Game News Shadowrun Returns Kickstarter Update #57: Shadowrun Has Returned

[Brayko]

Decent, but overall, quite lacking. I become psychic.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

so, a simple verdict, is it shit and i have to go



or is it a Codex MUST BUY?

Right now it's 14€ so I'd say must buy, definitely

 

[John Yossarian]

The Matrix thing dissapointed me the most. I've only played the SNES version before, and hacking in there wasn't anything special either, but at least it was different. Here it's the same as regular combat with different graphics.

 

[Excidium]

The Matrix thing dissapointed me the most. I've only played the SNES version before, and hacking in there wasn't anything special either, but at least it was different. Here it's the same as regular combat with different graphics.

Well it wouldn't even have matrix initially. They added it in the final months of development iirc.

 

[John Yossarian]

Should have used the resources for something else then IMO.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I dunno, the matrix is just another one of those "good ideas that aren't developed fully" that this game is full of. I like it because I'm a sucker for TRON, and it leads to some cool situations in later setpieces. Oh, and it's very much necessary for it to be in the game because otherwise deckers would be a 100% useless and invalid class (and even with it present they are still underwhelming as SHIAAAAAT)

 

[Bladderfish]

Here's what they needed to make it spot on:

Male and Female (dependent on your character) voiceovers for the location flavour text, to add that extra touch of atmosphere and personality. Something like a Sam Spade voice would have gone down well.
Bosses that aren't a pushover
Side missions
More exploration
Choices that matter
More difficult combat scenarios

Still, got to admit, the game works. It *is* fun. It *is* atmospheric. And it was most certainly worth kickstarting. Nice to see that the first Kickstarter game I pledged on has worked out well. Roll on Wasteland 2.

 

[ChristofferC]

I just finished the game. It lasts like 8-9 hours

Ok. I'm not gonna play an RPG that takes less than 10 hours to finish so this is good to know.

 

[Drowed]

I dunno, the matrix is just another one of those "good ideas that aren't developed fully" that this game is full of. I like it because I'm a sucker for TRON, and it leads to some cool situations in later setpieces.

I fell that the Matrix is a very interesting idea, but terribly unexplored. I think it would be very well used as a place where we could find some sidequests and stuff. Instead of small areas to hack systems, it would be very interesting if there was actually a large network where you could explore, linked with any in-game location, almost a parallel world.

Unfortunately, I find it hard to even see any mod with this idea arise by simple lack of material: it doesn't seems to be that many "tilesets" in the game to be used in these virtual environments, which ultimately makes it difficult to create a good variety of scenarios. To explore all that the Matrix could offer as a concept, any modder will need to create new graphics; and I don't think there are many people competent enough to create new objects that would not conflict with the game's visuals.

But who knows.

 

[Metro]

Most of the pros I'm seeing from you guys are art, music, and 'atmosphere' related. AD talks about skill checks in dialogue but that seems to be undercut by the fact that there is no meaningful C&C and it's simply combat vignettes interwoven with bits of exposition.

So...

Spoiler

EDITOR WILL SAVE US

Still, $20 ($15 from KS, $5 from 50% off Russian pricing) seems a reasonable price assuming modders add content later).

What should we expect from a low-budget game?.

 

[tuluse]

The combat system is good, but (so far for me, I haven't had a chance to play too long, but others seem to agree) the encounters are just terribly easy. I think it would be straightforward to create a fun combat scenario with the tools given.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Unfortunately, the fun combat encounters only start appearing around the middle of the game. And there's not enough of them. If the game had like 10 more hours with fights similar to those in the 2nd half (TELESTRIAN OFFICE ) it would be really, REALLY dandy.

 

[Vault Dweller]

AD talks about skill checks in dialogue but that seems to be undercut by the fact that there is no meaningful C&C and it's simply combat vignettes interwoven with bits of exposition.

Yes, checks are flavor only and are usually a way to get more money or avoid spending money on bribes.

Let's say you need to get past a guard. Etiquette: Security line will do the trick. If you don't have the skill (you see the all lines, but if you don't meet the requirements, they are inactive), the moment the guard tells you to fuck off, a hooker a few steps away gets the 'talk' icon. You talk to her, give her $20 to distract the guard and it's done. Everything is right there, so you don't need to look far for an alternative solution.

Another example, you need to get into some den of evil and the price is 150 for the 3 of you. You can trick the guard with another etiquette line, if you don't have the skill, there is a guy literally next to him who will sell you the pass for 100. Plus various 'no, pay me more' lines.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You are seriously downplaying the amount of cash you can get from etiquettes by calling them flavour, VD. Almost every single shit you can sell to the fence has an etiquette check, and those additional funds help a ton if you are playing something that needs constant spending.

 

[Lerk]

This game is everything that's wrong with your average AAA blockbuster rpg and yet it gets a pass from the Codex....

Because it isn't AAA, because the editor gives it potential far beyond the bundled campaign, and because we've all been waiting far too long for TB combat with an isometric perspective.

Also, no romances. That alone elevates it above your typical Biowarian shit.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You are seriously downplaying the amount of cash you can get from etiquettes by calling them flavour, VD. Almost every single shit you can sell to the fence has an etiquette check, and those additional funds help a ton if you are playing something that needs constant spending.

They add up, of course, but I'm not sure yet what effect these extra money have on my purchasing options. So far I have plenty of money. I bought two armor sets, one with extra charisma for walking and talking, one for combat, a new shotgun, an implant, wasted 1500 on an NPC I didn't need (I guess) who didn't show up to the mission, and still have 9,000 (after missing out on this etiquette checks to get more money for the gems and the data).

 

[Mrowak]

This game is everything that's wrong with your average AAA blockbuster rpg and yet it gets a pass from the Codex....

Quite frankly I find Shadowrun to be exactly how the games of yore were designed. It sports many of their merits... any many of their flaws (e.g. linearity, simplistic design solutions). It's a solid piece of entertainment and nothing beyond that. I think you idealize those older RPGs too much, or alternatively take separately their best features from each of them and combine those together to form some meta-RPG no one has ever made.

 

[Metro]

This game is everything that's wrong with your average AAA blockbuster rpg and yet it gets a pass from the Codex....

Quite frankly I find Shadowrun to be exactly how the games of yore were designed. It sports many of their merits... any many of their flaws (e.g. linearity, simplistic design solutions). It's a solid piece of entertainment and nothing beyond that. I think you idealize those older RPGs too much, or alternatively take what you remember was the best in them and combine it together in some meta-RPG no one has ever made.

This is a fair point but I also think it's legitimate to criticize a game made in 2013 for these flaws. Harebrained has the benefit of hindsight and know how to improve upon what exists yet it seems like they didn't really attempt it. Again, I keep seeing people say 'budget constraints' but is $1.2+ million (after reward/KS/tax costs) not enough to add a little more depth? Especially to a ~10 hour game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

This game is everything that's wrong with your average AAA blockbuster rpg and yet it gets a pass from the Codex....

Quite frankly I find Shadowrun to be exactly how the games of yore were designed. It sports many of their merits... any many of their flaws (e.g. linearity, simplistic design solutions). It's a solid piece of entertainment and nothing beyond that. I think you idealize those older RPGs too much, or alternatively take separately their best features from each of them and combine those together to form some meta-RPG no one has ever made.

It's true that the fabled games of yore were simplistic and linear, but they were challenging and unforgiving. They did one thing, but they did it well.

 

[hiver]

I guess this will serve as a good live testing example for what we expect to be much better, both in Wasteland 2 and especially Torment (though that may end up with phase based combat).

 

[Mrowak]

This game is everything that's wrong with your average AAA blockbuster rpg and yet it gets a pass from the Codex....

Quite frankly I find Shadowrun to be exactly how the games of yore were designed. It sports many of their merits... any many of their flaws (e.g. linearity, simplistic design solutions). It's a solid piece of entertainment and nothing beyond that. I think you idealize those older RPGs too much, or alternatively take what you remember was the best in them and combine it together in some meta-RPG no one has ever made.

This is a fair point but I also think it's legitimate to criticize a game made in 2013 for these flaws. Harebrained has the benefit of hindsight and know how to improve upon what exists yet it seems like they didn't really attempt it.

True, but I was merely pointing out how S:R is far from todays AAA blockbusters. One can say it is too oldschool for the next-gen of gamers.

Again, I keep seeing people say 'budget constraints' but is $1.2+ million (after reward/KS/tax costs) not enough to add a little more depth? Especially to a ~10 hour game.

I think you cannot really quantify depth like that. Having said that I think there are two possible causes of the final state of the game:

1) The designers themselves were veterans... stuck to their old guns and years of progress have passed them by.
2) The designers did not read sacred scriptures of the Holy Kodex and stuff that is obvious to us (C&C and their design) is black magic to them.
3) The devs did not really have time to fuck around with intricacies as the project schedule was approaching deadline - they repriotised core features (the game is functional and stable, the game has a token campaign advertising what the engine is capable of, the game has adventure editor that can be used to create DLC for further milking etc.). Needless to say if that's the case it was the right decision.

 

[FeelTheRads]

What are the fabled games of yore?

 

[Cowboy Moment]

This game is everything that's wrong with your average AAA blockbuster rpg and yet it gets a pass from the Codex....

Quite frankly I find Shadowrun to be exactly how the games of yore were designed. It sports many of their merits... any many of their flaws (e.g. linearity, simplistic design solutions). It's a solid piece of entertainment and nothing beyond that. I think you idealize those older RPGs too much, or alternatively take what you remember was the best in them and combine it together in some meta-RPG no one has ever made.

This is a fair point but I also think it's legitimate to criticize a game made in 2013 for these flaws. Harebrained has the benefit of hindsight and know how to improve upon what exists yet it seems like they didn't really attempt it.

True, but I was merely pointing out how S:R is far from todays AAA blockbusters. One can say it is too oldschool for the next-gen of gamers.

Again, I keep seeing people say 'budget constraints' but is $1.2+ million (after reward/KS/tax costs) not enough to add a little more depth? Especially to a ~10 hour game.

I think you cannot really quantify depth like that. Having said that I think there are two possible causes of the final state of the game:

1) The designers themselves were veterans... stuck to their old guns and years of progress have passed them by.
2) The designers did not read sacred scriptures of the Holy Kodex and stuff that is obvious to us (C&C and their design) is black magic to them.
3) The devs did not really have time to fuck around with intricacies as the project schedule was approaching deadline - they repriotised core features (the game is functional and stable, the game has a token campaign advertising what the engine is capable of, the game has adventure editor that can be used to create DLC for further milking etc.). Needless to say if that's the case it was the right decision.

Apparently switching from top-down to iso with 3D characters messed their schedule up substantially, as they weren't used to the tools and had more trouble adjusting than they anticipated. They also switched engines from Moai to Unity.

 

[Stabwound]

Follow the arrow, endure dialogues in biowarian fake C&C style, click on everything that shines, do WHATEVER in combat and win.

This game is everything that's wrong with your average AAA blockbuster rpg and yet it gets a pass from the Codex...

Move it to the mainstream forum already. You can always bring it back when/if someone uses the editor to make something that resembles a real cRPG.

Kickstarter + "turn based isometric" = people giving the game's flaws way more of a pass than they deserve.

 

[Mrowak]

This game is everything that's wrong with your average AAA blockbuster rpg and yet it gets a pass from the Codex....

Quite frankly I find Shadowrun to be exactly how the games of yore were designed. It sports many of their merits... any many of their flaws (e.g. linearity, simplistic design solutions). It's a solid piece of entertainment and nothing beyond that. I think you idealize those older RPGs too much, or alternatively take separately their best features from each of them and combine those together to form some meta-RPG no one has ever made.

It's true that the fabled games of yore were simplistic and linear, but they were challenging and unforgiving. They did one thing, but they did it well.

I... don't really agree. An anecdote: I showed S:R to my younger cousin today and let him play a fight that was no challenge to me - he got massively obliterated. Normally I would start whining about " 'dem next-gen popamole fed youngsters", except my cousin is one of the better MTG players in Potatoland, and generally a bright lad. The only reason I think he failed was due to unfamiliarity with the system and enemy AI behaviour patterns - the stuff which we have learned over the course of all those years it's obvious to us.

I mean I remember how I wasted hours upon hours on games like Betrayal at Krondor or Dark Sun when I was a kid. It was difficult then. Now, when I replay them or play other titles I didn't get the chance to relish in the past (e.g. Darklands) they pose no real challenge. I think after all those years of playing and replaying (and in your case, designing) tactical cRPGs has made us so proficient in them we crave challenges we wouldn't enjoy 15-20 years ago.

That being said, there should have been an "Impossible" difficulty for veterans.