Game News Shadowrun Returns Kickstarter Update #67: Dragonfall announced, save-anywhere enabled, DRM removed

[gromit]

easy encounters can be made impossible if you refuse to load, because of a lucky critical or dodge.

Live with it! Overcome challenges that aren't specifically tailored to allow players to proceed smoothly. A man goes down. Play on. See if you can do it. If you can't, load a save from the time and circumstances of your choosing. Or Ironman: play the whole game over, to get back to the part with the interesting challenge where you need to come up with a different tactic.

We are assuming that it was an interesting, tactically challenging scenario that finally did us in, right? Not running out of resources three encounters before the end of a dungeon, because you got so fucking bored you stopped paying attention, and get sloppy fighting dull trash mobs you could swear you already swept cleanly three times that week? And that said challenge doesn't hinge on whether or not you've used an extra 0.01 potions-per-kobold?

I figured I'd clarify, because neither of these ever really come up in the game.

No fight should last over an hour anyway but the toughest ones anyway and with an option to break save&exit or 1-save per fight it should be enough even to the most casual of players.

Not that "not having all the time in the world to let a game boss you around" makes a player "casual," unless we mean it in the "he's only a casual heroin user" sense... but yes, this would be enough for me. I didn't even admit / mention this, because I still don't see the point in inflicting save limitations, in some misguided effort to jank an easy game into being challenging and interesting by tweaking the menu items.

Which didn't even work because "having a schedule" is the only difficult thing about the entire game.

I planned ahead anyway, because it's more fun that way. It's like a clean sweep in KB, only if you didn't at all have to actually worry about resources ever running out or people not coming back to life when you reach the hub. Which completely works with the whole "I want to live with my mistakes" thing you're going for here.

hard encounters can be made irrelevant with the ability to load games on a turn per turn basis

This is the player's "failure," because

If you fuck up and lose with save states that you load every time you fuck up, then you lose nothing, you have unlimited tries, you also dont learn from your mistakes, because you.dont.need.to.

Anyway, this is the part -- it's all been the part, really -- where I try to speak directly to your points, and ask direct questions, and you keep repeating what you are saying as if I don't understand what you're (not) arguing, but add that it's fact.

Have a nice weekend, try to not lose any sleep over the notion that -- *gasp* -- someone MIGHT BEAT A VIDEOGAME IN A LESS-THAN-HONORABLE MANNER.

This is not a matter of personal preference

Ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Lhynn]

ima just number the answers because fuck quoting.

a) Nope, just a lucky 20 from gnoll number 56 that kills your main character thus ending your carrer. or x-com EU particular brand of bullshit, where a single bad roll can have a domino effect that wrecks your whole game.

b) If you really dont load during a fight, i dont see whats your complain about not being able to save your game more than once. the whole thing is just so stupid i refuse to keep arguing about it.

And where the fuck did i say that a game without save states would be easier? i just said it would keep encounter bullshit to the minimum.

c) Player failure does not exist, a game is just that, a game, it has rules, if it allows you to save scum, then it is a valid way of playing the game, not only that, it is probably intended to be played that way or simply an oversight from the developer.
Do you honestly believe a game like dark souls would be what it if it had save on spot? if every time you died you could just reload a couple seconds before dying and prepare accordingly? in a TB enviroment its even worse.

d) it isnt, every element in the game should reinforce the theme of the game as a whole, a turn based rpg should always make the player think before each move, as mistakes are costly. save states override that and its a way for the player to bruteforce their way to victory tru trial and error. Because hey, its a tool, and its there, lets use it.

 

[Jaesun]

Save anywhere.... removed????

wat

Save anywhere is fucking retarded popamole shit. Like when heading out to a mission and picking people, you went in with the team you selected. No retarded relaoding and trying a different team. I liked the no save anywhere because it closely simulates a PnP session, and eliminates retarded reloading.

 

[Infinitron]

No, read what you posted again.

Also if you don't want to reload then just don't.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Save anywhere is fucking retarded popamole shit. Like when heading out to a mission and picking people, you went in with the team you selected. No retarded relaoding and trying a different team. I liked the no save anywhere because it closely simulates a PnP session, and eliminates retarded reloading.

Sounds like someone should invest in a console or two and finally drop the elitist pc act. But at least you came out of the closet again.

 

[Kane]

ya'all need to check your privilege against strong & independent cyberpunk ork women

 

[Jaesun]

No, read what you posted again.

Oh FFS. That's what I get for posting drank on the codex.

What I meant was ADDING save anywhere is retarded popamole shit. But the retarded masses want it, and that's what we will get. Oh well. Color me surprised.

And yes, I can just choose to not reload my game. And that's how I play.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Before that console checkpoint system shall beat me down, I'll die with my quick save in my hand.

 

[DeepOcean]

This name Dragonfall could mean the death of Nachtmeister by Lofwyr?

 

[thesheeep]

Also if you don't want to reload then just don't.

Exactly. I don't get how this is bad in any way. Don't want to save/reload often? Don't do it.

I am constantly saving in games where I know death can be around every encounter. Saving in the midst of combat is another thing, something which I'm not sure I would support.

 

[Roguey]

In SR combat never ends on a combat map unless all the enemies are dead (and sometimes not even then) so you probably will be able to save during combat.

I'm sure some people will use this to degenerate ends but it doesn't seem likely to me that most people reload after every missed shot or every hit. Sounds like major OCD.

 

[tuluse]

Yeah, having a more robot system for switching between combat and non-combat states would be nice.

 

[t]

As much as I like and want to be able to save on my own, I believe Jaesun is onto something here. The save system definitely has to have an impact on the design of the game. You can't honestly say that "just not saving" will bring you the same experience as playing the game specifically designed for checkpoint-like gameplay. Shadowrun Returns can't throw at you too many fights in a row, those can't also be too long and have to be kinda easy. Locations need to be small enough etc. Although it's possible that developing SR for tablets as well had something to do with the locations being tiny.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

As much as I like and want to be able to save on my own, I believe Jaesun is onto something here. The save system definitely has to have an impact on the design of the game. You can't honestly say that "just not saving" will bring you the same experience as playing the game specifically designed for checkpoint-like gameplay. Shadowrun Returns can't throw at you too many fights in a row, those can't also be too long and have to be kinda easy. Locations need to be small enough etc. Although it's possible that developing SR for tablets as well had something to do with the locations being tiny.

Some people in the modding thread said it has to do with the renderer being crap IIRC

 

[thesheeep]

If the renderer has something to do with the save system, it would mean they have someone new to programming making the decisions.
Rendering and the save system should be apart as much as possible in any game engine. It just has nothing to do with each other.

I really doubt that this is the reason. But you never know.

 

[Spectacle]

If the renderer has something to do with the save system, it would mean they have someone new to programming making the decisions.
Rendering and the save system should be apart as much as possible in any game engine. It just has nothing to do with each other.

I really doubt that this is the reason. But you never know.

The renderer being crap is the reason for the small locations, not the save system, I assume.

 

[Jasede]

"f****** iPhone game" to paraphrase Vault Dweller.

wtf?
I've been the one calling it an iPhone game since it came out and now it's something Vault Dweller supposedly said? I've never heard of this.
If you're confusing me for Vault Dweller I really hope you're not also confusing your wife for a husband.
bah

 

[aleph]

"f****** iPhone game" to paraphrase Vault Dweller.

wtf?
I've been the one calling it an iPhone game since it came out and now it's something Vault Dweller supposedly said? I've never heard of this.
If you're confusing me for Vault Dweller I really hope you're not also confusing your wife for a husband.
bah

what are you talking about? everybody knows Vault Dweller coined the term. who are you anyway?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Do you deny the miracles of Dear Leader Vault Dweller, Jasede?