Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[Silva]

Father is down.

I advanced the main story and came back to him just before Water Dragon. By then my increased attack power and vitality made the fight more manageable and he went down in 2nd attempt.

I agree it's best fight in the game. As interesting as Isshin but less obnoxious.

 

[Alphard]

i think the most fun boss is True Monk. the pacing of the fight is neither too slow or too fast and you can enjoy the dance

 

[cvv]

i think the most fun boss is True Monk.

Same here. Father and Isshin appeal to hardcore gaymers bc they're the most difficult but for me True Monk and the Kang Kong were way more entertaining.

 

[Black Angel]

I love each and every main bosses for different reasons. Divine Dragon is, to me, the best gimmicky boss they've ever conceived up to date, though I haven't played Demon's Souls so I wouldn't know how DD would measure up against DeS bosses. Sad that most mini bosses are just variants of the firsts you encountered, with the exception of Armored Warrior.

the Kang Kong

Which one? The Guardian, or the Headless? I think the latter is much easier, and the Loaded Spear pathetically trivialize the fight. Right before Ashina Depths, his mate on 2nd phase can give some semblance of challenge but nowhere near the degree of Pikachu&Snorlax, but if you spam firecrackers augmented with double damage sugar you could take off his mate before the fight even resume.

But yeah, still pretty fun to fight.

 

[cvv]

Which one? The Guardian, or the Headless? I think the latter is much easier, and the Loaded Spear pathetically trivialize the fight.

Yeah I guess it can be called a gimmicky fight - once you crack it you always get it right. I spend close to two hours on the Headless fight first time around but then it clicked and I breezed it. Smashed the double monkeys first try afterwards. On my second run I completely steamrolled both fights. Contrary to, say, Isshin who took me 6 hours in my first run and 4 hours in my 2nd one.

 

[Silva]

Divine Dragon is, to me, the best gimmicky boss they've ever conceived up to date,

Divine Dragon is cool yeah. But best gimmick fight for me goes to the Folding Screen Monkeys. One of the most creative "fights" From ever did. And the place is beautiful too, in a contemplative way.

My top 3 bosses would be something like..

1. Father Owl. The right balance between toughness and pleasure. One of the best From bosses. But as cvv says, it's on the Sister Freide gang so it won't please everyone.

2. Guardian Ape. The WTF moment when it rises with the head in hand is great. The atmosphere is eerie as fuck, while also having funny bits like the venomous fart. And it accepts a variety of prosthetic tools. Purest fun fight I had in the game.

3. Lady Butterfly. Once you git gud she kinda loses the appeal but when you're learning it she's awesome. The place feels epic and the fact she's not oversized like most bosses gives her a normalcy I like, making her look like a badass grandma. The Papa Gascoigne of Sekiro.

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50. Demon of Hate. Worst fight in game. HP sponge + big flailing mass of hit box = Bloodborne, not Sekiro. You're in the wrong game, bro.

i think the most fun boss is True Monk

Funny thing I don't like True/Corrupted Monk much. I find the spin-spin-spin thing repetitive and boring. Like a Guitar Hero track that only uses 2 buttons. But maybe I wasn't in the right mood for her. I cheesed both fights, the illusion with snap seeds and the true with firecrackers.

 

[Silva]

 

[Black Angel]

50. Demon of Hate. Worst fight in game. HP sponge + big flailing mass of hit box = Bloodborne, not Sekiro. You're in the wrong game, bro.

Indeed. I can't comprehend why they even think of putting THAT in the game. Nowadays I just use glitch to kill him if I want the memory, and at the very least shake off a bit of rust by battling the Interior Ministry's soldiers. Otherwise I just ignore him.

Funny thing I don't like True/Corrupted Monk much. I find the spin-spin-spin thing repetitive and boring. Like a Guitar Hero track that only uses 2 buttons. But maybe I wasn't in the right mood for her. I cheesed both fights, the illusion with snap seeds and the true with firecrackers.

Iirc she only do the spin2win move as Corrupted, and only during her 3rd phase as True. I have to say discovering the trick to instakill her on her 2nd phase on my own was some of the best experience I've ever had.

 

[Sentinel]

 

[NJClaw]

I actually like the demon. It's a very different boss from what you fought up to that moment and it surely isn't easy, but it's just a matter of adapting to his moves. Like many other Bloodborne bosses, you can just follow Beyoncé's guide (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCjrpghCYc): if you stick to the left leg, you can keep attacking him with very few interruptions. You can also skip an entire phase using a fully upgraded Finger Whistle.

 

[Black Angel]

I actually like the demon. It's a very different boss from what you fought up to that moment and it surely isn't easy, but it's just a matter of adapting to his moves. Like many other Bloodborne bosses, you can just follow Beyoncé's guide (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCjrpghCYc): if you stick to the left leg, you can keep attacking him with very few interruptions. You can also skip an entire phase using a fully upgraded Finger Whistle.

I still think it's not worth it. The boss is way out of the spectrum with the rest of the game. The posture bar doesn't even matter anymore, you aim for his vitality or you go home.

In contrast, Lady Butterfly is a well-made change of pace. Up until that point, the game's trying to teach you to focus on parrying attacks and filling your enemy's posture bar, regardless of their vitality. Then came Lady B with high posture regen, and the game shifted gear by telling you to lower her vitality to half *before* focusing on filling her posture bar. She demanded a different approach than other enemies, but still well within the spectrum of the gameplay flow.

I wouldn't really mind if Demon of Hatred only has 2 red dot and/or lower HP if we aren't going to fill his posture bar, but 3(!) red dot *AND* HP sponge? Nuh uh.

 

[NJClaw]

Sure, it "breaks the rules" by making the posture-kill nearly impossible if you don't fight him how he wants to be fought, but that's coherent with the fact that he isn't a puny samurai or ninja fighting you with a mere sword. There are other enemies you don't kill through posture in the game (the Blazing Bull and Shichimen Warrior, for example), so that's not an isolated case.

The fight really isn't that long (if you know what you are doing), because his windows of opportunity are extremely lenient: if you stick to his legs, you can throw in 3 to 4 hits (even more when you stun him and a stun is guaranteed after a certain number of hits). Moreover, if you adopt an aggressive playstyle and stick to him for the entire fight, you can easily posture-kill him in the first two phases, because you can block all of his attacks and his posture regenerates slowly even when at 3/4 of his full health. Here:

Spoiler

this guy does it without using R1 so it takes forever, but if you throw in 3-4 R1 between his attacks, you can get to a full posture bar in no time. The posture bar doesn't matter only if you dodge his attacks instead of blocking them, but that's true for every boss fight in this game. During the last phase it's a bit more complicated, but, again, you can skip the entire phase using the Finger Whistle (and I think the game almost expects you to do it, since everything the Sculptor says points to that fight and that finger)... so, in a sense, the Demon really only has 2 dots, because the last one is just a gimmicky fight where you have to use the tool at the right time. Sure, you can fight him without using it, but then you are voluntarily handicapping yourself in an already completely optional fight.

 

[Melmoth]

Demon of Hatred is a fight about learning to use the fire resist umbrella instead of the terror resist one like you did through the rest of the game and that's it.

The reason Demon of Hatred isn't a Bloodborne boss is because he doesn't go down in two swings. The other reason is that you have to learn enough of his moveset to know when to use the umbrella and when to not. Bloodborne bosses die before you learn their moveset or hear their cool orchestral theme. sorry but there it is.

Father Owl is the best boss in the game. Much better than Issin Sword Saint, imo.

Isshin does some cool stuff that Owl doesn't - specifically he counters Mist Raven during 1st and 2nd phases. I was blown away when I saw that shit. Mist Raven is still effective against him, but it has to be used more deliberately - only when he performs a move that has him remain in place by the end as i remember. The fire upgraded mist raven can be particularly good for third and fourth phases and that was how I beat him, saving emblems for that. Mist raven can be great for clutch reversal in late game boss fights, but the drawback is that you trade getting one hit in vs two or three for performing the right counter. Isshin is a more 'intelligent' boss than some of FROM's other bosses and the skillset you need builds off what you developed for the Owl fight. like Fume Knight I think was just grueling, i have no positive memories of that after five years or whatever its beenn. But yeah i agree father owl is p great and rewarding encounter.

 

[Black Angel]

Sure, it "breaks the rules" by making the posture-kill nearly impossible if you don't fight him how he wants to be fought, but that's coherent with the fact that he isn't a puny samurai or ninja fighting you with a mere sword. There are other enemies you don't kill through posture in the game (the Blazing Bull and Shichimen Warrior, for example), so that's not an isolated case.

Blazing Bull can still be killed through posture because you can reliably parry him. Meanwhile, Shichimen Warrior can be taken out in an instant with anti-air deathblow. Both don't last awfully long, especially the Bull only having one red dot. The thing about Demon of Hatred is that he occupies half of the screen most of the time, making it much more difficult to properly watch out for his moves. Once again I wouldn't mind if he only has 2 red dot and/or lower HP. That way deflecting his fire-based attacks with the Fire Umbrella would actually be viable in the long run, but the way he is now you'll just run out of emblems, especially if you want to 'skip' his last phase with the finger.

I can't comprehend why he keep using kicks to prevent his posture from regenerating, but that's no surprise since he wasted his emblems on the earlier axe attacks. But yeah, it's a smart move to quickly fill up the posture with the axe. I can see quickly filling up the bar, like you said, by chiming in some R1 in-between deflecting non fire-based attacks and *properly* connecting the axe attacks. From was generous to make DoH stagger few times through a phase as you take out his vitality, but it's still not enough to me.

 

[NJClaw]

[...], but it's still not enough to me.

And you aren't alone, I've heard many complaints about this boss and I can understand where they stem from. Probably From knows this too, since they made it a completely optional fight at the very end of the game. To me, the Demon is still behind Isshin in terms of difficulty. During my third playthrough I managed to take down this red fucker without dying, but the old guy still required multiple retries.

 

[toro]

50. Demon of Hate. Worst fight in game. HP sponge + big flailing mass of hit box = Bloodborne, not Sekiro. You're in the wrong game, bro.

Please make up your mind. It's a great Bloodborne boss or not?

 

[Frusciante]

So is this game worth 60 euros? Where does it rank in the souls series?

 

[NJClaw]

So is this game worth 60 euros? Where does it rank in the souls series?

It is, but if you waited this long you can wait a bit more for a discounted sale.

It's a very different game from the other Souls (but it still has the traditional "does not open from this side" prompt, so it definitely IS a Souls game) and subjective ratings will vary from one person to another (it mainly depends on what is fun to you in these games). However, since it won that "game of the year" award, you can at least be sure that the production value is as good as it gets. In my personal list, it takes the third spot just under Bloodborne and above Dark Souls 3.

 

[Silva]

Please make up your mind. It's a great Bloodborne boss or not?

Demon Sponge of Hate is on par with the bad BB bosses IMO. Like a more spongey Amygdala. Any good BB boss rekts DoH fun-wise it's not even a contest. Black Angel is spot-on: it would be okay (not great, okay) if had 2 red balls, but 3 balls? It's a drag of a fight. I'm paying money to die of boredom here.

So is this game worth 60 euros? Where does it rank in the souls series?

It's on the BB side of the fence but much more focused and with tighter combat. So if you like BB, chances are you'll like Sekiro. If you're a fan of the fine balance of lore-atmosphere-systems-levels FROM likes to pull out then you'll find it a more cohesive experience than DS2 and DS3 too.

But if you value muh buildz & PvPz like a retardo you'll probably hate it. Go play Nioh instead.

 

[Silva]

Funny thing, I've found Demon of Hatred and other late game opponents much more manageable this new playthrough and I suspect it has to do with the two extra bosses I've killed that are exclusive to Purification path. These probably drop extra memories or praying beads.

I wonder if this should have been the default, intended power level for late game. It would make things much less frustrating for first timers. Specially Demon and Isshin.

 

[Tancred]

DoH and Sword Saint Isshin are down

DoH was a little difficult mainly due to 3 life bars. I also didn't use the malcontent trick I read about, went for a no deflect approach and kept running around behind him. His charge was still dangerous so I had to be careful and watch out for it. Once I started using the fire umbrella to guard against his fire orbs and big fire beam? attack that he sometimes uses after his charge, he went down without too much trouble. I did not really find this fight to be all that fun and I beat him more so I could say I did it than any other reason.

Isshin was actually kind of anticlimactic, despite being a good fight - I was just expecting him to be on the level of Owl (Father) who rekt me 20+ times.

I did two throwaway runs against Isshin a couple nights ago which didn't get past his first stage, and then last night beat him in 4 attempts. Once I got past his first stage (and not fucking up on Genichiro's stage) then I found his second and third stages quite easy. He used the spear thrust against me a lot and I Mikiri countered every one of them, which seems to do massive posture damage to him. Once his third stage, which I'd never seen before, came out I simply reversed all the lightning and he kept using spear thrust so I just kept countering it and down he went.

Got the Dragon Return ending but I wonder what happened to Emma. Does she just stay and wait to be killed in the castle next to old Isshin's body?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Good job.

 

[Silva]

Got the Dragon Return ending but I wonder what happened to Emma. Does she just stay and wait to be killed in the castle next to old Isshin's body?

Return ending is the most nonsensic. I prefer Severance or Purification myself. And Emma probably becomes waifu of new lord of Ashina.

Spoiler

By the way, anyone went back to Soulsborne after beating Sekiro? How it feels? I'm considering trying a new BB run or the DS2 DLC (which I never finished) but I'm afraid I'll find it much weaker after Sekiro.

 

[Sentinel]

Personally I can't stomach any souls game after playing Sekiro. Even BB is dull as fuck now.

 

[Adon]

I went back to Dark Souls 2 after playing Sekiro. Still had a grand old time. Recently started up Dark Souls 3, too and been enjoying as much as the last time I went through it. Once you go through Bloodborne, going back to the older games has always been easier in comparison so it's not too surprising that I've been breezing through the game.

On the other hand, I haven't had an ounce of desire to go back to Sekiro.