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Commandos-Like Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew - ghost pirates stealth strategy from Mimimi Games

lukaszek

the determinator
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Compared to Shadow Tactics
how does it compare in general? does it reach the phase of shadow tactic when late missions are more like peeling the onion, spending hours slowly removing guards around to finally get into the target in the center?
 

spectre

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Compared to Shadow Tactics
how does it compare in general? does it reach the phase of shadow tactic when late missions are more like peeling the onion, spending hours slowly removing guards around to finally get into the target in the center?
Well, peeling the onion is pretty much the point of this genre, no?
IMO It's not as absurd as the last mission in shadow tictacs (that one was a slog, unless you went for a secret shortcut to nail the bad guy), near the end, the puzzles tend to rely on
setting up a near-perfect simultaneous takedown through active pause and using all the available characters. It's like the final mission from Desperados 3, but dialed up,
because of the "soul-linked" enemies who can stay in different places but stil need to be taken out at the same time. The devs use them a lot near the end, in all the possible and absurd configurations.
 

Üstad

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Compared to Shadow Tactics
how does it compare in general? does it reach the phase of shadow tactic when late missions are more like peeling the onion, spending hours slowly removing guards around to finally get into the target in the center?
Well, peeling the onion is pretty much the point of this genre, no?
IMO It's not as absurd as the last mission in shadow tictacs (that one was a slog, unless you went for a secret shortcut to nail the bad guy), near the end, the puzzles tend to rely on
setting up a near-perfect simultaneous takedown through active pause and using all the available characters. It's like the final mission from Desperados 3, but dialed up,
because of the "soul-linked" enemies who can stay in different places but stil need to be taken out at the same time. The devs use them a lot near the end, in all the possible and absurd configurations.
Shadow Tactics ignoring the earliest missions were hard. In Shadow Gambit I don't remember ever being stuck. The games balance is just shit due to lazy map design without taking character strengths into account which gives this shallow sandbox feeling.
 

spectre

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In Shadow Gambit I don't remember ever being stuck. The games balance is just shit due to lazy map design without taking character strengths into account which gives this shallow sandbox feeling.
Yea, they needed to balance the missions so that they're doable with any lineup (perhaps even solo? I think I've seen some of those on yewtube).
Some of the abilities are pretty much broken, like the "use anywhere, on-demand, portable cover which also conveniently eats corpses."

To each his own, I guess, cause I rather enjoyed this flow and found that it's a good excuse to increase the difficulty or use some less obvious crew choices.
Using the same perfect lineup for every mission would probably burn me out really fast.

I think the goal was to make players sperg less over getting a perfect execution and just cause some mayhem. It's good fun when you just rattle the bushes and see what falls down.
Of course, this takes some adjustment for the die-hard commandos crowd (myself included) who are trained to consider tripping an alarm as mission over.
 

Üstad

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In Shadow Gambit I don't remember ever being stuck. The games balance is just shit due to lazy map design without taking character strengths into account which gives this shallow sandbox feeling.
Yea, they needed to balance the missions so that they're doable with any lineup (perhaps even solo? I think I've seen some of those on yewtube).
Some of the abilities are pretty much broken, like the "use anywhere, on-demand, portable cover which also conveniently eats corpses."

To each his own, I guess, cause I rather enjoyed this flow and found that it's a good excuse to increase the difficulty or use some less obvious crew choices.
Using the same perfect lineup for every mission would probably burn me out really fast.

I think the goal was to make players sperg less over getting a perfect execution and just cause some mayhem. It's good fun when you just rattle the bushes and see what falls down.
Of course, this takes some adjustment for the die-hard commandos crowd (myself included) who are trained to consider tripping an alarm as mission over.
Since you said it, triggering alarms is not even an issue, in fact sometimes even desirable to cause distraction. Compare that with Shadow Tactics, extra guards make everything more unpredictable and hard to solve puzzle.
 

spectre

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Yep, sometimes it's just easier to pick out guards when they fuck off to some corner in search mode. Part of me still considers it "cheaty," but it's fun to check the banter, or y'know, to break the monotony
when you're doing the same island for the third time.

Not sure it it was the right call to go sandbox with this genre, but good for them they tried. The character missions were rather well done, so I might revisit the game to play the rest of them, but as with the rest of the games in the genre, the main story has worn me out after the main story and I need to take a long break before another round.
 
Last edited:
Joined
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Finished the main story, just bought the DLC as well. Didn't beat Desperados 3 for me, but it was a fun time. The more sandboxy approach had potential to be just as amazing in its own ways(and arguably would have seen Mimimi eventually hitting it bigger in the long haul). In particular considering that they've outed themselves as actually pretty systems driven / Imm Sim-ish fans before already, and see how that fared out for Zelda and BG3.

I don't think it was quite there yet. Reasons:

- The islands are open -- but just "reset" every time you re-visit them, including all guard patrols
- Same -- but in particular early on there is a surprising lack of mission variety. E.g. "find the black pearl, soul energy" (played in German, so don't know the translation).
- Every island may have multiple entry paths -- but you'll mostly just dock on the spot nearest to your objective, unless you are artificially trying to make the mission longer/harder or are hunting for achievements.

But the open crew selection allows for some hilarious combos. One of which quite over-powered. Such as: Upgraded Teresa (anybody can pick up her bolts to return) + Pinkus (possession of enemies) = sniper infiltration squad of death. Possess an enemy with Pinkus, walk into enemy camp, let Teresa snipe, let Pinkus return her bolts. Sure, every time she downs an enemy, the alarm is being triggered. But even that is to your advantage. Pinkus when possessing only has a limited range he can move the possessed guard. However, when an alarm rings, he has to follow inquisition order. E.g. he joins the alarmed state and starts searching. In doing so, he moves beyond his limited possession range, thus being able to pick up bolts not within his range and return them to Teresa...

Mimimi Mo had also talked about about how they'd like to make the environment more interactive. But alas, this is the end, my friend. :( Looking forward to playing the DLC, and that's saying something considering the somewhat more repetitive mission nature compared to Desperados 3. :) Gonna try if you can do a couple more things with Pinkus, considering that he also gets the enemy ability when possessing them. Haven't much toyed with that yet. Oh, and Quentin and Gaelle are still underused by me also. There's two new characters in the DLC too..
 

Üstad

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Finished the main story, just bought the DLC as well. Didn't beat Desperados 3 for me, but it was a fun time. The more sandboxy approach had potential to be just as amazing in its own ways(and arguably would have seen Mimimi eventually hitting it bigger in the long haul). In particular considering that they've outed themselves as actually pretty systems driven / Imm Sim-ish fans before already, and see how that fared out for Zelda and BG3.

I don't think it was quite there yet. Reasons:

- The islands are open -- but just "reset" every time you re-visit them, including all guard patrols
- Same -- but in particular early on there is a surprising lack of mission variety. E.g. "find the black pearl, soul energy" (played in German, so don't know the translation).
- Every island may have multiple entry paths -- but you'll mostly just dock on the spot nearest to your objective, unless you are artificially trying to make the mission longer/harder or are hunting for achievements.

But the open crew selection allows for some hilarious combos. One of which quite over-powered. Such as: Upgraded Teresa (anybody can pick up her bolts to return) + Pinkus (possession of enemies) = sniper infiltration squad of death. Possess an enemy with Pinkus, walk into enemy camp, let Teresa snipe, let Pinkus return her bolts. Sure, every time she downs an enemy, the alarm is being triggered. But even that is to your advantage. Pinkus when possessing only has a limited range he can move the possessed guard. However, when an alarm rings, he has to follow inquisition order. E.g. he joins the alarmed state and starts searching. In doing so, he moves beyond his limited possession range, thus being able to pick up bolts not within his range and return them to Teresa...

Mimimi Mo had also talked about about how they'd like to make the environment more interactive. But alas, this is the end, my friend. :( Looking forward to playing the DLC, and that's saying something considering the somewhat more repetitive mission nature compared to Desperados 3. :) Gonna try if you can do a couple more things with Pinkus, considering that he also gets the enemy ability when possessing them. Haven't much toyed with that yet. Oh, and Quentin and Gaelle are still underused by me also. There's two new characters in the DLC too..
The game just shows handcrafted and special design for respective missions is just way better than the sandbox approach. By the way, the reason missions have several docking points is because of lazy design. By keeping the same island (same patrol and everything) and putting the objective somewhere else is supposed to pass as a new, different mission. Even though pretty much everyone complains about the repetitiveness.

Also there is a tactic I use since Shadow Tactics, if you throw a corpse or knocked out soldier to an enemy vision they'll investigate, even if they're one of those types that don't leave their position and deviate from their patrol paths. It's just you need to take them out before they sound the alarm, which they need to be close to the body. In this game the cannon lady does a good job at this, as she can launch bodies from great distance. A rather unorthodox tactic, just in case you want to play again with different approaches.
 
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zool

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Oct 26, 2009
Messages
900
I still can't believe that in a few years, we went from that ultra monocled main menu art of Shadow Tactics to this graphical horror show.
 

spectre

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Also there is a tactic I use since Shadow Tactics, if you throw a corpse or knocked out soldier to an enemy vision they'll investigate, even if they're one of those types that don't leave their position and deviate from their patrol paths.
Yeah, they never bothered to "fix" this one, it seems. Would be super easy, just add another guard which raises the alarm every time.
At this point, I'm beginning to wonder if it's not trying to pay homage to beyond the call of duty,
but I can't remember for the life of me what was the AI behavior on spotting handcuffed soldiers (only that you could "puppet" them).

I consider this one a last-ditch non-cheat method when I grow tired of a mission and absolutely can't be bothered to cleanly solve the given arrangement. Still an exploit.
Though with sandbox games, exploits aren't a bad thing, as long as its fun. And canoness is stupid fun.
 
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Üstad

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I still can't believe that in a few years, we went from that ultra monocled main menu art of Shadow Tactics to this graphical horror show.
I think the game hired tasteless idiots to advise them just to get “BMVI” (German Federal Ministry of Transport and Digital Infrastructure) support. I don't know if their previous games supported by German government, but if they're not that would explain so many things. Including shutting down the company despite not going bankrupt, maybe they were horrified due to political aspect of funding and lost their passion. Or maybe I'm just overthinking.
 

spectre

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Overthinking, most likely. It's germen we're talking about. They were told the requirements and followed them.
They already showed "proper leanings" in Desperados 3, even though (from what I read) they've only got the BMVI grants for project susskartoffel (SG).

Though when it comes to the decision to close shop, I think this one was actually quite professional. Very good for the employees, nothing worse than having
a "keep going, we'll think of something" kind of management in situations like this. It's fucking abusive if you're trying to earn some kind of living.

I also think they've milked the genre for what it was worth. From what I've seen, their management was pretty risk averse and keen on iterative design.
They probably thought it's the only type of game they could confidently be making with reasonable confidence and I think people were pretty much saturated
by the time SG launched.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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I started playing Yuki's Wish. I like it so far, story is as good as it needs to be, and Yuki's abilities are fun. The thing that threw me off was the voice acting - I'm like, "Why did they change her into a whimsical British school girl?" Turns out they didn't change anything from Shadow Tactics; the voice talent is the same person as before .... from the English version. I played ST with Japanese dialogue - but there is no Japanese audio available here. If I'd thought about it for 2 seconds I would have realized that I'm playing SG in English so of course they would use the English voice for Yuki. Anyway, even though it was my own dumb assumption, I'm still disappointed.
 

NJClaw

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I just finished Shadow Gambit and I have to say it was a huge disappointment.

The thing I enjoy the most in these stealth real-time tactics games is to find clever uses of your characters' abilities to solve challenging puzzles. While here each character is unique and has game-warping skills, the game clearly isn't designed to push you to use those skills in creative ways. Sure, you'll go through missions in very different ways depending on the party you choose, but the game basically never expects you to really squeeze anything more than the absolute minimum out of your set of abilities. Even on the highest difficulty, the game constantly reuses the same couple of encounters where you can easily pick off the enemies one by one, clearing the entire map without ever relying on a clever new combination of abilities. I feel like the moments where I actually had to turn on my brain and think were probably fewer than 10 during the entire game (and mostly relegated to the final mission and the DLCs).

I thought about it for a while and I mainly focused on two reasons why this is the case:
- characters' abilities are utterly broken compared to Shadow Tactics and Desperados 3. It's almost as if every character is an even stronger version of Isabelle from their previous game. With stuff like John teleporting wherever he wants, Suleidy creating bushes at will, Quentin being able to move enemies however he wants, I feel it's almost impossible to actually offer balanced challenges. They had all these cool ideas, but they couldn't find ways to create actual challenges around those ideas.
- since you're able to freely build your party for each mission, encounters around the map can't be tuned and balanced around an expected set of abilities. As a result, puzzles are simple and repetitive, and they are rarely able to make any particular character shine.

However, what broke me was the non-existing variety between areas. Not only you have to go through the same 10 islands multiple times, but every island basically looks the same. Each island has a couple of semi-unique points of interest, but 75% of each map is composed of nondescript shore next to an anonymous jungle with some wooden platforms. An incredible step backwards compared to the beautiful and varied areas of their previous games.

Finally, even though I enjoyed the personality and design of most characters (I especially loved John, Pinkus, and, above all, my boy Quentin), the "crew tales" (barely interactive vignettes you can go through between missions) are just a pathetic excuse to increase the game's length through not-gameplay. Quentin's and Toya's ones were fun in a corny way, but the others were just boring and kinda cringe. The only way I can be kind to the story is by saying it's mostly forgettable. The only parts I really liked were the personal quests for Quentin and Pinkus.
 

Zombra

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Yeah. I my heart I love Mimimi forever but these are all fair hits NJClaw. After 32 hours I set it on my "games to get around to finishing someday maybe" shelf and it's sat there for 8 months. Fun abilities but there's just no variety in the levels. Letting the player choose their team every level turned out to be a huge mistake just as I sorrowfully predicted.
 

Cyberarmy

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However, what broke me was the non-existing variety between areas. Not only you have to go through the same 10 islands multiple times, but every island basically looks the same. Each island has a couple of semi-unique points of interest, but 75% of each map is composed of nondescript shore next to an anonymous jungle with some wooden platforms. An incredible step backwards compared to the beautiful and varied areas of their previous games.

Yeah this was a huge deal breaker for me too and made the game felt like it was rushed/ quick money grab.
 

Child of Malkav

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Letting the player choose their team every level turned out to be a huge mistake just as I sorrowfully predicted.
But that's not always the case. In Robin Hood The legend of Sherwood you can choose your team members before a mission and even if you take the best people with you it's still not a walk in the park. And I think it's because each member can do 1 or at most 2 unique things (passive abilities). If you want to play non lethally you have to pick a guy that can knock out, one who can carry the bodies and one who can tie people up. That's already 3 slots filled out of possible 5. Plus they all have pros and cons. Whether they fight with lethal or non lethal weapons, what other abilities they have, whether they are athletic enough to perform actions like jumping and climbing, how fast they run etc.
In Shadow Gambit however, everyone can do almost everything. That's a problem.
 

NJClaw

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In Shadow Gambit however, everyone can do almost everything. That's a problem.
Yes, once you really think about it, it's unbelievable how many things each character can do.

If Suleidy only had her Cover Seeds ability, she would still be worthy of a slot in your party. Being able to instantly create a hiding bush (that breaks line of sight and hides corpses) anywhere on the map basically solves 95% of the problems you can encounter in this game. BUT she can also pull enemies towards her and send them away, with an ability that also works on acolytes that are being held in place by a commissarius. AND she has a very fast basic attack, so you can take advantage of even the shortest distractions. The same is true for John: being able to teleport in a huge area without raising alarms would already be enough to make it a broken character, but he can also quickly take out an enemy with his teleport and instantly hide the corpse. AND he can distract enemies anywhere in his teleport range. I won't even begin to talk about Yuki...

It's not that these characters aren't fun, but their abilities are so broken that once you put two of them together you always get a specific combinations that trivializes 99% of the content the game has to offer. After I stopped using Suleidy and John due to how strong they are together, I started having a lot of fun with Quentin/Gaelle/Teresa and Quentin/Gaelle/Yuki, but they can still do SO MUCH that nothing the game throws at you can be taken seriously.

I honestly think it's a pity the game turned out like this. They should have dropped this "build your party" idea and just stuck to unique missions tailored around a fixed cast of characters, so that each challenge could be designed around their abilities.
 

Child of Malkav

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They should have dropped this "build your party" idea and just stuck to unique missions tailored around a fixed cast of characters, so that each challenge could be designed around their abilities.
I disagree with this. I gave the example of Robin Hood that allows you to choose how many and what team members you take with you on a mission. Even if you take the best characters in the game, the game still maintains a level of difficulty mainly from the fact that each character can only do 1 or at most 2 passive abilities. On top of all the other pros and cons of various kinds that they have.
They just need to make characters less OP. Have one character with teleportation, but can't swim and is very slow. Have another with the bush creation thingy but she can't move until the bush finished consuming the body that was hidden in it or something. Or have the abilities cost HP instead so you actually have to scour the map for food or other consumables that restore HP if you want to use abilities.
 

Zombra

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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
They should have dropped this "build your party" idea and just stuck to unique missions tailored around a fixed cast of characters, so that each challenge could be designed around their abilities.
They just need to make characters less OP. Have one character with teleportation, but can't swim and is very slow. Have another with the bush creation thingy but she can't move until the bush finished consuming the body that was hidden in it or something. Or have the abilities cost HP instead so you actually have to scour the map for food or other consumables that restore HP if you want to use abilities.
You're both right; it's the combination of overpowered+no limits that makes the game unchallenging. However I agree w NJClaw that freeform party building would be better to lose, because with fixed parties, level design can be much more interesting. With "anything goes" parties, levels have to be a big slurry of the same obstacles to challenge in the same ways every time. There are reasons that Desperados and Commandos are classics and Robin Hood was forgotten.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Inheritance: https://www.gamespress.com/en-US/Shadow-Gambit-Hooded-Horse
December 19, 2024 - Hooded Horse is excited to share that it’s partnered with Mimimi Games to take over publishing duties across all platforms for the legendary studio’s final title – Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew.

Released in August 2023, Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew is the ultimate stealth strategy game, set in a fantastical vision of the Caribbean and the Age of Piracy. Take control of a cursed ghost ship with a living soul and assemble a cursed pirate crew as players must search for the mysterious treasure of the legendary Captain Mordechai, all while evading the menacing forces of the Inquisition.

In December 2023, the game received two DLC packs – Zagan’s Ritual and Yuki’s Wish, which can be purchased individually or via the game’s Complete Edition. Hooded Horse’s publishing rights extend across all versions of the game (PC & consoles), and Shadow Gambit will be integrated into the publisher’s standard suite of services for released titles.

“We are honored and humbled that Mimimi chose us to be a part of Shadow Gambit’s journey,” says Hooded Horse CEO Tim Bender. “This game is the pinnacle of stealth strategy games, and we’re looking forward to helping it maintain the long-term success it deserves.”

“Shadow Gambit is in its final form, and we’re excited to be partnering with Hooded Horse for its ongoing commercial needs,” says Mimimi Co-Founder Johannes Roth. “We’re very impressed by their approach to indie publishing and are confident they will help the game reach even more players.”

The game is localized from English into German (including audio), French, Spanish, Italian, Polish, Turkish, Russian, Brazilian Portuguese, Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.

Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew is available on PC via Steam, GOG, and the Epic Games Store, as well as PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S consoles. The base game sells for an RRP of $39.99 / £34.99 / €39.99. A press kit is available.
 

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