KickStarter Sea of Stars - a retro-inspired turn-based RPG

[Grauken]

Best writing in jrpgs was always in the tactics sub genre. FFT, Tactics ogre, are still top of the class when it comes to story and characters.

Apart from those two, most of the games in the tactics subgenre had just as awful writing as any other generic jRPG

 

[Tweed]

I was interested in this game for about 30 seconds.

 

[Ivan]

I really suck at the poison arrow thing. Does anyone have any tips? I've read it should be done at max height, but I'm not sure.

 

[Jermu]

it sometimes bugs out but max height is what I aimed for and worked well most of time
try start hitting from second or was it third dagger not first one

 

[Vyadhis]

I love jrpgs like Chrono Trigger and Breath of Fire 3, super excited for the Star Ocean 2 remake this year but how does this game hold up? I'm very cynical about indie games that try to emulate a certain nostalgic type of style. Is the game good on its own or is it a cringe fest full of references to the games it copie---I MEAN MAKES HOMAGES TO.

Stay away. Bunch of shills pushing this as a masterpiece.

Intro itself is the most challenging part of the game. Flashback to them as kids, after a short cave scene we find out two of the three kids are the chosen ones.

They do some push ups, sit ups and a few laps. Boring slog dialogue throughout.

Good job kids, now time for you to knit your magic cloth because you are the chosen one. These magic cloths very special. (This is not word for word as I don't remember exactly what was said, but the writing is on the same level with worst grammar.) I struggled so badly to get through this section.

10 more years of this and you two will become solstice warriors. Don't believe the hype, I'm also a huge fan of Bof 3 and Star Ocean 2. I would spend hours crafting items in Star Ocean 2, and the soundtrack was up there with the best of them.

The kings of Snes era (Chrono and Terranigna) are in a completely different league.

This is all I needed to hear. There's too much stuff I want to play this year (some being old releases) and I can't be shitted playing some indie 2d game that rides off the coattails of the greats and is merely "alright". Maybe when it goes on sale on steam for 5-10$ I'll give it a chance.

 

[Jinn]

The setting is fun and had potential, but that potential was wasted by the absolute ass writing. The only thing that has been a slight hook in the narrative for me is the connections to The Messenger. Like, I don't know how the devs could have played through this and thought "yeah, this writing is great!" It's just soulless and lacks any of the charm that its inspirations had. The writing in The Messenger was goofy, but at least it was fun. I've read comments about how everyone loves Garl, but he's just relentlessly positive for basically no reason. One of the most boringly written characters I've ever encountered in a JRPG, followed closely by the two protagonists.

Everything else has been great. Though I'd probably be pretty bored if I wasn't using the difficulty artifacts. The game could have actually been the 9 out of 10 these moronic game journalists gave it if the writing had been gripping in the least. It feels like the writer hated working on this project. As it stands now, it's a solid 7.5/10 for me, carried entirely by the beautiful graphics, awesome soundtrack, exploration, and tight, consistently fun combat(with the double edge and dubious dare artifacts equipped). Fire your writer, Sabotage.

 

[Damned Registrations]

That's unfortunate. Even if it's just some random dude on Kickstarter I don't want a game shoving that in my face, especially because I know they don't do it to try and raise awareness or anything. It's very masturbatory, mostly figuratively but maybe literally too. I've been hearing good things about the game, but I don't want to support stuff like this.

Not much of a loss, though. Can always go back to any RPG on the SNES and call it good. Chrono Trigger, Lufia II, FF6. Just to name a handful.

I'd still heavily recommend Ara Fell if you're looking for a (relatively) modern indie RPG. It's the game that warmed me up to RPGs again after FFXIII. It's from an era before any of this weird political correctness rot flooded into our hobby, and it feels very cozy. My family never had an SNES so I didn't get to play any of those RPGs while I was growing up, but Ara Fell still gave me nostalgia for that age nonetheless. It's maybe not as good as them from a standpoint of pure legacy, but I do really like it.

Will second the Ara Fell recommendation and throw in Crystal Project. The latter is basically devoid of writing, but the gameplay mechanics and exploration are my new gold standard for the genre.

 

[Elthosian]

Best writing in jrpgs was always in the tactics sub genre. FFT, Tactics ogre, are still top of the class when it comes to story and characters.

Apart from those two, most of the games in the tactics subgenre had just as awful writing as any other generic jRPG

Berwick Saga and several of the SNES era Fire Emblem games have amazing writing.

 

[Yuber]

Well the game starts out good but the story is going nowhere really. Nothing exiting happens that keeps me going.
I am now 16h in the game, finished the water tower.
I don't like XP scaling in games and the leveling up in this game feels pointless, no feeling of powerboost.
The battle system got boring and annoying by now, it takes too long for how little you can do.
So in the end I give it a 7/10 or a weak 4/5 because at least it is better than all those other jrpg that came out in the last years except DQ11.

 

[Tavar]

I just started the game and I'm blown away at how beautiful it is. It's incredibly impressive how good great pixel art can look.

 

[Yuber]

Game got worse the longer I played, quality dropped huge after events on the ghost island. Story boring as fuck and characters very shallow.
Battle system gets very boring and annoying.
End rating: max 5/10 or 3/5.

 

[Cat Dude]

I understand this game is not made in Japan but why Souls games which are technically much closer to western style rpg were lumped together as jrpgs? I hope a thread about the upcoming Lords of The Fallen reboot will be in Jrpg board as well.

 

[Abu Antar]

This is not a JRPG, as I said before. Western "JRPGs" never nail the mood of what they want to copy.

 

[Damned Registrations]

This is not a JRPG, as I said before. Western "JRPGs" never nail the mood of what they want to copy.

I think Ara Fell managed it. I find the problem they tend to have is that they bring the conceit that they are going to be the ones to 'fix' the genre. You see that behaviour all over the place, but it seems especially common with jrpgs.

 

[Abu Antar]

I liked Ara Fell, but even that one fell a bit short. But if you're to play any western "JRPG", it's a good shout out.

 

[Grauken]

This is not a JRPG, as I said before. Western "JRPGs" never nail the mood of what they want to copy.

Most people don't make that distinction, for them this is a jRPG

 

[HoboForEternity]

the mechanics never really evolve do they? i just beat the 1st dweller boss and they rarely gained any skill. i like the game so far, but compared to something like chained echoes or rise of the third power the gameplay feels very barebones, even the QTE fights isnt as well thought and fun as the paper mario games, or bug fables.
it's pretty, but aside from that the game doesn't explore anything in depth both narratively and mechanically, which made me a little disappointed.

 

[Jinn]

The combat mechanics evolve in a way, just not in the most apparent way, and probably not enough to be noticable if you aren't using the difficulty artifacts - which it seems almost no one I've talked to does, or is even aware they exist. The evolution of the mechanics is tied more to the enemy variety, enemy combinations, their abilities, and how this can be overcome by different party synergies. Problem is, these subtleties will go completely unnoticed if you're able to rip your way through the enemies on the default difficulty without a second thought. It's sad, because it's really the only thing that can motivate a player to continue playing if pretty graphics and music isn't enough.

It is still absolutely beyond me how anyone can praise any aspect of the narrative, characterization, or writing in general. It's really too bad that the game was reviewed so well, because I think it sends the wrong message about what is acceptable in regards to this. Story and writing are definitely not my main concerns when it comes to gaming, but in something with a structure like this, there needs to be a cohesion of all elements involved in order to make it feel like a solid package, especially when such moronic design decisions about difficulty options are made and so poorly communicated to the player. I'll say it again - and mean it 100% - this game was made to be played with those two difficulty artifacts activated. It literally feels like the game was designed that way by default, but got toned down out of total cowardice and lack of respect for the player.

As a result of this all, I've lost major respect for Sabotage in return. I'll be thinking long and hard before I buy another game from them. And now that their idiotic decisions have been reinforced by reviews and a far too easily mystified player base, they have no incentive to make better decisions in the future.

 

[Yuber]

I read about these hard mode relics before but I never found even one LOL
Quit the game after 20h when I finished the clocktower.
Maybe make these relics available from the start???

 

[HoboForEternity]

The combat mechanics evolve in a way, just not in the most apparent way, and probably not enough to be noticable if you aren't using the difficulty artifacts - which it seems almost no one I've talked to does, or is even aware they exist. The evolution of the mechanics is tied more to the enemy variety, enemy combinations, their abilities, and how this can be overcome by different party synergies. Problem is, these subtleties will go completely unnoticed if you're able to rip your way through the enemies on the default difficulty without a second thought. It's sad, because it's really the only thing that can motivate a player to continue playing if pretty graphics and music isn't enough.

It is still absolutely beyond me how anyone can praise any aspect of the narrative, characterization, or writing in general. It's really too bad that the game was reviewed so well, because I think it sends the wrong message about what is acceptable in regards to this. Story and writing are definitely not my main concerns when it comes to gaming, but in something with a structure like this, there needs to be a cohesion of all elements involved in order to make it feel like a solid package, especially when such moronic design decisions about difficulty options are made and so poorly communicated to the player. I'll say it again - and mean it 100% - this game was made to be played with those two difficulty artifacts activated. It literally feels like the game was designed that way by default, but got toned down out of total cowardice and lack of respect for the player.

As a result of this all, I've lost major respect for Sabotage in return. I'll be thinking long and hard before I buy another game from them. And now that their idiotic decisions have been reinforced by reviews and a far too easily mystified player base, they have no incentive to make better decisions in the future.

Yeah agree. Especially in term of narrative and character progression. Like garl is lovable dude, brimming with positivity that makes any shonen protagonist envious. He has an interesting setup where his situation contrast with the solstice warriors especially during the dweller storyline. The easiest way is for him just to reflect on the events prior to the dweller fight and maybe him to doubt his role in the team. Not turning him depressive or edgy, just makes the character reflect on themselves and grow, but it feels like he shrug off everything too easily. If it is to accentuate his positive attitude, then it just makes me think of him as dense or even stupid.

And the world fails completely to convince that it's alive and inhabitted. Again comparison with other big ish indie jrpg chained echoes and rise of the third power, there are always something to ground them despite all the fantastical element. While you cam critisize alot about moment to moment writing in these games, especially since these teams aren't native english speaker they still managed to build a cohesive world with power dynamics, faction and cosmology that at least support each other.

On the other hand, sea of stars seems to operate purely on rule of cool and visual quirk rather than in world consistency. In a way, it's similar to how bethesda construct their fallout world vs black isle/obsidian.

I really don't hate the game and overall so far it'd give it solid 7/10 because i still think audiovisual part of videogame are still a major part of the craft and they admittedly did well. It's also the level/dungeon design that are way more varied in term of method of traversal, verticality and the little puzzle. For indie rpg, crosscode is still the king of dungeon and map design, but sea of stars did a decent job.

It doesn't make me wary toward sabotage studio as you are, but i hope the success of the game doesn't let them inflate their ego and made them blind to the valid critic of the game.

As for why, i read a feally solid take on indie game marketing and why writing is often ignored.

If you hire bad artist, your game will look like crap
If you hire bad programmer your game will run like crap.

These 2 factors that consumer will notice first. However most people won't notice the flaws in overall writing and dialogue until much later in the game, and they will be barely noticeable in the promotion material. I assume there's no malice intended just developer with limited resources making priorities, even if you see it as misleading.

What i hope from the studio is just genuinely listen to players feedback and constructive criticism.

 

[normie]

I read about these hard mode relics before but I never found even one LOL
Quit the game after 20h when I finished the clocktower.
Maybe make these relics available from the start???

the relics were in the early town where you meet with the pirates, a secret shop under the pier - I bought them but quit soon after meeting pirate Lizzo making fun of jrpgs
I could've taken the contempt if it was served to me by some other character
I srsly doubt they make that much of difference, sounds like a way to increase tedium

 

[Jinn]

I srsly doubt they make that much of difference, sounds like a way to increase tedium

I wouldn't be so adamant about bringing them up if they made little difference. It turns boring "hit A to win combat" into something tactical and that requires you to actually take advantage of the timed button hits. It turns most regular encounters into fights that can wipe your party if you're not paying attention. Double Edge in particular is what forces the player to consider every move carefully, because it makes breaking enemy casting periods incredibly important. They're what make the game an actual game, and where you see Sabotage's gameplay strengths truly come through. It turns the combat into something that reminds me about what I loved about The Messenger.

 

[Phinx]

The combat mechanics evolve in a way, just not in the most apparent way, and probably not enough to be noticable if you aren't using the difficulty artifacts - which it seems almost no one I've talked to does, or is even aware they exist. The evolution of the mechanics is tied more to the enemy variety, enemy combinations, their abilities, and how this can be overcome by different party synergies. Problem is, these subtleties will go completely unnoticed if you're able to rip your way through the enemies on the default difficulty without a second thought. It's sad, because it's really the only thing that can motivate a player to continue playing if pretty graphics and music isn't enough.

It is still absolutely beyond me how anyone can praise any aspect of the narrative, characterization, or writing in general. It's really too bad that the game was reviewed so well, because I think it sends the wrong message about what is acceptable in regards to this. Story and writing are definitely not my main concerns when it comes to gaming, but in something with a structure like this, there needs to be a cohesion of all elements involved in order to make it feel like a solid package, especially when such moronic design decisions about difficulty options are made and so poorly communicated to the player. I'll say it again - and mean it 100% - this game was made to be played with those two difficulty artifacts activated. It literally feels like the game was designed that way by default, but got toned down out of total cowardice and lack of respect for the player.

As a result of this all, I've lost major respect for Sabotage in return. I'll be thinking long and hard before I buy another game from them. And now that their idiotic decisions have been reinforced by reviews and a far too easily mystified player base, they have no incentive to make better decisions in the future.

Yeah agree. Especially in term of narrative and character progression. Like garl is lovable dude, brimming with positivity that makes any shonen protagonist envious. He has an interesting setup where his situation contrast with the solstice warriors especially during the dweller storyline. The easiest way is for him just to reflect on the events prior to the dweller fight and maybe him to doubt his role in the team. Not turning him depressive or edgy, just makes the character reflect on themselves and grow, but it feels like he shrug off everything too easily. If it is to accentuate his positive attitude, then it just makes me think of him as dense or even stupid.

And the world fails completely to convince that it's alive and inhabitted. Again comparison with other big ish indie jrpg chained echoes and rise of the third power, there are always something to ground them despite all the fantastical element. While you cam critisize alot about moment to moment writing in these games, especially since these teams aren't native english speaker they still managed to build a cohesive world with power dynamics, faction and cosmology that at least support each other.

On the other hand, sea of stars seems to operate purely on rule of cool and visual quirk rather than in world consistency. In a way, it's similar to how bethesda construct their fallout world vs black isle/obsidian.

I really don't hate the game and overall so far it'd give it solid 7/10 because i still think audiovisual part of videogame are still a major part of the craft and they admittedly did well. It's also the level/dungeon design that are way more varied in term of method of traversal, verticality and the little puzzle. For indie rpg, crosscode is still the king of dungeon and map design, but sea of stars did a decent job.

It doesn't make me wary toward sabotage studio as you are, but i hope the success of the game doesn't let them inflate their ego and made them blind to the valid critic of the game.

As for why, i read a feally solid take on indie game marketing and why writing is often ignored.

If you hire bad artist, your game will look like crap
If you hire bad programmer your game will run like crap.

These 2 factors that consumer will notice first. However most people won't notice the flaws in overall writing and dialogue until much later in the game, and they will be barely noticeable in the promotion material. I assume there's no malice intended just developer with limited resources making priorities, even if you see it as misleading.

What i hope from the studio is just genuinely listen to players feedback and constructive criticism.

It isnt the budget that led to the writing issues.

The writer is an ex-developer and current CEO of the company that made SOS. Who has always dreamt of writing grandiose stories and thus made the leap.

To make matters worst, he is getting his own employees to look over his writing to give their opinion, instead of a proper editor.

How many employees are willing to tell their boss the hard truth about his dream?

Nothing wrong with chasing after your dream. But writing is one of those things. People either have the talent for it, or they don't. Short games like Messenger is fine for his writing capabilities, an RPG is a step too far.

 

[Jinn]

It isnt the budget that led to the writing issues.

The writer is an ex-developer and current CEO of the company that made SOS. Who has always dreamt of writing grandiose stories and thus made the leap.

To make matters worst, he is getting his own employees to look over his writing to give their opinion, instead of a proper editor.

How many employees are willing to tell their boss the hard truth about his dream?

Nothing wrong with chasing after your dream. But writing is one of those things. People either have the talent for it, or they don't. Short games like Messenger is fine for his writing capabilities, an RPG is a step too far.

Right you are. I didn't realize the CEO was the writer of both The Messenger and Sea of Stars. Like I said in a prior post, the writing in The Messenger was silly, but at least it was fun and a merit to the cohesion of the experience. The exact opposite of what it is in Sea of Stars.

I believe your suspicions about nepotism and critique are correct here, but I'm still disappointed in Thierry Boulanger for not seeing his own lack of ability here. Again, I hope that the reviews and the morons who are enchanted by the graphics and music don't give him the mistaken idea that he did a good job here. If you're going to write bland protagonists and party members, at least write fun, engaging NPCs. There was none of that to be found anywhere, and it greatly detracted from the atmosphere and my total enjoyment of the game. And like I said before, it squandered what could have otherwise been a fantastic setting for an RPG of this sort.

 

[Yuber]

And the world fails completely to convince that it's alive and inhabitted.

Yeah the game world felt weird.

I don't feel like the game world is a real world with people actually living there. When I travel through the world like in FF7 or Skies of Arcadia I actually feel like this is a real world with people having things going on.
SoS had maybe 3 towns and a few random islands.