Settings and their lack of differentiation

[Neanderthal]

Just because you can imagine a character archetype doesn't mean it would make for a viable game. You can be a 'scientist' or a 'doctor' in fallout, but you're not going to get fucking anywhere without either guns or speech cranked way up there. Feel free to load up Fallout and spend 20 hours making use of your doctoring skill around the wasteland when you aren't too busy reloading from your certain demise to everything hostile.

Every skill should be viable, and would be in any game I GM'd, there would not just be the options for conversation and combat that most modern CRPGs rely on. Give the character a wealth of tools and methods to interact with the world, and then let them go mad and try to create consequences for everything, both good and bad. A Scientist characer I think in my theoretical setting would play out like a Walter White, an expert on chemistry and with the brains to put his expertise to use and perhaps even make small inventions, bombs, poisons, and gadgets of all sorts. Link the complexity and damage of these things to a stat and a roll and it should remain fairly balanced, with an obvious need for expensive ingredients and the equipment and premises to craft them.

However it is perfectly reasonable in my opinion for a class to not have an optimal combat role, so long as they have an optimal role in gameplay somewhere, like the old Thief being the master of the city in AD&D or the Ranger master of the wild.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

There're all kinds of settings in differnet genres, but I do think RPGs tend to be medieval-ish with spells thrown in. I think that's because it's popular. The medieval time period is recent memory in our human history and I think that's why it appeals to us. It's also sufficiently similar. I do think that matters. If something is too far removed, we won't relate to it. That doesn't mean we can't stretch the truth and force the setting to be similar in various ways. It takes a little more creativity to do that though.

When people here say Fantasy is RPG-friendly they're right. A lot of the arguments are just tied to "Anything can happen and it'll make sense since fantasy can be anything!" Fantasy is a generic term in that it can ecncompass virtually anything. You could make a simulation of our universe and call it fantasy if your playing audience existed in a different reality and considered our reality fantasy. We would of course consider it a simulation and wouldn't enjoy it and could not name it a fantasy.

Settings should probably have internal logic of course. Some posters here covered that.

 

[Space Insect]

There're all kinds of settings in differnet genres, but I do think RPGs tend to be medieval-ish with spells thrown in. I think that's because it's popular. The medieval time period is recent memory in our human history and I think that's why it appeals to us. It's also sufficiently similar. I do think that matters. If something is too far removed, we won't relate to it. That doesn't mean we can't stretch the truth and force the setting to be similar in various ways. It takes a little more creativity to do that though.

When people here say Fantasy is RPG-friendly they're right. A lot of the arguments are just tied to "Anything can happen and it'll make sense since fantasy can be anything!" Fantasy is a generic term in that it can ecncompass virtually anything. You could make a simulation of our universe and call it fantasy if your playing audience existed in a different reality and considered our reality fantasy. We would of course consider it a simulation and wouldn't enjoy it and could not name it a fantasy.

Settings should probably have internal logic of course. Some posters here covered that.

Yeah, but the late 1700s is even more recent and we don't see many Amadeus-themed rpgs.

Imagine Amadeus with a really intricate and unique magic system. Or even make certain social skills a form of magic. "Cast spells to recognize certain musical compositions or know how to eat properly." Imagine if there is also a witch hunt to show to the dark side of Austrian society during the late 1700s.

I really need to stop getting carried away with my rpg wet dreams.

 

[Fenris 2.0]

Do you have any interesting ideas for settings/have any games with unusual gameworlds or anything like that?

Alternate timeline for ww2
I would love to see horten 229s starting from giant airship carriers to attack new york
If you play a special unit under the command of von Stauffenberg or Rommel there might be room for some great C&C...

Fallout Europe
I'd love to roam postapocalyptic europe - maybe the real cool nations like prussia, the hanse and sparta can come back^^

Hard SciFy
For hundreds of years minorities launched generation ships into the stars to preserve their style of live - now the first ship wich is able to fly near light speed and has cryopreservation is ready to lift off... let's see what happened to all these wackos.. maybe you will even find the fabled retreat of the last white men

(I also have some Classic Fantasy and Classic SF Settings with a twist on my mind but I guess they would be OT^^)

 

[poetic codex]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I would love to see an RPG set in an actual Tolkien setting. Anyone who has read the Silmarillion will know that middle earth is a dynamic and fascinating place that is nothing like D&D. Humans like Turin Turambar who can equal any elf in grace and dexterity, the strange but sad tale of Maeglin the dark elf, Fingolfin rising up and engaging in hand to hand combat with Morgoth (Sauron was his mere servant) , a one-armed man called Beren and his love Luthien on an impossible challenge to steal a jewel from Morgoth's crown on his head, Ungoliant (from whom Shelob descended) growing to a monstrous size sucking up light from the trees in Valinor and vomitting out the essence of darkness itself etc. etc. RPG games so far have used D&D setting and Tolkien's middle earth is actually very different from D&D's Faerun.

 

[lurker3000]

Late to this circle-jerk but I would like something set in a Arabian type environment. Doesn't need to be based on real history but the environment/culture is vastly underused. Desert raiders and caravans, lost temples and oasis's, sneaking into palaces and harems. That sort of shit.

Also Stone age/bronze age stuff would also be fun. Those wolf packs are going to look a lot more daunting when you're running around with a stone club. Or maybe just a sharpened stick.

Finally I'd kill for something like the old Starflight games but with more rpg elements.

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

Alternate timeline for ww2
I would love to see horten 229s starting from giant airship carriers to attack new york
If you play a special unit under the command of von Stauffenberg or Rommel there might be room for some great C&C...

You could even do a WWII setting without anything unrealistic: set it in Nazi-occupied France and play as a double agent. It might work well if you ramped up the moral ambiguity and showed the Allied forces and freedom fighters doing the some of bad things they actually did in reality.

Hard SciFy
For hundreds of years minorities launched generation ships into the stars to preserve their style of live - now the first ship wich is able to fly near light speed and has cryopreservation is ready to lift off... let's see what happened to all these wackos.. maybe you will even find the fabled retreat of the last white men

Isn't that the premise of "The Other Foot" from Ray Bradbury's The Illustrated Man?

 

[Beastro]

Races, just use the common races of Humanity, but give them statistical bonuses as tropes dictate or you want, and do some research on their cultures and peculiarities. Though you can just go with cliches, because they work, stiff arsed Brit, loudmouth Yank, practical German, fiery Italian etc. I don't know whether you wnat to include different species, creatures that cannot mate with Humans and are of a far different strain of animal, but introducing such a creature into the setting might be a good spur to adventure. The rise of a competitive species is always trouble, because of competition and the inherent dangers of that.

If only it was made 10-20 years ago. I bet nowadays that kind stuff would piss ppl off looking to be outraged.

Could make a game like that putting a new spin on Civilization where you could play an archetype avatar of your civilization and help it various eras, the exact setting depending on the choices you and others Avatars make so it's just not the same Renaissance and shit each playthrough.

That isn't all that far from the original spirit of the "Sid Meier's" series of games, as Sim Earth shows.

 

[Beastro]

Late to this circle-jerk but I would like something set in a Arabian type environment. Doesn't need to be based on real history but the environment/culture is vastly underused. Desert raiders and caravans, lost temples and oasis's, sneaking into palaces and harems. That sort of shit.

Also Stone age/bronze age stuff would also be fun. Those wolf packs are going to look a lot more daunting when you're running around with a stone club. Or maybe just a sharpened stick.

Finally I'd kill for something like the old Starflight games but with more rpg elements.

Stone Age would be simple, but difficult setting of just surviving ordeals. Following herds, logistic management, wise maintenance of fire (what you'd want for wolves, fire scares the crap out of all animals) that's hard to find again (essentially waiting for a forest fire or lightening strike to make a new firebundle from). Could make an open ended, emergent plot kind of in the Mount and Blade mold where you make the story as you go along with a ledger recounting the trials and tribulations your tribes faced until you screw up and die (for me a kind of game where you don't play to win but play as well as you can to eventually lose in a really interesting way).

Bronze Age, Mesopotamia would be awesome even if it was "realistic" and wasn't mythological fantasy. The whole region was full of competing city states, make it where you pick your starting city and have the plot develop from different perspectives from someone from Ur, or Sumer or Nippur.

If you need a overarching threat then have it be the Akkadians, or early Babylonians and Assyrians, or include all those and have Nairi be the threat, a semi-legendary people in the Zagros Mountains to the north who were renown for both being very uncivilized, yet very good at war that threatened the region.

 

[Fenris 2.0]

You could even do a WWII setting without anything unrealistic: set it in Nazi-occupied France and play as a double agent. It might work well if you ramped up the moral ambiguity and showed the Allied forces and freedom fighters doing the some of bad things they actually did in reality.

Well, there would be nothing new to see - no wunderwaffen, no new battles. It would mostly be a storyfag game and I want lots of combat

"Isn't that the premise of "The Other Foot" from Ray Bradbury's The Illustrated Man?

*googles* hmm not really; not much combat and exploration in this story.

 

[Rake]

It would mostly be a storyfag game and I want lots of combat

Original and interesting settings should matter more to storyfags in the first place.
Why would a combatfag care about the setting his dungeon crawler is in? Generic dungeon #4326478 in generic High fantasy World #42434 works wonders for combat centric games as long as their encounter design and their systems are good

 

[Fenris 2.0]

Original and interesting settings should matter more to storyfags in the first place.
Why would a combatfag care about the setting his dungeon crawler is in? Generic dungeon #4326478 in generic High fantasy World #42434 works wonders for combat centric games as long as their encounter design and their systems are good

But I like to fight at exotic and new places; and I love to have different Equiqment from time to time - a gun centric setting needs other tactics then a Setting that is mostly melee orientated. But it's true - if the system and the encounters are great, I don't mind Generic dungeon #4326478 in generic High fantasy World #42434.

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

Well, there would be nothing new to see - no wunderwaffen, no new battles. It would mostly be a storyfag game and I want lots of combat

If it was set following the invasion of Normandy you could have plenty of combat, and you could stall the Allied forces until some of the wunderwaffen were deployed. A few of them actually had working prototypes.

 

[Beastro]

Well, there would be nothing new to see - no wunderwaffen, no new battles. It would mostly be a storyfag game and I want lots of combat

Storyfag wise the Eastern Front as a German officer would be neat. Have it FPS with a mix of Telltale-like parts where you have to decide on making typical Eastern Front decisions. Have it where if you try to avoid doing terrible things it hurts your rep and makes enemies out of the politicized officers around you (or the opposite and have the apolitical ones on your back), so you have to balance when to dirty your hands and when to cut a straighter path.

Good luck getting a game like that made though, much less having anyone in Europe be able to buy it.

If it was set following the invasion of Normandy you could have plenty of combat, and you could stall the Allied forces until some of the wunderwaffen were deployed. A few of them actually had working prototypes.

Oh, God. Not this crap again. I'm sick of it dealing with military message boards.

Go stick the napkinwaffe where the sun don't shine.

Fallout Europe
I'd love to roam postapocalyptic europe - maybe the real cool nations like prussia, the hanse and sparta can come back^^

Fallout: Pacific Northwest would be my pick.

Close enough to the original setting, but California is on the border of fresh new territory. Wonderful setting where you get to deal with the abandoned tech in the Puget Sound area from WWIII (What you'd expect to be the major staging ground for a war in Alaska), the Annexation of Canada and how things in the region have developed since then (Maybe have a massive wall along the 49th Parallel that's been maintained by the Canadians out of fear), and the lingering effects of the war in Alaska without jumping too far from California. Like maybe the Chinese soldiers cut off and left behind in Alaska have merged with the American population in the state and become a new empire that's now sorted things out and is preparing to march south. If you want to do the typical thing, just have the ape the Mongols with Communist flavouring or someone else Oriental in style ala Caesar's Legion, though I'd personally find that stupid (ideally, I'd rather the series focus on the theme of FO1 and the Master seeing new societies emerge than constantly follow FO2 and have different kinds of hold over powers like the Enclave - Caesar's Legion was ok in VB because it was a side power, but with FONV that's now 3 out of 4 games so far with hold overs of one kind of the other as antagonists with NV double so if you could NCR as an antagonist as well).

I'd also have it drop the tradition of each sequel taking place chronically after the next. In FONV/Van Buren's case it made sense, but with the Northwest setting it could take place between FO1 and 2 where NCR Ranger scouts and intelligence agents are creeping into the region, the nations existence is know, but they're still a distant power and would remain so even after FONV (Hey, how about we explain why they always expanded south and east of Cali but never north of southern Oregon!?).

 

[Copper]

There's a difference between underexploited genres, and underexploited settings that's not really being discussed. As far as genres, go, we're basically looking at fantasy, sci-fi, and historical, with all their cross-overs like time travellers/alternative histories, space fantasy like Star Wars, superheroes in the modern day, etc. It's only once you really start to narrow it down that you can talk usefully about the setting.

What's strange about this debate is that even weird stuff like Fallen London was pretty popular - and it wasn't for the mechanics, it really was all down to the weird setting. Thief and Dishonoured are hardly traditional fantasy games, and neither is stuff like the Legacy of Kain/Soul Reaver games.

Going by sales on something like this, it's pretty hard to argue that 'setting' really has anything to do with sales, even in cRPG terms. Elderscrolls and Borderlands are nearly tied on sales, at least according to wiki, and the highest grossing RPG series is of course Final Fantasy, which is hardly trad high fantasy. If I was going to make a AAA rpg, purely for the money, I'd go either go 'elite military/mercenary/criminal team/person cross the globe, visit exotic locations, and rob them/fix their problems/kill everyone' or 'Mass Effect in Modern Warfare/Modern Crime/Football'. (They would of course be flashy, real-time action rpgs to maximise $$$)

The 'problem' is not setting - in fact, different settings could lead to more sales (look how much more successful Mass Effect has been for BioWare than Dragon Age) but one of accessibility. It's not rocket science to figure out that the easier, flashier, and less complex a game is, while still offering choices in build, etc, the bigger your potential pool of buyers is. To pick on Age of Decadence a bit, its problem is not that it's set in a Roman-themed post-apoc fantasy world (dude, just say it's fantasy and let them figure the rest out for themselves) it's that the pool of buyers for 'games just like Tim Cain used to make, except not rushed out the door, and with brutally hard combat' is pretty small. The things that make it so appealing to the Codexer down the street will never appeal to the more casual audience. Skyrim didn't sell on being able to play as a gender-fluid Khajit skooma addicted thief, or on the fact that it has orcs, elves and furries, or on choices having consequences - it sold on VIKING! EXPLORING! BIG MONSTER! SHOUTING THINGS TO DEATH! That's stuff even a toddler can relate to.

You never know - the Wire by Obsidian could have been their breakout, Rockstar-style hit - but we all know it woulda been a trainwreck.

I think that's the real reason fantasy rpgs are the dominant genre - fantasy fans have a high tolerance of shit content, and they're not really being served anywhere else in the games market. It doesn't matter if the game's broken, the plot's phoned in, the gameplay is dull and repetitive - it's still fantasy, and that's all that counts. For people coming from tabletop play, standards are even lower. If you put up with Gary playing a seductive elf-maid, you can smile along with Minsc and Boo. There's also the whole correlation between traditional 'hero saves kingdom' fantasy, nostalgia and romanticism, and religious authoritarianism. Many fantasy fans are the type of people for whom any deviation is absolutely haram. If you're dealing with a sizable chunk of audience whose last book since school was R.A. Salvatore, and who genuinely like nice, neat, good vs evil stories that make them feel safe and comfortable, there's not really much incentive to change settings from fantasy, or do anything that interesting with it. China Mieville fantasy is as likely as Banksian sci-fi.

As for mechanics, you can always create shit or good mechanics for any setting. Banner Saga consists almost entirely of dudes hitting other dudes, but the turn-by-turn decisions per character have far more tactical depth than shitty kitchen-sink systems like Kotor, Shadowrun, or Arcanum.

 

[JarlFrank]

Storyfag wise the Eastern Front as a German officer would be neat. Have it FPS with a mix of Telltale-like parts where you have to decide on making typical Eastern Front decisions. Have it where if you try to avoid doing terrible things it hurts your rep and makes enemies out of the politicized officers around you (or the opposite and have the apolitical ones on your back), so you have to balance when to dirty your hands and when to cut a straighter path.

Good luck getting a game like that made though, much less having anyone in Europe be able to buy it.

That is one of my dream RPGs.

 

[laclongquan]

Hammer & Sickles where you play a Russkie agent get morally corrupted by an US agent in Western Germany post WW2.

 

[Dorateen]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I would love to see an RPG set in an actual Tolkien setting. Anyone who has read the Silmarillion will know that middle earth is a dynamic and fascinating place that is nothing like D&D. Humans like Turin Turambar who can equal any elf in grace and dexterity, the strange but sad tale of Maeglin the dark elf, Fingolfin rising up and engaging in hand to hand combat with Morgoth (Sauron was his mere servant) , a one-armed man called Beren and his love Luthien on an impossible challenge to steal a jewel from Morgoth's crown on his head, Ungoliant (from whom Shelob descended) growing to a monstrous size sucking up light from the trees in Valinor and vomitting out the essence of darkness itself etc. etc. RPG games so far have used D&D setting and Tolkien's middle earth is actually very different from D&D's Faerun.

Finally Maedhros arrived, but before he could make junction with Fingon and Turgon, Glaurung the dragon and Gothmog lord of Balrogs intercepted him. Union forces could yet have prevailed, but Uldor, son of Ulfang and a traitor, turned ranks and attacked Maedhros in the rear, while more of his kin came down from the mountains and attacked from the east. Maglor slew Uldor in single combat, but could not turn the tide of the battle. Under assault from three sides, the eastern host was scattered, and only the valour of the Dwarves of Belegost helped them escape, as their lord Azaghâl and his forces held off Glaurung, allowing the sons of Fëanor to escape into Ossiriand.

Azaghâl and his army fought with fierce iron masks on, and they were able to resist the fire far better than any Elf or Man. Then Glaurung trampled Azaghâl beneath his feet, but Azaghâl ran a dagger through Glaurung's stomach, and the dragon fled in pain. Many of Morgoth's forces retreated with him. In a solemn ceremony the Dwarves picked up their fallen leader, abandoning the battle, and marched him home in a great procession. Their wrath was so great that none troubled them.

Silmarillion is pure awesome. But the crowd that hates traditional fantasy would still cry.

 

[Telengard]

There's a difference between underexploited genres, and underexploited settings that's not really being discussed. As far as genres, go, we're basically looking at fantasy, sci-fi, and historical, with all their cross-overs like time travellers/alternative histories, space fantasy like Star Wars, superheroes in the modern day, etc. It's only once you really start to narrow it down that you can talk usefully about the setting.

What's strange about this debate is that even weird stuff like Fallen London was pretty popular - and it wasn't for the mechanics, it really was all down to the weird setting. Thief and Dishonoured are hardly traditional fantasy games, and neither is stuff like the Legacy of Kain/Soul Reaver games.

Going by sales on something like this, it's pretty hard to argue that 'setting' really has anything to do with sales, even in cRPG terms. Elderscrolls and Borderlands are nearly tied on sales, at least according to wiki, and the highest grossing RPG series is of course Final Fantasy, which is hardly trad high fantasy. If I was going to make a AAA rpg, purely for the money, I'd go either go 'elite military/mercenary/criminal team/person cross the globe, visit exotic locations, and rob them/fix their problems/kill everyone' or 'Mass Effect in Modern Warfare/Modern Crime/Football'. (They would of course be flashy, real-time action rpgs to maximise $$$)

The 'problem' is not setting - in fact, different settings could lead to more sales (look how much more successful Mass Effect has been for BioWare than Dragon Age) but one of accessibility. It's not rocket science to figure out that the easier, flashier, and less complex a game is, while still offering choices in build, etc, the bigger your potential pool of buyers is. To pick on Age of Decadence a bit, its problem is not that it's set in a Roman-themed post-apoc fantasy world (dude, just say it's fantasy and let them figure the rest out for themselves) it's that the pool of buyers for 'games just like Tim Cain used to make, except not rushed out the door, and with brutally hard combat' is pretty small. The things that make it so appealing to the Codexer down the street will never appeal to the more casual audience. Skyrim didn't sell on being able to play as a gender-fluid Khajit skooma addicted thief, or on the fact that it has orcs, elves and furries, or on choices having consequences - it sold on VIKING! EXPLORING! BIG MONSTER! SHOUTING THINGS TO DEATH! That's stuff even a toddler can relate to.

You never know - the Wire by Obsidian could have been their breakout, Rockstar-style hit - but we all know it woulda been a trainwreck.

I think that's the real reason fantasy rpgs are the dominant genre - fantasy fans have a high tolerance of shit content, and they're not really being served anywhere else in the games market. It doesn't matter if the game's broken, the plot's phoned in, the gameplay is dull and repetitive - it's still fantasy, and that's all that counts. For people coming from tabletop play, standards are even lower. If you put up with Gary playing a seductive elf-maid, you can smile along with Minsc and Boo. There's also the whole correlation between traditional 'hero saves kingdom' fantasy, nostalgia and romanticism, and religious authoritarianism. Many fantasy fans are the type of people for whom any deviation is absolutely haram. If you're dealing with a sizable chunk of audience whose last book since school was R.A. Salvatore, and who genuinely like nice, neat, good vs evil stories that make them feel safe and comfortable, there's not really much incentive to change settings from fantasy, or do anything that interesting with it. China Mieville fantasy is as likely as Banksian sci-fi.

As for mechanics, you can always create shit or good mechanics for any setting. Banner Saga consists almost entirely of dudes hitting other dudes, but the turn-by-turn decisions per character have far more tactical depth than shitty kitchen-sink systems like Kotor, Shadowrun, or Arcanum.

The thing that one must always keep in mind is: the realm of crpgs is filled with fantasy and Star Wars/Star Trek ubernerds who shit on anything that doesn't inherently look like one of those two. Other types of games don't have that issue, but it should be noted that they have their own quirks they must obey, like FPSs having to have a control setup exactly like Call of Duty, even if you're trying for a game style that's more realistic. If you're a no name crpg designer and you don't obey the above rule, you immediately lost 9/10 of your potential audience. While if you do have a name, an audience who already trusts you, you only just lost half. And that's just the way it is, and you can't fight it.

All deviations from the norm are punished severely by the ubernerds. So, if you go and design a new style of RPG rules to fit your new realm and concepts, you just entered tumbleweed territory. Going against the grain, you might - stress, might - strike gold and start up a whole new fan favorite setting. But the chances of striking gold like that are about the same in games as they are in mining, so you're much more likely to have just wasted millions of dollars, thanks to the ubernerds never even looking at what you made since it didn't fit their preconceived notions.

 

[Karellen]

Silmarillion is pure awesome. But the crowd that hates traditional fantasy would still cry.

Tolkien's works are actually really tricky to turn into an RPG setting, in my opinion. This is especially true of anything in the Third Age, because even though the Lord of the Rings is the source of many essential RPG tropes, much of the point of the novels is that the Fellowship of the Ring and their adventures are basically unprecedented and unlike anything that would happen before or since. Middle-Earth is basically a post-apocalyptic wasteland in itself - magic and wonders are rare, races and kingdoms are incredibly isolated from one another, and all in all, there just isn't all that much stuff there. On top of that, you simply can't go around murdering things for fun and profit in a Tolkienic reality without completely disregarding the basic thematic points of his works, which to a large extent is that although defying evil is noble and heroic, mortals and immortals alike are incapable of overcoming evil under their own power. All in all, Middle-Earth is awesome, and certainly the First Age is even more awesome, but it's also a profoundly glum world in which the sort of "character growth" typical of RPGs is actually kind of foreign.

For the longest time I thought that roleplaying in Middle-Earth in a way that didn't actually shit all over the setting was basically impossible. Then I tried out The One Ring, and now I'm reluctantly forced to admit that it can, in fact, be done. Whether it's actually fun is something that I'm somewhat undecided on, but in general I think it's more of a novelty experience than something that you'd strictly compare with typical fantasy roleplaying. That's pen-and-paper roleplaying, though, which in general has a greater range than CRPGs do. For a CRPG, achieving that authentic Tolkienic feel would probably be even more difficult. Maybe in something like King of Dragon Pass or Banner Saga, but would it actually be fun?

 

[Copper]

Probably. The smart play may even be not to play, and just call it an 'action-adventure game with skills and items' or 'tactical combat game where you can talk to the monsters' and see if that appeals to a wider audience, given that these RPG elements have been taken up by many other genres.

 

[Neanderthal]

One thing i'd like about a Middle Earth RPG is the nitty gritty aspect of it, so often missing from AD&D clones, where characters hunger, thirst, grow tired, are injured and lose hope. They're not just faux supermen, endlessly advancing in level and power, they are fallible and vulnerable. Allows for much more gameplay than just the usual succession of combat encounters as well, from surviving in Midgewater Marsh to navigating rapids on Anduin and even overcoming the dread shadows under Greenwood the Great. So many possible gameplay scenarios, and interesting failures and successes.

Only problem is fucking Elves, OP as fuck, CS Lewis was right.

 

[Excidium II]

ne thing i'd like about a Middle Earth RPG is the nitty gritty aspect of it, so often missing from AD&D clones, where characters hunger, thirst, grow tired, are injured and lose hope.

And have diarrhea.

 

[Beastro]

Tolkien's works are actually really tricky to turn into an RPG setting, in my opinion. This is especially true of anything in the Third Age, because even though the Lord of the Rings is the source of many essential RPG tropes, much of the point of the novels is that the Fellowship of the Ring and their adventures are basically unprecedented and unlike anything that would happen before or since. Middle-Earth is basically a post-apocalyptic wasteland in itself - magic and wonders are rare, races and kingdoms are incredibly isolated from one another, and all in all, there just isn't all that much stuff there.

The other problem is the dualistic nature of the overarching cosmic conflict. Everybody is more or less on the good side or bad. Most of know Middle Earth is good, the rest in the East and South are more or less to some degree thralls of evil or so distant from the cosmic conflict that you'd be better off picking a new setting because you'd be putting "Tolkien" above you're own creation.

The closest you get in the lore is the Eskimo-like people that live in the north that are nice, but neutral and largely unaffected by the conflict to the south as well as the Woze people that said "fuck you" to both sides and now hide in a hole in a forest.

You cannot have the Elven Kingdoms of Beleriad fighting each other in a lore friendly game because that never happened. Everyone was against Melkor, Melkor was constantly breathing down their throats crushing kingdom and kingdom and the moments when Elves fought Elves are the exceptions that proved the rule because they were very very rare, deeply dark stains in the history of their race.

The most "historical" period would be Gondor's struggles against Easterners and Southerons, taking and losing Umbar, etc which were largely typical human squabbles only remotely touched by Sauron influencing them to hopefully crush the last opposing kingdom left in the region. Even then those events were concurrent with and follow after by the clearly dualistic nature of the Witch King and Angmar fighting Arnor.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Oh you could make RPGs aplenty in the Arnor division or Gondor Civil war eras... Heck there was entire system called MERP based around those turbulent ages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth_Role_Playing

Can't say how it played but lore and setting books were interesting and you could make all kind of Chars from Cleve like Titanium bonned 7 feet tall Dunedains of pure Thal Numenorian blood, thru Arab like Haradians to Hobbits.