Information RPG Kickstarter Round-up: Sui Generis and Solenttar

[Baron]

Yes. This is a single comment that immediately made me uncomfortable and weary. The editor looks SO fucking GOOD. Why they would say: we are not sure atm? It looks easy to use for illiterates, at least where the terrain, seasonal/day-night effects comes to play. Plus physical model for interactions (don't know if that is implemented in the editor, or hard coded)... It is the next platinum mine!
.

I don't buy that this guy coded "every line of code", it's too good. And all while they held full time jobs. And the fact that there is only 1.5 of them working on it, the rest are padding the team out to appear more professional and grab more kickstarter loot. I get the impression the tech guy coded every line of code necessary to stich the middleware together (and doing it admirably, mind you). My guess is there will be no toolset because of middleware licensing requirements, and that the £150,000 asked for is for paying for the middleware necessary for the game itself, assuming they're working with trial/demoware.

[edit - Nope, at the 6:08 minute mark he definitely says it has no 3rd party content and that everything, art/audio included, was done himself. Brofist]

Looking at it again, that terrain tool is beautiful. Altering the terrain to look natural just as you raise or lower it, without having to use separate brushes for grass, rocks, etc. It's just not fair that they have this tool and I do not. *smeagol glare*

 

[Johannes]

Providing our tools for creating user content is something we're taking under serious consideration. We will do whatever we can to make this possible but we're not yet comfortable with promising a complete modding solution. Some of the more advanced features currently require significant technical knowledge and providing a broad user friendly experience could prove challenging.

Yeah that's bullshit. Ok, using the editor to its full extent requires significant technical knowledge. Now how is that a problem? Then you either learn to use it if you're serious, or don't bother using those advanced tools.

 

[mikaelis]

Editor thing realy NEEDS to be clarified. Still, terrain/world editor + early combat blows my balls with the cock attached.

 

[Baron]

Because our initial inspiration for this game came to us many years ago (long before it was possible to develop it) the story has already been thoroughly developed. It is the result of many inspired moments by various members of the team and some of us are capable writers. We would however like to hire a writer to help with the bulk of dialogue etc.

We are not doing a typical quest with reward system but being hired to perform tasks will certainly be there. I will give an example of what might transpire in the game.

You are offered a valuable object to complete some task. This could be a lie, it could be a way to lure you into a trap and rob you, for example. If the reward does exist, you might decide to find out where the person offering it lives and look for it in their house rather than completing the task. You may get caught doing this, or you may even be hired by the same person to retrieve the stolen item. And so on and so forth.

The world will feature something similar to a feudal society. There are races besides humans but they are dramatically different from humans, in conventional terms more monsters than races. There are no warring factions as such but there is a major ongoing conflict.

Fighting multiple opponents will not be so uncommon and knockdowns are not quite as frequent or dangerous as you might think in most fights. When fighting something like the large ogre you might want some help, though once you have built up your character's powers you may be able to accomplish a lot alone.

As a side note our character physics are advanced but they are also very performance efficient. There will be plenty of characters

source: http://www.baremettle.com/sg/forums/index.php?threads/questions-about-sui-generis.6/

we all very much agree with hitpoints being a tired mechanic. Originally we went for a stamina based system that entailed such a diminuition of abilities. Gameplay wise this didn't quite work out as we had planned and so we removed it. We are still using a stamina and injury system but to be honest we haven't settled on final mechanics. There will certainly be no instant healing and no hitpoints, tougher opponents will be more resistant to damage of certain types.
All damage is locational, some weapons and attacks will allow accurate targeting, and so will powers. Armour will also cover specific body parts rather than confer some kind of defence, different body parts will naturally have different vulnerabilities.
You will definitely only control a single character but you may have people fighting alongside you. In some fights you may well need the support.

 

[Surf Solar]

What is so "exiting" or "groundbreaking" about Sui Generis ?

All I could see was a boring engine showcase with lifeless dungeons, fighting with retarded 3d cameras yet again and realtime combat. Terrain is sucked out of colour and looks either brown or gray.

 

[Baron]

What is so "exiting" or "groundbreaking" about Sui Generis ?

Diablo with physics. Will be a huge hit. But in regards to Bare Mettle, it must rub the lotion on its skin AND GIVE ME THE FUCKING TOOLSET!!!!

Love your new avatar, btw.

 

[Surf Solar]

What is so "exiting" or "groundbreaking" about Sui Generis ?

Diablo with physics. Will be a huge hit. But it must rub the lotion on its skin AND GIVE ME THE FUCKING TOOLSET!!!!

Those ragdoll physics look silly and what is the net gain of a feauture like "omg wooden crates I hit fly around realistically"? The part in the video where he dual wielded some swords (OMG AWSUM!!11) looked like some sort of bitchfight in motion, the way he swung those swords etc.

Love your new avatar, btw.

Just playing along since someone gave me that title under the username. ;D

 

[mikaelis]

Those ragdoll physics look silly and what is the net gain of a feauture like "omg wooden crates I hit fly around realistically"? The part in the video where he dual wielded some swords (OMG AWSUM!!11) looked like some sort of bitchfight in motion, the way he swung those swords etc.

I don't get it. What is wrong with the combat? If done right, it looks like the best action-combat EVER. No ridiculous HP loss - hitting your opponent in his face with the sword only to see that he "bled a little = -7HP". It looks like the fight should look, I guess. Movement looks great, parrying as well, protagonist wobbling after being hit by the sword or mace (especially the last fight of the video) Brilliant!. Like you would expect from the man being hit by the 20 kg steel ball on a fucking 1.5 meter chain!!!.

 

[mikaelis]

What is so "exiting" or "groundbreaking" about Sui Generis ?

Diablo with physics. Will be a huge hit. But in regards to Bare Mettle, it must rub the lotion on its skin AND GIVE ME THE FUCKING TOOLSET!!!!

Love your new avatar, btw.

Well, they said fights will be rare and challenging in their pitch. That is what sparkled my interest in the first place. And not "skeletons flood extravaganza".

 

[felipepepe]

I don't get it. What is wrong with the combat? If done right, it looks like the best action-combat EVER. No ridiculous HP loss - hitting your opponent in his face with the sword only to see that he "bled a little = -7HP". It looks like the fight should look, I guess. Movement looks great, parrying as well, protagonist wobbling after being hit by the sword or mace (especially the last fight of the video) Brilliant!. Like you would expect from the man being hit by the 20 kg steel ball on a fucking 1.5 meter chain!!!.

Apart from the troll with the mace, It feels like no one ever lands a blow... the guy fighting the dude with the battleaxe was ridiculous, not once they attacked using the full weight & speed of their weapons, they just flailed at each other, and suddenly the axe bro dies, showing that there's a "-7HP" going on in the background, but with absolutly no visual feedback of it, not even a bit of blood.

 

[Baron]

Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic given it's a stupendously impressive effort from one guy and his toadying résumé underlings. The combat could use a bit more work sure, but it's in alpha and still beats [heresy]GOLD BOX[/heresy] games with their zot zot zot whack gameplay, so I say embrace. In terms of immersion they'll create great dungeons and beautiful exteriors... and the rest, we don't know. It seems like amazing tech to build a great game with GIVE IT TO ME!! so wait and see, maybe their composer writes shit hot dialogue/bromance/what can change the nature of Diablo. I don't want to be shallow, but I'll need to see what a flail looks like smacking around that skeleton before I can decide.

Also, dialogue/quest editor.... As currently I'm imaging there's going to be an NPC with an ! above his head saying, "Run awkwardly over there! And retrieve my lost hammer! Oh nos, it was a #Orc amabush! Here is your gold as promised!"

 

[Baron]

37 Backers

$532 pledged of $4,000 goal

29 days to go

Pledge $30 or more : 6 backers. Sold out

Pledge $50 or more : 2 backers. Sold out

Project will probably still make its money but it's making it hard on itself. $3,468 to go and those wishing to donate have been capped at donating $20... It's like an NPC beggar refusing diamonds and rubies but will take any copper pieces you have.

Higher tier rewards were particularly bad anyway. Who cares about being some rival adventurer on an indie game, no one will ever encounter you. I want a trap named after me. You have stumbled into this thread and triggered Baron for 134 damage. Do you wish to reload?

You open the chest. You have released Baron. He emits a noxious gas cloud and petrifies The Brazlian Slaughter. The party finds 12 gold pieces. The party finds a ruby.

Give ruby to beggar.

You may not give ruby to beggar.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Solenttar looks like except for the Windows thingie.

 

[slowdive]

I'm working on additional higher tier ideas. I was thinking of items, NPCs, side quests (maybe one about beggers and rubys), but I think I may forget those and go with the trap idea...that's awesome! where do I send the check?

 

[Cynic]

You'd think with an engine that looked that cool, they'd at least get the fucking running animation right. Fuck it looks retarded.

edit: fuck I can't stop laughing at the fighting animations HAHAHAHAHA

 

[udm]

I dropped slowdive a message on KS regarding whether we'll be able to write our own rules or port those from existing systems, like Savage Worlds. Here's his reply:

I have been thinking about this as I have been coding and I have a couple of ideas. I haven't determined the optimal way to implement multiple rulesets and how easy it would be to adjust them. Currently I have all the core rules in a .dll file that could be switched out with another ruleset .dll, but this wouldn't be the most user friendly. I may try and have the rules be data file driven so that users could modify data files through an editor to adjust rules. Either way, i would like to make it flexible so that most settings could be done. Hopefully we get funded ;-) Please help us spread the word in any way you can. Thanks again for your support!

 

[Primordial Soup Nazi]

Solenttar kinda has a Spiderweb feel to it. Not necessarily the worst thing ever. Its nice that the editor is designed from the get to be what you're buying. Holy crap, those placeholder portraits, though...

Sui Generis sounds nice, but...

-The character animations are distractingly awkward
-No stretch-goal marketing is an astronomical mistake
-Showing off an awesome world-building toolset, but not guaranteeing its inclusion with release is lame
-"Dark medieval world" can't explain away boring environments

On the plus side, the lighting could make for some awesome dungeons, and it sounds like save-scumming will be a non-issue.

 

[Jarpie]

Solenttar devs also haven't decided art-style yet, I think art-style reminiscent of early 90s VGA games would suit it.

 

[Semper]

I don't get it. What is wrong with the combat? If done right, it looks like the best action-combat EVER.

there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the combat system but the animations. if they would've gone the way of handcraftet animation sequences with blending of impacting kinetic force it would look worlds better (e.g. fight night or overgrowth). right now their animations seem to be heavily calculated, and every limb of the characters out of control and detached from their parent locator. it simply looks wonky.

 

[villain of the story]

"ground breaking RPG"
" ultimate role-playing experience"

Uh-huh.

What the fuck are they doing writing in "Risks and Challenges" have they not seen the Brian Fargo Guide to Parting Fools from their Money? Never tell your potential customers there are risks or challenges involved. Making great, unique, life-changing RPGs on a shoe-string budget is no challenge. It's an easy ride into fame and fortune. A highway paved in gold and good intentions.

Is your complaint with the content in the Risks and Challenges section or that the section is there, at all? It is a section Kickstarter requires for all projects and it tends to force people to create some rather awkward responses that remind me of when it's time to fill out the annual self-review at work and answer questions like "what do you feel has been your biggest challenge this year/next year?".

http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store

It's Kickstarter's half-assed attempt to placate criticism of the risks inherent in the nature of crowd-funding without actually going so far as to start vetting the projects they host (which they need to, if they want to continue to be a relevant business beyond the next year as their entire existence depends on accountability and trust).

Not this conservative scaremongering bullshit again. Funny that Kickstarter has been around for a while now without any of that bullshit before it attracted the spotlights during the last 6 months, and it will most likely continute to be around a lot longer also without any of that bullshit.

Fucking people and their desire to babysit people.

 

[A user named cat]

So Generics looks like it has a really fun toolset to play around with but I can't imagine them making a good game out of it. Probably just another hack n' slasher, except with nice physics. Environments certainly look sharp and pretty, but incredibly lifeless and bland. Titan Quest also technically looked great with decent physics and we all know how that piece of repetitive, phat loots crap turned out.

 

[godsend1989]

Sui Generis combat looks like 2 drunks fighting, its kind of hilarious, how can you dodge that huge beast when you cant even stand still.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

Man, the Generis engine got massive potential. If they combine it with a great RPG system, it could become a great game. People who can't see that have no imagination.
Question is, do you believe in it?
I want to see part 2 where they explain their visions for the actual game!

And Solenttar looks nice as well.

Thinking of backing both.

 

[kaizoku]

Providing our tools for creating user content is something we're taking under serious consideration. We will do whatever we can to make this possible but we're not yet comfortable with promising a complete modding solution. Some of the more advanced features currently require significant technical knowledge and providing a broad user friendly experience could prove challenging.

Yes. This is a single comment that immediately made me uncomfortable and weary. The editor looks SO fucking GOOD. Why they would say: we are not sure atm? It looks easy to use for illiterates, at least where the terrain, seasonal/day-night effects comes to play. Plus physical model for interactions (don't know if that is implemented in the editor, or hard coded)... It is the next platinum mine!

Yet, they are saying... Well, we will see if we can give it to you... That is a serious misjudgement in their pitch IMHO.

what the hell are you saying!?

several other KS have been on the fence on providing a toolkit (including codex cock sucked W2 and PE)

what he showed doesn't make a modding toolkit

Because our initial inspiration for this game came to us many years ago (long before it was possible to develop it) the story has already been thoroughly developed. It is the result of many inspired moments by various members of the team and some of us are capable writers. We would however like to hire a writer to help with the bulk of dialogue etc.

We are not doing a typical quest with reward system but being hired to perform tasks will certainly be there. I will give an example of what might transpire in the game.

You are offered a valuable object to complete some task. This could be a lie, it could be a way to lure you into a trap and rob you, for example. If the reward does exist, you might decide to find out where the person offering it lives and look for it in their house rather than completing the task. You may get caught doing this, or you may even be hired by the same person to retrieve the stolen item. And so on and so forth.

The world will feature something similar to a feudal society. There are races besides humans but they are dramatically different from humans, in conventional terms more monsters than races. There are no warring factions as such but there is a major ongoing conflict.

Fighting multiple opponents will not be so uncommon and knockdowns are not quite as frequent or dangerous as you might think in most fights. When fighting something like the large ogre you might want some help, though once you have built up your character's powers you may be able to accomplish a lot alone.

As a side note our character physics are advanced but they are also very performance efficient. There will be plenty of characters

source: http://www.baremettle.com/sg/forums/index.php?threads/questions-about-sui-generis.6/

we all very much agree with hitpoints being a tired mechanic. Originally we went for a stamina based system that entailed such a diminuition of abilities. Gameplay wise this didn't quite work out as we had planned and so we removed it. We are still using a stamina and injury system but to be honest we haven't settled on final mechanics. There will certainly be no instant healing and no hitpoints, tougher opponents will be more resistant to damage of certain types.
All damage is locational, some weapons and attacks will allow accurate targeting, and so will powers. Armour will also cover specific body parts rather than confer some kind of defence, different body parts will naturally have different vulnerabilities.
You will definitely only control a single character but you may have people fighting alongside you. In some fights you may well need the support.

It keeps getting better and better.

So Generics looks like it has a really fun toolset to play around with but I can't imagine them making a good game out of it. Probably just another hack n' slasher, except with nice physics. Environments certainly look sharp and pretty, but incredibly lifeless and bland. Titan Quest also technically looked great with decent physics and we all know how that piece of repetitive, phat loots crap turned out.

He said combat will be moderate. It won't be a Diablo.
That raises the question... what will the gameplay be about?

I'm also curious if it's a solo game, or will you be able to have a party.
And is it pure RT or will it be RTwP?

Sui Generis combat looks like 2 drunks fighting, its kind of hilarious, how can you dodge that huge beast when you cant even stand still.

the PC lost his balance when he swinged his sword.
This could mean any of the following: it requires some tunning on the engine equations; the PC is a low STR wimp; he already took lots of damage (stamina drain)

 

[Johannes]

Providing our tools for creating user content is something we're taking under serious consideration. We will do whatever we can to make this possible but we're not yet comfortable with promising a complete modding solution. Some of the more advanced features currently require significant technical knowledge and providing a broad user friendly experience could prove challenging.

Yes. This is a single comment that immediately made me uncomfortable and weary. The editor looks SO fucking GOOD. Why they would say: we are not sure atm? It looks easy to use for illiterates, at least where the terrain, seasonal/day-night effects comes to play. Plus physical model for interactions (don't know if that is implemented in the editor, or hard coded)... It is the next platinum mine!

Yet, they are saying... Well, we will see if we can give it to you... That is a serious misjudgement in their pitch IMHO.

what the hell are you saying!?

several other KS have been on the fence on providing a toolkit (including codex cock sucked W2 and PE)

what he showed doesn't make a modding toolkit

It's pretty understandable that if you've got a physics tech demo as your pitches main draw, people will expect to play around with that engine. Their upcoming game is less exciting since about that, there's only some idealistic goals to show so far.

And what does make a modding toolkit, then? Why can't modders be expected to learn and use the tools the original team uses, I never understood.