RTwP is an abomination and harbinger of decline

[Modron]

Please provide links

rpgcodex.net

rpgcodex.com back then before DU forgot the password to the email he registered the site with.

 

[Tyranicon]

The pause function in most rtwp games is similar to the pause function in total war games. You're not really supposed to use it. If the action is too fast and the game too difficult for you, just lower the difficulty. That's how I play it anyway.

RTwP games are pretty enjoyable if you want to turn off your brain, set up AI behaviors and then just throw your party at an encounter. This is why good AI behavior (including pathfinding!) can make RTwP good.

But ultimately it's catering to casuals so the crowd here will always view it as decline.

 

[octavius]

The highly ironic thing about TB combat is that it's not CRPGs that have the best TB combat (at least among older games), but hybrids like OpenXcom and Jagged Alliance 2. Even TBS games Age of Wonders 1-2 have better combat than the vast majority of CRPGs.

 

[Arbiter]

but hybrids like OpenXcom

OpenXcom is a contemporary recreation of the UFO/XCOM engine.

 

[octavius]

I assume people in 2023 play OpenXcom instead of the original UFO Defense and Terror From the Deep.

 

[Dadd]

it's not CRPGs that have the best TB combat (at least among older games), but hybrids like OpenXcom and Jagged Alliance 2. Even TBS games Age of Wonders 1-2 have better combat than the vast majority of CRPGs.

I agree with this but why is it ironic? These games can focus much more on combat than CRPGs.

 

[octavius]

Because discussions about combat in games always revolve around CRPGs, while games like OX and JA2 are dismissed as CRPGs because they have a strategy layer.

 

[Arbiter]

and JA2 are dismissed as CRPGs

On Codex JA2 is in top 20, before Witcher 3.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

IE games + NWN derivatives aren't rtwp because they aren't real time. Having a discrete time step is the opposite of real time.

Planck time (plural Planck times) (Abbreviated as: tP) (physics) A natural unit of time, equivalent to the time it takes light to traverse one Planck length; it is the smallest duration of time that has physical meaning.

It's the smallest duration that has physical meaning to us because it's the smallest we can observe, that does not mean time is not continuous.

People who think IE games are rtwp simply don't understand how the games work, there is nothing any more real time about them than say, watching another player take his turn in a turn based game.

 

[Dadd]

and JA2 are dismissed as CRPGs

On Codex JA2 is in top 20, before Witcher 3.

Witcher 3 is not a good game so how is this relevant?

 

[Arbiter]

People who think IE games are rtwp simply don't understand how the games work, there is nothing any more real time about them than say, watching another player take his turn in a turn based game.

No games are truly realtime, game state is updated a few dozen times a second, so the smallest observable time unit is typically 20-50 ms. Rendering engines can improve the illusion of continuity by interpolating movement and animations between 2 or more frames even if game state has not changed between them.

Rounds in IE do not change that fundamental restriction.

 

[Arbiter]

Witcher 3 is not a good game so how is this relevant?

As I mentioned before nugames are gaining on classics in Codex ranking.

 

[Modron]

Nu posters put nu games higher up the polls news at eleven.

 

[Dadd]

Witcher 3 is not a good game so how is this relevant?

As I mentioned before nugames are gaining on classics in Codex ranking.

In forum discussions the Witcher 3 is not respected much so JA2 ranking higher than a game that is generally considered shitty has no bearing on whether JA2 is dismissed as a CRPG or not.

 

[Arbiter]

Witcher 3 is not a good game so how is this relevant?

As I mentioned before nugames are gaining on classics in Codex ranking.

In forum discussions the Witcher 3 is not respected much so JA2 ranking higher than a game that is generally considered shitty has no bearing on whether JA2 is dismissed as a CRPG or not.

1. JA2 is in top 20
2. JA2 is close to classics like AoD, Underrail and Gothic.

JA2 is therefore considered an RPG on Codex.

 

[Tyranicon]

Careful, we're getting dangerously close to hashing out what an RPG is for nth time here.

 

[Arbiter]

Careful, we're getting dangerously close to hashing out what an RPG is for nth time here.

 

[Arvennios]

I like both, and although I prefer turned-based combat myself, no TBS game can rival the pure chaos, epicness and intensity of a high-level party battling against some equally tough opponents in RTWP game, the Archdemon in Dragon Age Origins, the Demogorgon in BGII, Vordekai or the Stag Lord in Kingmaker, that multi-armed monstrosity in Icewind dale and I could go on and on.

​

 

[Volourn]

People claiming bg series is for casuals when there's been tons of whining on how people can't handle low level enemies like xvarts, or how the game doesnt actually handhold you.

If push comes to shove, I personally prefer tb as I'm lazy like that but bg series had better combat than almost all tb games. Hmmmm... weird.

 

[octavius]

To me what makes RTwP interesting is the combination of turns/rounds with simultaneity.
In TB everybody politely await their turn, while RT is mostly down to the player's agility and dexterity. RTwP feels more like a real combat, while TB is heavily abstracted.
If I have to choose I prefer TB, but RTwP makes for good variety.

 

[Tyranicon]

People claiming bg series is for casuals when there's been tons of whining on how people can't handle

I don't find TB games to be inherently harder than RTwP. If anything, my slow brain probably prefers TB because I can leave the game on in the background while I do other things. Like chess or something.

I would say that RTwP was made in mind to appeal to a more casual audience because:

RTwP feels more like a real combat, while TB is heavily abstracted.

TB is inherently more niche, as it is preferred by people who play TTRPGs. Since RTwP was a marked departure from RPG convention at the time, and probably in some way led to a drop to the amount of TB games, some people really don't like it.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

RPGcodex was kind of born on the idea that there were alternatives to Baldur's Gate that were better (Fallout).

Yes, this is why the Codex should filter prospective members with one simple question: Do you reject Bioware and all its works?

 

[Fictive Cunt]

IE games make me feel like an invisible general, commanding my troops. I have never used AI scripts when playing these games. Hell yes I hit the space bar constantly; pausing and giving commands is a huge part of the fun. If you really want turn based, set autopause to the end of every round, or after each of your party's moves, or whatever. The moniker RTwP is bullshit. There's nothing real time about it. Every single move is measured in rounds per turn.

 

[The_Mask]

RTwP is just a piece of history. It represents that time when PCs and people could do things at the same time. For better, or for worse, it is there.

Although, I have to admit that the more I advance in age, the more I favour a decent Turn-Based system.

 

[laclongquan]

SCS and IWD2 are superior to all tb games, including kotc2 and toee. They have most of the depth and what they lack in mechanics, they more than make up in not relying on initiative and aoe bullshit.

High level rtwp is better than high level tb. Reverse is true for low levels.

Correct in so far regard to Fantasy theme. With Science Fiction theme, UFO Aftershock and UFO Afterlight are jostling for the top spot.

You need to reconsider your perspective when playing rtwp games. It's like a rhythm game within an RPG game.

Also correct. That's the essential key in considering a RTwP battle. In contrast, you think of TB battles as Staccato beat, with each beat like a turn.

With RTwP battle, you have to consider the overall battle rhymn and press pause at certain point. Sometimes you let it play out bit long without doing anything, but sometimes you peek at the mini timer and BAM. And then you fill in commands so they will perform in turn later.