turkishronin
Arcane
(game is Dies Irae)
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- Thread starter potatojohn
- Start date
(game is Dies Irae)
Heroic Liberator
Arcane
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Today I noticed for the first time that Hatred actually takes place on the Kowloon Peninsula. The more you know.
A better comparison for Silent Storm would be the Men of War series. WW2, strategy, almost every building can be leveled to the ground and tanks have locational armor and penetration values.
Most of the games in your list don't have destruction that is as universal as the destruction in SS. Other than maybe Red Faction: Guerrilla, where every building can be leveled to the ground.
Danikas
Arcane
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Company of Heroes and World in Conflict.
THE MECHANIC: Destructible environments
Most of the features on a Company of Heroes map can be destroyed: fences, walls, buildings, the ground itself. Destruction provides a great deal of its real-time strategy and also the game’s whole identity, which evokes the WWII we know from the photographs, films and stories that memorialise the fierce fighting that swept through northern France, leaving hedgerows and fields, farms and towns in ruins.
And let’s be honest, it’s also a thrill to see your actions written into the world. Shellholes and breaches are a record of the skirmishes and pitched battles you’ve fought. Though Company of Heroes was released 11 years ago, it’s still a novelty to see a game world respond so expansively to your decisions.
It all comes from a simple idea: giving soldiers cover. “We were looking at the original vision and source material and cover was obviously critical to the experience of soldiers on the frontline,” Quinn Duffy, who was senior designer on the game, tells me. The first prototypes featured basic all-around cover, and Relic noted the way it encouraged players to preserve their troops. And then the team switched from using the old engine it had used to make Impossible Creatures to a new one, called Essence, and with it came cover that was directional.
“That was the big defining change in terms of environments in the game,” says Duffy. Now units would only be covered from one side, creating opportunities for them to be flanked or approached from the rear. Relic then wanted the cover to be destructible, with weapons impacting on it: machine guns tearing through fences, grenades blowing walls down.
The result was a relationship that defined the ambitions Duffy and his team had for their game. “We wanted to create movement and fluidity and adaptability in the world. To force troops to move and for players to move them around, seeking better cover.”
But in making an actual game out of this relationship, Relic encountered all manner of knock-on effects which ended up pulling in the creative skills of the entire studio to solve them. “We had to be really aware that by deciding to destroy the environment we were signing up for emergent gameplay in every system, not just a few,” senior artist Alun Bjorksten tells me.
Some effects were practical. If guns are firing on cover, then the player needed to see the bullets impact on it to understand what’s happening. So Relic had to create little visual features to support that, including extra effects, such as the machine gun tracking its bullets across ground and up to the cover to give players awareness, as well as a sense of drama.
And say you’ve got a squad of riflemen behind a fence that’s under fire from a machine gun. When the fence falls apart, the riflemen needed to be able to automatically shift to find the next cover so they had a sense of life, so a kind of self-preservation system had to be built to manage that.
And then there’s pathfinding. In the first Company of Heroes, soldiers can’t cross fences and walls, so once vehicles and explosions start breaking them up, troops’ access to different parts of the map completely change.
“It made the map design interesting,” says Duffy. “If you put a fence in you needed to know the pathfinding distance it would add, and you needed to ensure it wasn’t going to block troops.” Map design was an exercise in breaking the game into phases for when during the battle certain weapons and vehicles with the power to destroy objects would appear, and accounting in the environment for their effects on changing the pathfinding.
Sometimes destruction would remove access to areas, such as when buildings are reduced to impassible rubble. Bjorksten remembers when the team made it possible to destroy bridges, but before it was possible to repair them. “We were like, we’re going to destroy the bridge! And then you realised you couldn’t progress any more. So we needed to repair as well as destroy, and then to destroy the repair. You could easily invalidate the gameplay.”
Philosophical decisions had to be made, too. If a wall falls down and the AI isn’t there to see it, does it know about it? Relic decided it had to.
This creative choice is what’s behind those times when you see AI begin magically pouring through a new gap in defences. “There’s a desire to make them only aware of what they can see, but it’s not always realistic in terms of the knock-on behaviours,” says Duffy. Without this supernatural awareness, the AI could get stuck because it doesn’t have long-range knowledge about the world to be able to find its way to where it wants to go.
Players can also put down barriers, like barbed wire and sandbags, further tweaking the way units can access different areas of the maps. And in these being destructible came another issue, as Duffy explains: “You put a nice sandbag emplacement overlooking a road and set your machine gun up, all super cool and tactical, and then your first vehicle comes and drives right through the middle of it.”
“The Tiger tank has this ability called ‘heavy crush’, which can crush objects that other vehicles can’t,” says Bjorksten. “Once it’s on the map then all bets are off because this thing could go through all kinds of things you’d set up neatly as chokepoints.”
Destroying your own defences is a long-standing frustration in Company of Heroes, but like the prescient AI, it’s a result of accounting for wider problems. First, Relic needed to avoid players being able to accidentally block in their own vehicles with their defences. Relic also knew the appeal of that same vehicle crushing the enemy’s defences. And then there was the way pathfinding works. The game has a grid of the world that records in every location what objects units can pass through it. When somewhere is marked passable to a heavy crush vehicle, as far it’s concerned it’s just open ground, blind to what’s actually there. Unfortunately that means it’s also blind to your own defences.
“I think game design and development is months and years of constant little compromises and weighing pros and cons, and that’s the daily occurrence,” says Duffy. “There was a lot of debate about this and how much we tried to preserve elements of the maps so the early infantry cover combat was maintained while also being able to have vehicles rampage around and not get stuck on objects or do slow turns around things and get killed. When the maps were really populated with crushable stuff, vehicles became tough to use because they had slow turn rates and they’d expose their weak armour. Those frustrations aren’t worth the trade-offs.”
Not all the ramifications of making things destructible were problems. They also led to design opportunities. For instance, if you have cover, you can start to design weapons that are effective against it, like the grenade. And if you have buildings, soldiers should be able to go inside. And if they’re inside, they should be able to shoot out of it. “So they should poke holes in buildings and use them,” says Duffy. “Alun spent like a year making buildings work.”
Every asset needed a set of destruction states and physics objects attached to them to represent damage. They also needed to have rules attached to them to represent whether they’d block pathfinding or provide cover or other things. “We probably tripled the cost of making the game because of this!” says Bjorksten. But buildings were a special case. Relic wanted them to look like the ones you see in period photos, where every window is different, where rooflines don’t meet up and nothing’s symmetrical, and where damage varies enormously.
“We knew we couldn’t just create a set of pre-damaged buildings, because you’d see the repeats of the same building over and over again, so out of this was born an epic system for designing these systems in what we called panels.” Every building was divided into 10ft by 10ft pieces, and then written into the rendering code were ways to punch holes or collapse them. Two people worked on this system for two years, almost full-time, creating the art and figuring how the the texture memory available to PCs at the time could hold it all.
“There are 230 different damaged states that you can put a building into,” Bjorksten says. That’s 1,073,741,824. “It’s quite the system.”
And along with their appearance, buildings had an impact on the game itself. Weapons had different effects on them, including the number of panels they’d damage and its extent. They’d have sight-blocking and shot-blocking properties, too. (The team had to also account for stats and random values occasionally leading to cases such as V1 rockets impacting on a building and doing no damage.)
“I don’t know if many teams have attempted that. Probably with good reason,” says Duffy.
I wonder if Relic ever found the scale of what Company of Heroes became daunting, but Duffy shrugs. “No more daunting than just building a big-ass game is daunting.” Perhaps that’s just with the benefit of knowing how well it turned out to work.
sser
Arcane
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Larry just lets it roll off the shoulder and goes back to building sand castles.
Also, dabbled in some Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy. Nice little battle with Germans assaulting a village (I played as Axis, offense is more difficult vs. AI).
Wiped them all out, though I lost a Stug III almost immediately upon Allied armor showing up. This was the final capture of the battle as it ended. A pair of Americans were hiding in the embankment for minutes and then, like doves rooted out by dogs, they took flight and were immediately mowed down by the Tiger. The "HIT: Weapon Mount" is the guy's M1 Carbine ricocheting off the Tiger's barrel about 0.1s before he eats a burst of MG42 in return. Valiant effort, but there were no P-51 Mustangs to save him this day...
Also, dabbled in some Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy. Nice little battle with Germans assaulting a village (I played as Axis, offense is more difficult vs. AI).
Wiped them all out, though I lost a Stug III almost immediately upon Allied armor showing up. This was the final capture of the battle as it ended. A pair of Americans were hiding in the embankment for minutes and then, like doves rooted out by dogs, they took flight and were immediately mowed down by the Tiger. The "HIT: Weapon Mount" is the guy's M1 Carbine ricocheting off the Tiger's barrel about 0.1s before he eats a burst of MG42 in return. Valiant effort, but there were no P-51 Mustangs to save him this day...
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- 29,864
Can you knife people in them though?
Danikas
Arcane
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Sounds very boring and safe.
Danikas
Arcane
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- Jun 15, 2017
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- 1,605
Welcome to the 20th century.
A horse of course
Guest
Today I noticed for the first time that Hatred actually takes place on the Kowloon Peninsula. The more you know.
I bought this for DarkUnderlord. He complained that the controls were too difficult for him and had a nap instead.
DraQ
Arcane
[Laughs in Children of a Dead Earth]
Completed Age of Wonders, taking the Undead route (will resume the Dark Elf path some other time). What a downbeat ending:
The Scourge of Humankind, almost singlehandedly wiping out the Human race from the Valley of Wonders:
He took a little breather and let a big black breather finish off Joseph, though. His Syron bodyguard was of no help, and apparantly he had no spells that worked either.
It's a bit sad how AoW breaks down once dragons and physical immune units come into play.
The Scourge of Humankind, almost singlehandedly wiping out the Human race from the Valley of Wonders:
He took a little breather and let a big black breather finish off Joseph, though. His Syron bodyguard was of no help, and apparantly he had no spells that worked either.
It's a bit sad how AoW breaks down once dragons and physical immune units come into play.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2014
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- 917
Today I noticed for the first time that Hatred actually takes place on the Kowloon Peninsula. The more you know.
I bought this for DarkUnderlord. He complained that the controls were too difficult for him and had a nap instead.
The controls kind of suck. Here's what to do to get the most enjoyment out of this game:
- Change the size/color of the crosshair. Seeing a small, white crosshair on a black&white background is a chore. The game handles much better once you know where you're aiming at.
- For full
experience, install "Mass Murderer - a FPS mod", which works so shockingly well (especially the environmental destruction) and is so much more fun than the base game that I can't help but wonder why the devs didn't include a first person mode in the first place. Give it a try!PrettyDeadman
Guest
Advanced skeleton AI:
Last edited by a moderator:
Fallout Tactics - Part II
7. Springfield ( Bonus mission, where we need to rescue mayor Avellone from evil racists who don't want ghouls in their town. Thanks to the Redux mod, we don't have to unlock via editing stuff like in vanilla version. Good mission for the experienced shooters, since there is a lot of space to cover, and we have a huge disadvantage for most of the time due to the size of the enemy forces. There are some high risk points, like western building. On top of it raiders are guarding lots of northern perimeters. The best approach is to divide the squad and attack from two sides simultaneously. Also, the sniper near the last building, where MCA is being held is a very nasty fella. He can kill in one shot and it's good to use someone with stealth.)
8. Mardin ( We start on the desert, which is rather uninteresting considering how easy is to kill animals and beastlords on the surface. The really interesting part, is when we reach the north west perimeters and go underground. We can free a talking deathclaw, who will help us fighting with the beastlord emperor, with some little cute deathclaws as well.)
9. St. Louis (The most painful mission in FT. We are fighting super mutants for the fist time, and they've got big guns, which can end the lives of our soldiers real quickly. APC helps a little, but it takes a lot of patience and time to clean the map and save our boys. For even more pain, you can kill all the super mutants in the north west. The base is really well covered, so in my case Dillon was a deadly bait, which helped to clean the tight entry point. It's really worth it, because of all the heavy weaponry and experience that is found there.)
As for my team:
Rynn: Own character. High INT + PE, finesse, small guns and doctor/first aid with the sniper perks unlocked later on. She kills, she heals, and will use energy weapons later on as well.
Farsight: Phenomenal, when it comes to critical shots and breaking the ongoing fights quickly to my advantage. She can't take make luggage with her, but she is worth every bullet other takes for her
Stitch: Doctor/barter guy. He could be much better, due to the lower PE and not having tagged small guns, but surprisingly he is good with shotguns and many times one hit killed some raiders. After maximizing barter on him I put him on hold before St. Louis.
Dillon: Thanks to helping ghouls earlier, I now have a perfect killing machine. The guy has 12 PE and with adding Better Criticals, Bonus Rate of Fire + More Criticals (3) you just don't want to loose him. Due to the armor restrictions at the beginning, and low health pool, it's really easy to get him killed. After obtaining power armor, he is becoming and essential part of ambushes and advances in the ranks of the brotherhood tremendously. Just like Farsight, he can't take much supplies, so others need to give him some slack. Nobody is perfect.
Billy: Very good warrior. Small guns combined with traps, make him perfect for cleaning up mines and explosives in the safes. Of course selling all the deadly components is a nice bonus. I never used mines during this playthrough. Also, he can take a lot of stuff.
Tarnak: Small guns with outdoorsman. He is tough as hell, has a lot of health and is a great mule as well. He can also throw grenades with a high precision, and through the whole campaign there is a lot of them to find from dead soldiers, and especially super mutants later on.
Fleetfoot: Around blacks never relax. Stealth characters with melee weapons and stealing. Give him a ripper, and he is a perfect for reconnaissance. He can kill in one or maximum two attacks, and is the strongest in the team. Another guy who can toss a grenade like a pro baseball player.
7. Springfield ( Bonus mission, where we need to rescue mayor Avellone from evil racists who don't want ghouls in their town. Thanks to the Redux mod, we don't have to unlock via editing stuff like in vanilla version. Good mission for the experienced shooters, since there is a lot of space to cover, and we have a huge disadvantage for most of the time due to the size of the enemy forces. There are some high risk points, like western building. On top of it raiders are guarding lots of northern perimeters. The best approach is to divide the squad and attack from two sides simultaneously. Also, the sniper near the last building, where MCA is being held is a very nasty fella. He can kill in one shot and it's good to use someone with stealth.)
8. Mardin ( We start on the desert, which is rather uninteresting considering how easy is to kill animals and beastlords on the surface. The really interesting part, is when we reach the north west perimeters and go underground. We can free a talking deathclaw, who will help us fighting with the beastlord emperor, with some little cute deathclaws as well.)
9. St. Louis (The most painful mission in FT. We are fighting super mutants for the fist time, and they've got big guns, which can end the lives of our soldiers real quickly. APC helps a little, but it takes a lot of patience and time to clean the map and save our boys. For even more pain, you can kill all the super mutants in the north west. The base is really well covered, so in my case Dillon was a deadly bait, which helped to clean the tight entry point. It's really worth it, because of all the heavy weaponry and experience that is found there.)
As for my team:
Rynn: Own character. High INT + PE, finesse, small guns and doctor/first aid with the sniper perks unlocked later on. She kills, she heals, and will use energy weapons later on as well.
Farsight: Phenomenal, when it comes to critical shots and breaking the ongoing fights quickly to my advantage. She can't take make luggage with her, but she is worth every bullet other takes for her
Stitch: Doctor/barter guy. He could be much better, due to the lower PE and not having tagged small guns, but surprisingly he is good with shotguns and many times one hit killed some raiders. After maximizing barter on him I put him on hold before St. Louis.
Dillon: Thanks to helping ghouls earlier, I now have a perfect killing machine. The guy has 12 PE and with adding Better Criticals, Bonus Rate of Fire + More Criticals (3) you just don't want to loose him. Due to the armor restrictions at the beginning, and low health pool, it's really easy to get him killed. After obtaining power armor, he is becoming and essential part of ambushes and advances in the ranks of the brotherhood tremendously. Just like Farsight, he can't take much supplies, so others need to give him some slack. Nobody is perfect.
Billy: Very good warrior. Small guns combined with traps, make him perfect for cleaning up mines and explosives in the safes. Of course selling all the deadly components is a nice bonus. I never used mines during this playthrough. Also, he can take a lot of stuff.
Tarnak: Small guns with outdoorsman. He is tough as hell, has a lot of health and is a great mule as well. He can also throw grenades with a high precision, and through the whole campaign there is a lot of them to find from dead soldiers, and especially super mutants later on.
Fleetfoot: Around blacks never relax. Stealth characters with melee weapons and stealing. Give him a ripper, and he is a perfect for reconnaissance. He can kill in one or maximum two attacks, and is the strongest in the team. Another guy who can toss a grenade like a pro baseball player.
spekkio
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2009
- Messages
- 8,343
^
Yup, Tactics is great. Fuck the haters. Probably the most fun I've had LPing a game. It looks like the Redux mod is a good reason to play it again.
Yup, Tactics is great. Fuck the haters. Probably the most fun I've had LPing a game. It looks like the Redux mod is a good reason to play it again.
catfood
AGAIN
ishowedyoumypenispleaserespond
HansDampf
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2015
- Messages
- 1,547
UE adds some spiders to this fight to make it a bit more interesting. Just a little bit...
I heard many people find this level confusing. But all you have to do is go up. That's it. Just go up. How hard can it be?
The Krall can deploy force fields.
ASMD + amplifier + penetration mod + reduced amplifier drain mod = instagib everything
When games had mirrors.
Heads will roll.
Reworked Queen fight with infinite jump boots.
It makes replaying FT more interesting. What is really great, is that there is also Equilibrium mod, which was made by another modder and it also goes into another direction. It's like a huge patch that needs 1.3 Redux before installing it. So we can replay the game again.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux
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- Sep 25, 2012
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- 29,864
But you can ram things in that'un.
catfood
AGAIN
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