Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[Multidirectional]

It's not exactly rage, per se, it's more like.... whatever the phrase is for the feeling of "meh, this is not worth it".

Yeah, exactly what I thought too. Then after my first run was completed I immediately started another fresh run to see how much I improved. And that's when I started really loving it. There are some annoying fights, but if you cannot enjoy Genichiro then it might not be for you as he's easily one of best bosses. And yes, the game is not an action RPG so it's not gonna have much play style variety, it's more about perfecting your handling of few options that you do have. If you don't enjoy the play style game demands of you I'm afraid there isn't much for you there then.
I'm going through Dark Souls III now and while it does offer more play style choices its combat also feels like clunky shit compared to Sekiro now.

 

[abija]

Right now it feels more like work than entertainment, given that there's pretty much only one correct way to play and not a particularly fun way either.

I watched some twitch/youtube after my blind playthrough and as I suspected definitely plenty of ways to approach the fights. Probably not the case for no charm + bell, but I think that's fine.

 

[Multidirectional]

also don't forget majority of the difficulty in souls like are mental. you see this boss with menacing figure, and you kinda get discouraged. when you get past the initial scare, you will see them more mechanically and their pattern will become clearer.

Yeah, From sure likes to do that. Troll players by making enemy or his attacks look way more intimidating than they actually are and then once they stop pissing their pants the fight turns out be much easier than it looked.

 

[Hassar]

It's not exactly rage, per se, it's more like.... whatever the phrase is for the feeling of "meh, this is not worth it"...Maybe I'll heal the burnout in a day or two, but right now, absolutely nothing is compelling me to get back to it.

That’s pretty much where I ended up. I understood the mechanics but I never enjoyed them, so beating bosses felt like a trudge to the end for me. I uninstalled and traded it in after thinking about going through all of that again just for bragging rights.

I keep seeing people brag about getting platinum on this game, but I honestly think some of them don’t realize that it is not much of an achievement - the achievements themselves are unlocked by just going through the game on multiple playthroughs and you don’t see many achievements connected to technical execution or anything skill based that I recall.

I think From should take a look at “Horizon Zero Dawn” as a case study in creating an integrated story and gameplay world. Right now, their design philosophy is very modular and single focused.

 

[cruel]

I'm like 30h in now, currently getting pissed at second phase of Guardian Ape, but feels like I will manage somehow Phase 1 becomes surprisingly easy when you realize that you can just constantly run (no stamina), so even dodging is not required.

Still - the game feels like it was done by two different teams: like most of the game done by the team who did Dark Souls 2, and some of the bosses - Lady Butterfly, Genichiro (both amazing fights) - done by guys who did original Dark Souls. I don't remember a game which game me such mixed feelings like this.

Three biggest cons for me:
- exploration: while they clearly put work to hide some stuff, I'm not that excited to find another Mibu baloon of wealth or something. It's much less magical if you cannot find any weapon / armor / rings etc
- repetitive combat
- not that memorable (other than absolutely brilliant fights, previously mentioned Lady Butterfly and Genichiro)


Still, better than most games probably.

 

[mogwaimon]

I think that people are spot-on when they're talking about the game not being memorable. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a fun game but I'm, what, at the halfway point right now? and I still don't feel any of the magic that I felt going through Dark Souls. It's a technically good, even great, game, but it simply lacks the charm of DS. Perhaps it's because areas tend to lack their own character? Perhaps it's because there's an actual goal at the beginning unlike DS, where you're basically just dropped in and don't really have a clear objective until you get the Lordvessel halfway through the game? I don't know. I mean, I keep coming back to it but I'm not spending hours at a time just going through like Souls and it just hasn't hooked me mentally yet.

Though it does feel damn good when you beat a boss that you've been stuck on for an hour or two. They got that much right at least. I've gone from having trouble fighting even a single mook to beating Genichiro and Lady Butterfly among others in the span of a day, so...

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Stuck on Genichiro.

Got to Genichiro, got my ass beat a couple times, felt more overwhelmed than against Lady Butterfly, nope'd the fuck outta the game. I don't think I'll continue playing for the next day or two at least. Right now it feels more like work than entertainment, given that there's pretty much only one correct way to play and not a particularly fun way either.

I like the game, and will continue, but I agree that unlike Souls, the game does not allow for much creativity when it comes to bosses. With someone like Genichiro, prosthetics don't really work and your skills are still pretty limited at this point in the game, so there really is just one way to beat him: learning the parry mechanics, memorizing his move-set, then trying not to fuck up for 5 minutes straight. The joy of Souls is the endless variety in play styles. If you got stuck, there were always multiple avenues to take to the same goal. Sekiro does offer for some limited variety in terms of stealth and gadgets, but the bosses all pretty much enforce one playstyle. I'm already getting tired of the game on my first playthrough, so I don't imagine I'll replay it 8+ times like I did Dark Souls.

 

[cruel]

For people stuck on Genichiro, few tips:
- first part of first phase (first health point): red sign is always an opportunity for Mikiri
- second part of first phase (second health point): red sign is an opportunity for jump
- don't hit him like a maniac; hit once, he will almost always instantly attach, deflect and punish
- keep close, don't let his posture regenerate

Proper handling of red signs (however they are called) is enough to be in a good shape for phase 2.

 

[Multidirectional]

Yeah, that jump attack followed by perilous attack is easy to parry so don't start dodging like a faggot when he does it.

 

[Parabalus]

I'm like 30h in now, currently getting pissed at second phase of Guardian Ape, but feels like I will manage somehow Phase 1 becomes surprisingly easy when you realize that you can just constantly run (no stamina), so even dodging is not required.

.

You can beat p2 by just running and attacking only when he does overhead slam+ dive sweep (both non perilous). Takes longer than deflecting but is safer.

also don't forget majority of the difficulty in souls like are mental. you see this boss with menacing figure, and you kinda get discouraged. when you get past the initial scare, you will see them more mechanically and their pattern will become clearer.

Yeah, From sure likes to do that. Troll players by making enemy or his attacks look way more intimidating than they actually are and then once they stop pissing their pants the fight turns out be much easier than it looked.

I had trouble with Gyoubo because of that. He charges at you and swings a spear thrice your size, took me a while to just deflect instead of instinctively dodging.

 

[Multidirectional]

I had trouble with Gyoubo because of that. He charges at you and swings a spear thrice your size, took me a while to just deflect instead of instinctively dodging.

I had this with the bull. First I saw it I was like "wtf is this how do i fight THAT??". Then once I found out I can just parry his charge he became one of easiest mini-bosses in the game.

 

[typical user]

My tips for Genichiro:
1. Delay your R1 spam, if you mash the button he will interrupt you and land a hit between yours. If you delay it then you will have enough time to prepare for perilous attacks or you will interrupt him shooting his bow or other, slower attacks sometimes even jump attacks. You will also build his poise bar if he blocks your attacks.
2. If he jumps to overhead slash in first two phases dodge on the side. Sometimes you can interrupt his perilous attack otherwise you can jump followed by a kick or Mikiri counter his thrust attack. There is enough time after dodge to jump if he is going for the sweep.
3. If you see him do perilous attack and aren't sure then just dodge away, usually you will have plenty of space but these are his main openings, his first stages are about building poise bar not chipping health bar.
4. If he runs up to you and you see red perilous sign - back away, he is trying to grab you. Afterwards there is small window for one or two fast attacks.
5. In third phase he will do lightning strikes after jumping - dodge on the side as usual, if you see him staying in air for longer then prepare to jump and before you land do aerial R1 - no need to block - lighting reversal allows you to finish his last stage in one minute or so, inflicts huge damage and poise build-up.
6. Sometimes he will do two slashes and make a small pause - if you are confident then try to deflect incoming 5-hit spam otherwise just jump back. This attack will build your poise quickly but mostly serves to catch a breath once you learn to identify it.
7. If you try to heal he will shoot his bow, just wait and dodge on the side. If he is close he will follow up with a slash which you can just block.
8. At last phase he will actually do thrust attack, so dodge forward to Mikiri counter him. Isshin Ashina and Great Shinobi Owl also do this. So always try to gain enough distance before taking the sip.
9. Remember to hold block to lower your own poise. I know it's basic tip but this fight is a test on your own poise management. He has combos, so if he staggers you - you will get hit hard with follow up attack.

He is something like Champion Gundyr - you need to be responsive for Genichiro actions, if you need to heal then you need to know when because he will try to punish you for that. Same goes for most of the enemies later in the game, after Genichiro you should be prepared for other boss fights and be able to identify opportunities to damage them.

 

[Lambach]

I actually did beat Genichiro, the miserable cunt, just because I refuse to cede defeat to a bunch of goddamn pixels.

The progress afterwards has been slow. This is definitively not as engaging as Dark Souls, but it's OK for what it is. I've went through Mt. Kongo and secured Mortal Blade, but I'm getting raped by Shichimen Warrior now. Should I even bother with him? Is Ceremonial Tanto worth it?

 

[Multidirectional]

The progress afterwards has been slow. This is definitively not as engaging as Dark Souls, but it's OK for what it is. I've went through Mt. Kongo and secured Mortal Blade, but I'm getting raped by Shichimen Warrior now. Should I even bother with him? Is Ceremonial Tanto worth it?

It gives +5 Spirit Emblems for a price of more or less one gourd flask. Up to you to decide how badly you want that. I almost never used it myself. But then I didn't use many things. For example I never used a single one of them Jizzing Statues either in both my playthroughs, because I kept forgetting about them.

 

[mogwaimon]

I actually did beat Genichiro, the miserable cunt, just because I refuse to cede defeat to a bunch of goddamn pixels.

The progress afterwards has been slow. This is definitively not as engaging as Dark Souls, but it's OK for what it is. I've went through Mt. Kongo and secured Mortal Blade, but I'm getting raped by Shichimen Warrior now. Should I even bother with him? Is Ceremonial Tanto worth it?

Shichimen Warrior is easy once you get Anti-Air Deathblow. The merchant that sells it is way back in Ashina Castle, though he does later show up at Mt. Kongo. Once you get that, you just need Divine Confetti to be able to deathblow him, bait him into jumping and attack. Do that twice and it's your win.

Personally, I've gotten much further than Genichiro now. I just beat Great Shinobi Owl (complete pain in the ass) and now I'm trying to deal with True Corrupted Monk. I know I beat her before but fighting her again so soon after Owl and getting beaten on the third lifebar got me frustrated and now I'm chilling for a bit. I know what I need to do, I just need peace of mind to put it all together.

 

[MapMan]

Miyazaki...

 

[toro]

It's not exactly rage, per se, it's more like.... whatever the phrase is for the feeling of "meh, this is not worth it"...Maybe I'll heal the burnout in a day or two, but right now, absolutely nothing is compelling me to get back to it.

That’s pretty much where I ended up. I understood the mechanics but I never enjoyed them, so beating bosses felt like a trudge to the end for me. I uninstalled and traded it in after thinking about going through all of that again just for bragging rights.

Because you did not play the game the right way. I know, I uninstalled the game 3 times and then I've come back and finished it on hard mode.

The thing is: you have to parry in this game. It's limiting as fuck but that's the gist of the combat. Either you learn to parry and start to appreciate the combat or you rage quit. Don't ask me why is like this cause only Miyazaki can explain it.

I keep seeing people brag about getting platinum on this game, but I honestly think some of them don’t realize that it is not much of an achievement - the achievements themselves are unlocked by just going through the game on multiple playthroughs and you don’t see many achievements connected to technical execution or anything skill based that I recall.

I agree. Platinum in Sekiro is pointless.

Fan fact: Most people are farming the Ashina Outskirts before the Demon of Hatred.

I think From should take a look at “Horizon Zero Dawn” as a case study in creating an integrated story and gameplay world. Right now, their design philosophy is very modular and single focused.

Horizon Zero Dawn does some interesting things with its narrative but let's not exaggerate.

The ending of HZD is so fucking retarded that it doesn't matter whatever came before and - for me - it killed any interest in the sequel. Sekiro's narrative is way better than that.

 

[Lambach]

I've come to the realization that this is essentially Wasted Potential - The Game. I got to that mini-boss, the Snake Eyes something, the one with the poison lake area and after beating the encounter thought to myself: "Holy shit, this is what the game should've been about!"

I've stealth'd my way into backstabbing one of the dudes on the ledges and used the Ninjitsu to possess him and as he was taking potshots against Snake Eyes and draining her health, I was swinging from one ledge to the other with the grappling hook, using the Umbrella-thingy Prosthetic to block an occasional shot if it came my way, then I reached the next minion and used Divine Abduction to stab him in the back and posses him as well, quickly made my way towards the final minion and just chopped him up. During all of this, Snake Eyes had already taken enough damage from the two possessed minions that all I had to do was swoop down and hit her once to enable the Deathblow. As she was recovering, I threw Oil on her and set her on fire with the upgraded Flame Vent, then went crazy on her ass until she dropped close to just half of the second health bar. Draining it to the end was piss-easy and satisfying in a 1v1 fight that ensued.

tl;dr - The game has so many cool gadgets and abilities that, when the situation allows for it, can be used and synergized in really fun, creative ways. Too bad the game does not allow for it roughly 70% of the time and during that time they're essentially worthless, as most gameplay consists simply of Clang-Clang-Clanging from one boss to the next.

 

[mogwaimon]

if you think that's bad just wait until you get to the last boss. I mean goddamn, I've only been able to make it to phase 3 once. I've hit the same wall many of you did where you can 0-hit the very first phase most of the time and get the real bosses first phase down fairly consistently without using more than one gourd, but then phase 2 hits, he pulls out the spear, and then I can't seem to grok his moves. Nasty boss.

 

[retinoid]

My thoughts on the game so far (only up to the Gorilla boss):

• Posture is a great mechanic that adds much needed depth to the simplistic combat from the earlier Souls games. I went back to DS1 a few days ago after playing Sekiro non stop for a couple of days and it honestly just feels archaic and plain old boring. Being able switch your priorities from a HP based victory to a posture based victory doesn't seem like much on paper, but in practice it works to vary the combat enough to warrant praise. Which brings me on to my nexr point.
• The lack of weapon/armor variety hurts. I know this is obvious and has been mentioned before but it's 100% true. One could argue this is a strength of the game as you're no longer relying on crutch gear or over-statting your character to win fights, and while I can certainly understand this point of view, the long-term replayability of games like this is honestly a core feature, in my book. I'm not saying the game needs to have ridiculous variety like DS2, but even something like Bloodborrne level weapon variety would have been welcomed, with maybe a bit of refinement to make each one a tad more unique. Look at what Nioh did, for all the faults that game has, it struck the PERFECT balance between depth of combat and weapon variety; 5 or 6 weapons, each with their own distinct feel, style and usefulness. Yes I know Nioh is a stat heavy game but, From Soft could have at least looked at the skill system in that game and done something similar for Sekiro. Ditch the prosthetic arts (which are mostly useless), and have maybe or 4 or 5 distinct weapons with a robust skill tree to flesh out the variety.
• Bosses are mostly good, but some suffer from an annoying trend that began to plague From Soft games starting with Bloodborne: infinite stamina combos which never fucking end. This fucking gorilla boss I'm fighting now has this exact problem and while I know I can just sprint away while he is doing it, here's the thing...it isn't fun to play against. Why waste budget/animation time creating such a boring attack when you could create a move that looks unique and catches the attention of the player in a constructive way? (As opposed to "oh look he's flailing around again, guess I'll just go downstairs and get a snack until he's finished.")
• Exploration is fun, mainly for finding new areas but is negatively affected by the lack of meaningful loot. No more elation from finding a super OP weapon or armor piece from an obscure crack in a wall.

All in all, it's a fantastic game. But against my better judgement I keep on comparing it to Souls even though I know I should not.

 

[Hassar]

My thoughts on the game so far (only up to the Gorilla boss):

• Posture is a great mechanic that adds much needed depth to the simplistic combat from the earlier Souls games. I went back to DS1 a few days ago after playing Sekiro non stop for a couple of days and it honestly just feels archaic and plain old boring. Being able switch your priorities from a HP based victory to a posture based victory doesn't seem like much on paper, but in practice it works to vary the combat enough to warrant praise. Which brings me on to my nexr point.
• The lack of weapon/armor variety hurts. I know this is obvious and has been mentioned before but it's 100% true. One could argue this is a strength of the game as you're no longer relying on crutch gear or over-statting your character to win fights, and while I can certainly understand this point of view, the long-term replayability of games like this is honestly a core feature, in my book. I'm not saying the game needs to have ridiculous variety like DS2, but even something like Bloodborrne level weapon variety would have been welcomed, with maybe a bit of refinement to make each one a tad more unique. Look at what Nioh did, for all the faults that game has, it struck the PERFECT balance between depth of combat and weapon variety; 5 or 6 weapons, each with their own distinct feel, style and usefulness. Yes I know Nioh is a stat heavy game but, From Soft could have at least looked at the skill system in that game and done something similar for Sekiro. Ditch the prosthetic arts (which are mostly useless), and have maybe or 4 or 5 distinct weapons with a robust skill tree to flesh out the variety.
• Bosses are mostly good, but some suffer from an annoying trend that began to plague From Soft games starting with Bloodborne: infinite stamina combos which never fucking end. This fucking gorilla boss I'm fighting now has this exact problem and while I know I can just sprint away while he is doing it, here's the thing...it isn't fun to play against. Why waste budget/animation time creating such a boring attack when you could create a move that looks unique and catches the attention of the player in a constructive way? (As opposed to "oh look he's flailing around again, guess I'll just go downstairs and get a snack until he's finished.")
• Exploration is fun, mainly for finding new areas but is negatively affected by the lack of meaningful loot. No more elation from finding a super OP weapon or armor piece from an obscure crack in a wall.

All in all, it's a fantastic game. But against my better judgement I keep on comparing it to Souls even though I know I should not.

In regards to bullet 1, I always felt that From’s magic system could have benefited from those. I like the idea of having multiple traits to target, some of which could result in instant kills. I didn’t really mind this part of Sekiro’s combat once I understood it and though this could have been explored more. The best example would be using one skill to weaken an enemy and then another skill to blast a large chunk of health or its equivalent off. Like maybe soul arrows drain stamina and when the enemies stamina is shot, a soul spear blasts off a large amount of hp. Just an idea.

 

[retinoid]

My thoughts on the game so far (only up to the Gorilla boss):

• Posture is a great mechanic that adds much needed depth to the simplistic combat from the earlier Souls games. I went back to DS1 a few days ago after playing Sekiro non stop for a couple of days and it honestly just feels archaic and plain old boring. Being able switch your priorities from a HP based victory to a posture based victory doesn't seem like much on paper, but in practice it works to vary the combat enough to warrant praise. Which brings me on to my nexr point.
• The lack of weapon/armor variety hurts. I know this is obvious and has been mentioned before but it's 100% true. One could argue this is a strength of the game as you're no longer relying on crutch gear or over-statting your character to win fights, and while I can certainly understand this point of view, the long-term replayability of games like this is honestly a core feature, in my book. I'm not saying the game needs to have ridiculous variety like DS2, but even something like Bloodborrne level weapon variety would have been welcomed, with maybe a bit of refinement to make each one a tad more unique. Look at what Nioh did, for all the faults that game has, it struck the PERFECT balance between depth of combat and weapon variety; 5 or 6 weapons, each with their own distinct feel, style and usefulness. Yes I know Nioh is a stat heavy game but, From Soft could have at least looked at the skill system in that game and done something similar for Sekiro. Ditch the prosthetic arts (which are mostly useless), and have maybe or 4 or 5 distinct weapons with a robust skill tree to flesh out the variety.
• Bosses are mostly good, but some suffer from an annoying trend that began to plague From Soft games starting with Bloodborne: infinite stamina combos which never fucking end. This fucking gorilla boss I'm fighting now has this exact problem and while I know I can just sprint away while he is doing it, here's the thing...it isn't fun to play against. Why waste budget/animation time creating such a boring attack when you could create a move that looks unique and catches the attention of the player in a constructive way? (As opposed to "oh look he's flailing around again, guess I'll just go downstairs and get a snack until he's finished.")
• Exploration is fun, mainly for finding new areas but is negatively affected by the lack of meaningful loot. No more elation from finding a super OP weapon or armor piece from an obscure crack in a wall.

All in all, it's a fantastic game. But against my better judgement I keep on comparing it to Souls even though I know I should not.

In regards to bullet 1, I always felt that From’s magic system could have benefited from those. I like the idea of having multiple traits to target, some of which could result in instant kills. I didn’t really mind this part of Sekiro’s combat once I understood it and though this could have been explored more. The best example would be using one skill to weaken an enemy and then another skill to blast a large chunk of health or its equivalent off. Like maybe soul arrows drain stamina and when the enemies stamina is shot, a soul spear blasts off a large amount of hp. Just an idea.

Making spells have a similar mechanic to posture is a good idea, but one which would need to be implemented carefully given it's ranged and practically all ranged options in From games are cheese mode. I've given this some more thought, and another system I would like to see is a Spell Mixing mechanic, similar to what we saw in Dragon Age: Origins. But again, it would beed to be implemented carefully for it to not be completely busted like Demon's Souls or DS1 magic.

 

[mogwaimon]

Just beat Sword Saint. Don't know if it helped that much, but I went and got the Dragon Mask so I could upgrade my attack with skill points and got an extra prayer bead from a miniboss I missed so I could upgrade my Vit and Posture. Brought my attack from 10-12 and, well, after that it took only two attempts more to down the bastard. I don't know if it was the attack power or if my brain finally reset to the point where I could execute a gameplan for phase 2 but phase 2 went down very easily and then phase 3 killed me once, second time I just played it safe and baited out the lightning attacks to cheese lightning reversal for the win.

Good game and I kinda wanna go through again to see the purification ending, but I think I'll let it sit for a bit since I have other games in my backlog to get through. Plus, you know, as was said before it doesn't quite have the magic of the proper Souls games.

 

[cruel]

Finally, after playing for so long, I felt good while playing this game (and it wasn't during a boss fight). Hidden Forest - essence of what I like in Souls series. Finally great atmosphere, different enemies, dangerous but not annoying, creepy mini boss, unexpected Headless in the mist, and then a village with heavy Lovecraftian vibes. Good stuff.

 

[MapMan]

My somewhat aggressive Genichiro fight. Ng+, no kuro. I love this fight. Rate and subscribe.



(Sorry for the background banter).