Blackadder?

 

[mondblut]

No votes from mondblut and Blackadder?

The very thread title screamed to me of so many fun stuff I could be doing instead of trying to recall twoscore and fucking half of RPGs I did not particularly loathe, so I ignored it completely. And half that number isn't much better.

Fine, I went in and made something up.

 

[Haba]

If anyone wants a good laugh: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503191

Holy fucking shit!

Humanity is doomed.

 

[felipepepe]

If you look at the 2012, you can have a nice preview of what's to come: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455870

Pretty interesting to compare with our own lists... they had 197 voters, but the top game, Chrono Trigger, had only 75 votes... meanwhile, here Fallout is at #1 almost by consensus. Also, while gamkes like Wizardry 8, JA2, Gothic 2 and TOEE are on top of our list, they all got less than 4 votes at NeoGAF....

 

[Jaesun]

neogaf? moar like jRPGaf.

 

[felipepepe]

neogaf? moar like jRPGaf.

Certainly, but it's most interesting how it differs from both your cRPG list and my jRPG list, especially how the consensus is almost non-existant; just 40% of the voters agreed with #1, Chrono Trigger. My is around 70% on FFT and yours 90% on Fallout.

One could imagine that's because they have only borderline interest in the topic and never went after the classics to play them, just swallow up the new shit being released and that's it.

 

[Jaesun]

So neogaf is basically shitslurping consoletards? *gasp* who would have known? :D

 

[laclongquan]

My vote here.


Legend of Mana: greatest system of item crafting. Fuck Yeah~. Cutesy anime style could be a detriment to edgy Codexers, but it's one o f few games you can play with your GF/wife/children/younger relatives/targets.

Chrono Cross is better than Trigger. Better music, wider world, much bigger selection of characters to choose. More interesting battle system. I think its story is better than Trigger, but then I am the minority in doing so. I never complete Chrono Trigger as I could never understand why when I can play Cross. It's not bad precisely, or boring, it's just overshadowed by Cross.

Parasite Eve 2 as opposed to PE1 which is one boring blocky rpg games. You can skip 1 with no regret. PE2 is... repeatable. Gun/ammo/spell management. Nice game with occasional look of Aya Breia.

Front Mission 3 is pretty good, as far as mecha games go. Turnbased, Squadbased, tactical combat games. You can even scavenge the suits from battlefield, Buy, sell, swap around... The Japanese style of characters ruin the game for some storyfags, but really, what kind of gamers turned off by one bad aspect in an otherwise great game?

Valkyrie Profile is interesting. It's pretty hard to describe its combat system. Its story is complicated in its simplicity: A Valkyrie come down to Midgard to harvest heroes' soul as eihenjar to send them to Asgard as soldier in preparation for the Final War of Gods. The missions and quests are mostly concerning with the heroes and heroines and their death. You are facing a choice of sending up your minions in exchange for a few trinkets, or keep them. And if sending up, its better to send certain characters with certain skills than others. Normally there's two endings, but the way you send up hereos can open up another, True, ending. it's a game of choice and consequence with an engaging multitude of character's lifestory. I havent played VP2 but rumours say it's not very good and certainly not as good as 1.

ROTK10 count because you can train your main character the way you like it. A wimpy clerk into the greatest general? Can do. And quests. Muthafuka quests galore. All that beside the command and control battles, of course. It's a crying shame it doesnt have a PC port to fit the classification. Same idea with SW2E but not SW2X, though a bigger stretch there.

FFS. If you list FF8. Then it's in. Top 3 of console RPG. Best one of the entire iconic series.
FF9 is worse than 8, but better than 7.

Harvest Moon is pretty good. Same attraction as LoM above, but it doesnt have battles. Definitely fit for playing with children and your other half.

Recettear An Item Shop Tale. Cutesy anime art style to kill you all, but Recettear is much more than that. It's about larping an item shop owner, you know, the npc class that infest gameworlds that oh so mundane but so very necessary for your heroes. You are larping a cute shopkeeper and always have to make decision: keep this item to sell for money to pay for your humongous debt, or equip it for dungeon delving. You choose one in a selected group of heroes frequented your shops to help you in your trek gathering items. Anyway, if you can not even get beyond the cutesy look, Reccettear is not a game for you.

Add Chrono Trigger to the list because.

ROTK6. Old game, pretty interesting in its time.

Dynasty Warriors 5 Empire. I like to create a heroine and try to get her advance in the chaotic era of 3 Kingdoms.

 

[Severian Silk]

You're in the wrong thread.

And, no one cares.

 

[felipepepe]

You're in the wrong thread.

And, no one cares.

I care.

 

[laclongquan]

Jaesun Why dont you do a preliminary counting just to see how the list look like? Edit that result into your 1st post with spoiler, too.

 

[Haba]

After 20 years of cRPG's, there is simply no way I could ever put a jRPG on my top 50 list. Sengoku Rance maybe, but it isn't a RPG. I want a compelling story, interesting characters on top of deep, strategic combat. But then again, I'm pretty sure I won't be adding any further games on the list either.

Novelty value doesn't last through that many games, after all.

In that sense there is more hope in those fuckwits who grew up with the "deep and compelling" stories of Final Fantasy - they can at least experience true RPGs for the first time.

 

[Grunker]

Because PnPfags are desperately, desperately, trying to promote the dying genre that is Pen and Paper.

There are more pen & paper players in Europe and the US than there ever has been.

In Denmark alone the number has doubled in something like 5 years.

 

[laclongquan]

You're in the wrong thread.

And, no one cares.

In my defense there's no equivalence of this thread for Top 50 console RPGs non-sanctioned thread.

 

[laclongquan]

Because PnPfags are desperately, desperately, trying to promote the dying genre that is Pen and Paper.

There are more pen & paper players in Europe and the US than there ever has been.

In Denmark alone the number has doubled in something like 5 years.

I saw what you did there. Very nice wording. As an ex-professional wordmeister, I approve of that.

 

[Jasede]

So, when will we be tallying the results?

And I really don't think you'd have lost any credibility if you'd allowed jRPGs and the like. We're not NeoGAF, we wouldn't suddenly end up loving Final Fantasy 7. If anything it'd make the results more credible, showing just how much western RPGs dominate.

Honestly, think about doing that next year. It's RPG Codex, not CRPG Codex.