RPGs cannot have action-based movement or combat, Fallout: New Vegas is not an RPG

[Lacrymas]

Bioware never made anything even remotely close to New Vegas or Alpha Protocol in terms of being a RPG or fun.

IE games are probably the most overrated adventure games of all time.

Too bad neither New Vegas nor Alpha Protocol are RPGs.

 

[Maculo]

Bioware never made anything even remotely close to New Vegas or Alpha Protocol in terms of being a RPG or fun.

IE games are probably the most overrated adventure games of all time.

Too bad neither New Vegas nor Alpha Protocol are RPGs.

You just had to go and open that pandora's box, didn't you?

 

[frajaq]

Too bad neither New Vegas nor Alpha Protocol are RPGs.

 

[FreeKaner]

Bioware never made anything even remotely close to New Vegas or Alpha Protocol in terms of being a RPG or fun.

IE games are probably the most overrated adventure games of all time.

Too bad neither New Vegas nor Alpha Protocol are RPGs.

True and IE games are RTS derivative hack & slash.

Which makes PoE as derivative as Overwatch.

 

[Lacrymas]

True and IE games are RTS derivative hack & slash.

Which makes PoE as derivative as Overwatch.

Sure, why not.

Maybe you should start playing the game before making a lot of vague assumptions about what you've played in the beta, at least I cry because I played through the whole game and know what it's main issues are, but you just cry for the sake of crying and hope someone agrees with you. Play the damn game and then you can come here and cry like a proper man.

Nah, I value my time more than that, I'll wait for the patches. I'm not crying, you are confusing things. The assumptions aren't vague, they turned out to be quite accurate.

 

[Sizzle]

Bioware never made anything even remotely close to New Vegas or Alpha Protocol in terms of being a RPG or fun.

IE games are probably the most overrated adventure games of all time.

Too bad neither New Vegas nor Alpha Protocol are RPGs.

You've finally reached that point where you're contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian.

 

[Lacrymas]

The game is better than first one. I would say companions are the most major flaw in both writing and the setting which is a bit funny, if you take sidekicks and adventures the game feels better. Also I thought you played only with hired adventurers and not companions.

Yeah, I do, that doesn't make the companions and sidekicks not lack content. I'd have preferred to have more companions with the content ratio of BG1, but that's not what they are going for.

You've finally reached that point where you're contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian.

I have always, always said that New Vegas isn't an RPG, it's a shooter. I can quote many posts where I've said this.

 

[Sizzle]

You've finally reached that point where you're contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian.

I have always, always said that New Vegas isn't an RPG, it's a shooter. I can quote many posts where I've said this.

You do realize that saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true?

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm just saying that this isn't anything new and it isn't just for the sake of being contrarian. It isn't an RPG, though, it's a shooter. If we allow New Vegas to be counted as an RPG, we might as well just remove that genre from existence, it obviously doesn't mean or define anything.

 

[Sizzle]

I'm just saying that this isn't anything new and it isn't just for the sake of being contrarian. It isn't an RPG, though, it's a shooter. If we allow New Vegas to be counted as an RPG, we might as well just remove that genre from existence, it obviously doesn't mean or define anything.

Too bad it has more RPG elements than most games you probably would count as RPGs.

Besides, it's possible to complete it without doing any shooting (or punching, or whatever) in a pacifist run, so there goes that, too.

 

[Lacrymas]

You can finish Deus Ex or Dishonored without shooting as well, it doesn't make them RPGs. Dialogue, perks and choices aren't "RPG elements", those can be in any game ever. Being an RPG doesn't automatically make something good or not being an RPG bad.

 

[FreeKaner]

You can finish Deus Ex or Dishonored without shooting as well, it doesn't make them RPGs. Dialogue, perks and choices aren't "RPG elements", those can be in any game ever.

What are RPG elements?

 

[Lacrymas]

What are RPG elements?

The divide seems to be coming from a misunderstanding of the medium itself. C&C, non-linearity, roleplaying (as in choosing story and combat options without stats), affecting the story, etc. can be in every game ever due to the interactive nature of video games, while roleplaying based on stats can't be. Think Fallout and AoD. Basically, to qualify as an RPG, it has to fulfill some of these criteria -

1. Stats affecting your character's ability to influence the game world in and out of combat (Fallout, AoD). This is the crux of the matter and many RPGs don't get this right. This is where the "role" in "role-playing" comes into play. If you aren't playing a character with inherent strengths and weaknesses (represented by the stats) then there can't really be any "role"-playing, can there? You are playing yourself. This is also where the term RPG kind of portrays itself as inadequate because of -
2. "UI-driven" combat. That means combat should be controlled through the UI and not through your direct keyboard and mouse input, i.e. no "left-click for fast attack, right-click for heavy attack", you know the drill. The most common form of RPG. Think IE games and most blobbers.
3. You are playing defined individuals (or an individual), so no masses of faceless mooks like RTSes.
4. "Indirect movement", as in your character can only interpret movement commands, rather than pressing CTRL to dodge or something like that. First-person blobbers don't have dodging in that sense or movement outside of directions on the map, but it's much more intuitive to directly control those directions, and they fulfill the second and third criteria.

The term is much more rigid than people think and I think it's strengthened by having a concrete framework, especially on a forum for RPGs.

What's more RPG, Diablo or New Vegas?

Diablo. New Vegas is an FPS.

 

[Quillon]

We had this discussion already ffs.

You do realize that saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true?

 

[FreeKaner]

Lacrymas I mean I think this argument is flawed in and of itself but I'll take it for granted that Diablo and Diablo-clones are RPGs.

However, you are aware that New Vegas has character attributes, skills, perks and traits right? You won't be able to kill an enemy if your guns skill is 10 and you are trying to shoot them with starting pistol. In fact New Vegas' skills and attribute gap is bigger than Diablo.

 

[Sizzle]

Diablo? Jesus Christ, dude.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's a shooter because you directly control the shooting, it definitely doesn't matter that gun skill influences that, otherwise Deus Ex is also an RPG. Diablo and clones are more hack and slashers than RPGs, though, they are just "more RPG" than New Vegas.

 

[frajaq]

New Vegas is an RPG

 

[Quillon]

New Vegas is an RPG

New Vegas is THE RPG!

 

[FreeKaner]

It's a shooter because you directly control the shooting, it definitely doesn't matter that gun skill influences that, otherwise Deus Ex is also an RPG. Diablo and clones are more hack and slashers than RPGs, though, they are just "more RPG" than New Vegas.

If you also cede that blobbers are not RPGs due direct movement control, even though you excused them in the previous post, then I'll concede that New Vegas isn't a RPG.

However it's kind of deranged that you accept Diablo/clones as RPGs because the criteria you set up happened to include it, you could add an extra criteria to exclude them like you did with faceless mooks to exclude strategy games. Age of Mythology has defined individuals you control by the way, which fits your criteria with the rest as well. You even choose defined Gods to give you particular powers. Its campaign also features you taking these defined individuals to an adventure where they have dialogue, they also have stats and skills that cannot be influenced with direct input.

 

[AwesomeButton]

What's this idiocy I'm reading about FNV not being an RPG?

 

[Sizzle]

It's a shooter because you directly control the shooting, it definitely doesn't matter that gun skill influences that, otherwise Deus Ex is also an RPG. Diablo and clones are more hack and slashers than RPGs, though, they are just "more RPG" than New Vegas.

How about we don't focus on the shooting (because, like I said - you don't actually have to shoot anything)? Also, if it bothers you that much, play it in quasi-TB (V.A.T.S.).

It has skills that matter (and get more usage than the ones in FO1-2), oodles of C&C, branching questlines, etc.

 

[MajorMace]

I refuse to discuss the nature of rpgs before we've tackled the nature of paladins.

 

[fantadomat]

Where are you people seeing criticisms? Or at least specific ones? I just said that the mute sidekicks have even less content than what BG1 offered and said BG1 had huge maps and 25 companions, something that Obsidian struggles with.

The game is better than first one. I would say companions are the most major flaw in both writing and the setting which is a bit funny, if you take sidekicks and adventures the game feels better. Also I thought you played only with hired adventurers and not companions.

Not rally,they are kind off on the same level...for different reasons. Deadfire only have better graphics,useless better itematisation and cooler city,everything else is worst than PoE.

 

[FreeKaner]

I refuse to discuss the nature of rpgs before we've tackled the nature of paladins.

Paladins were French, thus if a game features Paladins that aren't French it doesn't count.