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Savegame limitations?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Pentium, Jul 25, 2021.

?

Should there be any savegame limitations in RPG games?

Poll closed Aug 25, 2021.
  1. Yes, I'm a die-hard RPG specky nerd, save scumming is lame

    24.4%
  2. No, wtf I'm a casual crybaby, let me save anytime I want

    49.6%
  3. Who needs saves anyway? I always play games in a trice with a pile of Red Bull cans

    1.5%
  4. RPG games are crap anyway

    23.7%
  1. otsego Cipher

    otsego
    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    This is totally incorrect. The game establishes the rules and boundaries and the player has fun working within those boundaries. Using a cheat engine goes outside of those boundaries, which of course is also fun otherwise the cheats wouldn't exist, but is an extra once you've had time with the boundaries already established.

    Who wants to start off any game with the ability to fly across mountains and kill enemies with a single blow? No one. Until they've already played it 'normally' several times over.
     
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  2. Peachcurl Learned

    Peachcurl
    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Magic makes things too easy in games. Remove magic. Magic is cheating.
     
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  3. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    So you're saying that saving is indeed part of the game's rules and therefore games are balanced around the idea that players will savescum?
    Thanks.
     
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  4. otsego Cipher

    otsego
    Joined:
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    Yes and no. I understand the argument of 'well if you always want the best outcome why not just put on a cheat that guarantees it', but sometimes you don't always want that outcome and the (save) system lets you choose it, which allows for some variation within the boundaries of the game as you want to play it. I don't see that as inherently bad, though I'd still argue games that are so random that they actively encourage save-scumming have some design issues.

    Rogue-likes aside.
     
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  5. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    Games never design routes other than success ones because they know cheaters(AKA casuals/codexers) will just savescum everytime they fail.
     
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  6. otsego Cipher

    otsego
    Joined:
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    Agreed that designers don't plan for routes of failure (for the most part). Disagree that savescumming is the reason for this design. If that was true then there would be no failure at all. Problem is even if they give an option of failure, there is no interesting outcome other than you lose something. Which also isn't inherently bad. But a casual does not like failing to get the cookie at the end of the trail.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  7. fantadomat Arcane Edgy

    fantadomat
    Joined:
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    29,437
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    Bulgaria
    Then don't use saves.
    :smug:
     
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  8. BING XI LAO FREE KALIN! Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    3,650
    Location:
    Mouse Utopia
    Insert Title Here
    Potentially interesting topic that deserves better than rusty's one-liners.
     
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  9. zwanzig_zwoelf Graverobber Foundation Developer

    zwanzig_zwoelf
    Joined:
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    You know what would be interesting? Allowing the computer opponents to savescum.

    Imagine an RPG where part of the fun is not killing the enemies ('cause they'll savescum), but crushing their will to fight (i.e. making them ragequit instead).
     
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  10. Gargaune Cipher

    Gargaune
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2020
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    Been done.

     
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  11. BING XI LAO FREE KALIN! Patron

    BING XI LAO
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    3,650
    Location:
    Mouse Utopia
    Insert Title Here
     
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  12. Techno Union Obvious alt

    Techno Union
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2021
    Messages:
    495
    Location:
    Kaboomistan
    Ah, yes, let's turn every choice into a Russian roulette that results in things that no sane person could have predicted. Did you say "Be more confident" to a guy in the early game? Too bad, now you can never remove the curse from the undead witch-queen in the consumed elven ruins. Butterfly effect, amirite? Lulz.
     
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  13. Gargaune Cipher

    Gargaune
    Joined:
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    Techno Union, you seem familiar somehow... Are you the artist formerly known as Auraculum?
     
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  14. Techno Union Obvious alt

    Techno Union
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2021
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    495
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    Kaboomistan
    [​IMG]
     
    • :M :M x 1
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  15. Azdul Augur

    Azdul
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    You've defeated a high level boss through cheap tactics and now you wear his shiny armor - people will notice it and may want to steal it for themselves.
    You've acquired something valuable through deception and lies - people will be more careful when making business with you.
    You've got caught stealing - NPC will be more likely to offer you lucrative illegal job.

    The quest results should not be just +1000 XP, +500 GP. Not everyone will be happy about your heroic deeds. For example - saving heir to the throne is the worst thing that could happen for the guy next in succession line.
     
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  16. Techno Union Obvious alt

    Techno Union
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2021
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    495
    Location:
    Kaboomistan
    And if I defeat a high level boss through expensive tactics and wear his shiny armor - people won't notice it and won't try to steal it for themselves?
     
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  17. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
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    9,072
    alternative is oblivion: use expensive tactics to obtain mithril armor only to be mugged by some ruffian with glass set
     
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  18. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
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    Location:
    Bjørgvin
    You are lvl 20 in Oblivion and Ambrose the Robber Kitten in full glass armour demands 10 gold from you or death.

    EDIT: ninjaed by a determined poster.
     
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  19. Pentium Learned

    Pentium
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Socket 5
    Show Spoiler
    NPCKill()
    {
    if(NPCDeaths > 1000)
    {
    instaSpawn = false;
    NPCSay ("Fuck you, bitch! Eat shit n kill ur mom n rape ur grandpa, anus fisting mothafucka African American!");​
    }
    else
    NPCDeaths++;​
    }
     
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  20. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
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    Location:
    Ingrija
    Are you implying that more xp and loot is somehow a bad thing? Bro, do you even RPG?
     
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  21. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
    Joined:
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    • Funny Funny x 4
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  22. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Cool. Now we need to invent a way to have computer opponents buy games, and we're set.
     
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  23. fantadomat Arcane Edgy

    fantadomat
    Joined:
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    29,437
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Looking at the world at this moment....i wouldn't be surprised if that happens. We do have bullshit magic coins like bitcoin and endless growth muh economy delusions,so it sounds pretty rational compared to that shit lol.
     
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  24. Azdul Augur

    Azdul
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    RPG is more fun when DM is an asshole.

    Low level player should suspect that the invisibility ring with infinite charges was clearly intended for someone more powerful. And player won't resist the temptation of using it to get out of embarassing social situation.

    At this point it does not matter that you have a save just before acquiring the ring. You'll stick to your choice and try to take advantage of poor Nazguls pathfinding - to get to the ferry before them.
     
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  25. Sinatar Arbiter

    Sinatar
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Messages:
    526
    The developers may be confident enough in their game's stability that they think it won't crash in between save spots.

    I'm not so confident. Fuck your console gimmicky save systems and just let me save the fucking game when and where I want. If some tryhard wants to go ironman and have some save limitations there is nothing stopping them from doing that.
     
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