sawyer wants rpg to evolve

[Ulfhednar]

I'm sorry have you seen the comments and posts by Critical Role fans trying out the first PoE? And thirsty Bioware fans coming in after they heard so much about romance in-game?

nu-Obsidian Entertainment doesn't need you anymore

Granted - but generally nu-Obsidian takes a more cordial tone when telling me to go fuck myself...

 

[Ruzen]

Sawyer winks AAA

 

[Quillon]

and pointed to Bethesda's success with games like Skyrim as examples of how the genre can change.

I'd really like to know what he meant by this. Because the "changes" brought by Skyrim was eliminating every RPG element in there aside from character level.

Need Infinitron to ask this via his tumblee.

Also good PR work for Deadfire from Sawyer when its around the corner

 

[Infinitron]

Need Infinitron to ask this via his tumblee.

There's not much to ask here. We already know what RPG developers mean when they talk about "Skyrim" and "making a Skyrim".

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/96937-to-josh-sawyer-about-latest-interview/?p=1998504
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...discussion-thread.84849/page-201#post-5295873

Sure, they could say "Fallout: New Vegas" instead of "Skyrim" and not trigger Codexers as much, but at least in this context it seems like it made more sense to mention Skyrim given that it was Bethesda who popularized that general style of RPG and thus "changed the genre".

 

[Junmarko]

There's not much to ask here.

...the fuck the meaning of this?!

 

[Sentinel]

lol, Infinitron with the trumple syndrome

"He doesn't actually mean this incredibly dumb thing, he's just talking in code language and referring to an entire 20 year old genre by naming a specific game that came out in 2011 and removed every rpg aspect"

 

[Infinitron]

lol, Infinitron with the trumple syndrome

"He doesn't actually mean this incredibly dumb thing, he's just talking in code language and referring to an entire 20 year old genre by naming a specific game that came out in 2011 and removed every rpg aspect"

Yep that's pretty much what I'm saying! Skyrim was insanely popular and it marked the moment when the genre irrevocably became associated with a certain type of open world experience. I don't think its exact mechanics or "RPG aspect" are the focus here at all.

More generally, which of these things do you thinks makes more sense?

1) Two weeks before the release of his next game, Josh Sawyer goes nuts, attacks his fanbase, and says such games are a "problem" that needs to be solved by replacing them with literal Skyrim clones.

2) In a freewheeling conversation about how roleplaying games can evolve, Josh Sawyer self-deprecatingly admits that his own most recent games haven't been very evolutionary. Also, gaming journalist are clickbait hacks and you should never trust their summary of anything, let alone a summary of a summary.

 

[Roguey]

Cites Skyrim, does not cite Divinity: Original Sin 2, Age of Decadence, Tides of Numenera, Disco Pretentious

 

[Cross]

I don't think its exact mechanics or "RPG aspect" are the focus here at all.

Now that I think about it, the 'evolution' of the Elder Scrolls series does seem to mirror Sawyer's personal preferences for RPG mechanics.

Skyrim got rid of attributes and Sawyer has been quite vocal about wanting to remove attributes and preferring skill-based RPGs without attributes.

Oblivion introduced regenerating magicka; PoE de-emphasized resource-based spellcasting with per-encounter abilities and now with Deadfire, Sawyer has eliminated resource-based spellcasting entirely.

You also have the removal of utility spells, the de-emphasis of racial differences and lots of other things PoE and Skyrim have in common relative to their predecessors.

 

[Junmarko]

does not cite Divinity: Original Sin 2, Age of Decadence, Tides of Numenera, Disco Pretentious

He wants a bigger market scope this time.

 

[Prime Junta]

Relevant:

(He chickened out and deleted the tweet later though.)

 

[Sentinel]

lol, Infinitron with the trumple syndrome

"He doesn't actually mean this incredibly dumb thing, he's just talking in code language and referring to an entire 20 year old genre by naming a specific game that came out in 2011 and removed every rpg aspect"

Yep that's pretty much what I'm saying! Skyrim was insanely popular and it marked the moment when the genre irrevocably became associated with a certain type of open world experience. I don't think its exact mechanics or "RPG aspect" are the focus here at all.

More generally, which of these things do you thinks makes more sense?

1) Two weeks before the release of his next game, Josh Sawyer goes nuts, attacks his fanbase, and says such games are a "problem" that needs to be solved by replacing them with literal Skyrim clones.

2) In a freewheeling conversation about how roleplaying games can evolve, Josh Sawyer self-deprecatingly admits that his own most recent games haven't been very evolutionary. Also, gaming journalist are clickbait hacks and you should never trust their summary of anything, let alone a summary of a summary.

3) Two weeks before the release of his next game, in a freewheeling conversation about how roleplaying games can evolve, Josh Sawyer self-deprecatingly admits that his own most recent games haven't been very evolutionary. He points at Skyrim, and The Elder Scrolls franchise by extension, a franchise that has removed RPG elements with each subsequent release (even Sawyer calls Skyrim an action oriented game) as a good example of how RPGs can change.

Now, tell me, what the fuck is the example here? RPGs can evolve by removing RPG elements? Because that's the only new thing Skyrim did. Being "immersive" or "open-world" was old news by the time Skyrim came out.

 

[Infinitron]

The original VG247 article that PC Gamer cited as the source for their post doesn't even mention Skyrim.

 

[Sentinel]

well fuck PCGaymer then.

 

[ga♥]

The original VG247 article that PC Gamer cited as the source for their post doesn't even mention Skyrim.

Well it says the Elder Scrolls games, actually, the evolution taken by the Elder Scrolls games, which became Skyrim with the last incarnation.

"He pointed to Bethesda’s success with Fallout and The Elder Scrolls games as examples of a developer taking role-playing games in a different direction"

So the interpration is correct by PC Gamer IMHO. I am sure he wasn't pointing at Daggerfall when he was talking about "different direction".

EDIT: Also how Fallout evolved.

 

[Junmarko]

well fuck PCGaymer then.

Could also be Bethesda Warhorse + Obsidian this time - incl Cain and Boyarsky. (?)

 

[ga♥]

Maybe after POE2 he will leave Obsiddian and join Bethesda hence those talks.

 

[ga♥]

Well, Infinitron, ofc I am just speculating. But why would you say those things now? 2 weeks before POE2 comes out?

I wouldn't be surprised if they offered him some big role, for let's say the next Fallout.

 

[Roguey]

Maybe after POE2 he will leave Obsiddian and join Bethesda hence those talks.

After what he pulled with New Vegas and the minor controversy that happened when he discussed its engine and the PS3's memory issues, I doubt Josh will ever be welcome at BGS.

 

[CptMace]

I'm looking for sawyer, middle-aged guy

 

[Infinitron]

As far as I can tell, being a highly paid MVP at a small company is the Sawyer dream job. Roguey can probably give you quotes of him saying he didn't enjoy working with too-large teams etc. Seems like he's exactly where he wants to be!

 

[Quillon]

He speaks this freely cos he knows atm half of what Obs represents is him, therefor he's untouchable At least until Cainarsky game comes out, probably.

 

[ga♥]

Or maybe Feargus finally found a way to sell Obsiddian (to Bethesda).

Anyway the timing seems suspicious "hey guys our new game that is coming out in 2 weeks is too tradionalistic! Our goddamn conservative audiance needs to change... or we will change the audience!"

Really?

 

[Infinitron]

In case it's not clear, this isn't something Josh just volunteered in an interview. The VG247 article is a (very lacking in context) writeup of what he said at a Reboot Develop panel that was specifically about "Evolving the Genre".

Friday, 20th of April - 17:30-18:30
PANEL: Evolving the Genre

Panelists: Jullian Gollop, Patrice Desilets, Charles Cecil, Josh Sawyer, Moderator: Dan Pearson

But this kind of talk, about how stats aren't strictly necessary, the definition of RPG is character expression, isn't actually new for Sawyer. He's said this stuff before, we had plenty of flamewars about it during the PoE1 days.

 

[ga♥]

Well, I hope the video will be available soon. Wasn't last Reboot Develop where Tim Cain introduced the "shapes" thing?