Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns Pre-Release Thread

[Dickie]

I love that the second comment is "How exactly do we reach Brian?" Reading is hard.

 

[Jaesun]

Can certain speech options be "unlocked" by low ability/skill scores?

For example, a stupid character might say something that only makes things worse, or a low Charisma character might tell a lie unconvincingly, opening a "suspicious" branch that a charming character would naturally avoid.

You betcha.

<3

 

[Excidium]

What does that even mean? Like, why would you even pick those options knowing you'll fail?

 

[tuluse]

You can hide skill checks if you want.

 

[Dickie]

Yeah, unless you're larping, why are you gonna choose the worse option?

Edit:

You can hide skill checks if you want.

Oh.

 

[Excidium]

You can hide skill checks if you want.

Hiding active checks is a whole another level of stupid.

 

[tuluse]

Also, I would guess you could only provide bad options if you wanted. So the only dialog options relied on charisma, high charisma = good option, low charisma = bad option.

 

[Excidium]

Does the game use rolls for checks or is it a fixed value thing?

 

[Aeschylus]

Does the game use rolls for checks or is it a fixed value thing?

From the videos it appears to be fixed value.

 

[tuluse]

Fixed value is what they've showed, eg: you need 8 charisma to unlock this option.

 

[Excidium]

Well, that's p. bad.

 

[Jaesun]

Mike’s Dev Diary - Art

Update #48

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/posts/435030?ref=activity

It's a pretty big update explaining some of the engine, lighting etc... worth a read if you are interested in this.

 

[Roguey]

As a result, we put a lot of effort into optimizing what we've been calling the "iso read" of our characters - the simple, large shapes, colors, values, and high-contrast areas of a character's silhouette that allow the player to identify them at a glance. This is absolutely critical to gameplay - not only do I need to recognize Lone Star from lab tech, but I need to be able to distinguish between Lone Star grunts, captains and hired spellslingers at a glance during combat.

Sweet, sweet stylization.

 

[Grunker]

You can hide skill checks if you want.

Hiding active checks is a whole another level of stupid.

Why? How is it bad to remove a sensible line of dialogue and display a worse one if your character has low charm? You're limiting yourself by dumping Speech stats - if the dialogue tree reflects this by only giving you access to "bad" options, that's not just cool, it's a concept that should have been implemented a long time ago.

 

[Excidium]

You can hide skill checks if you want.

Hiding active checks is a whole another level of stupid.

Why?

Because "active". Feel free to hide the outcome of the check, maybe the NPC knows you're lying but doesn't show any reaction but fucks up you later. But If I'm using my bluff skill or whatever then I should know I am because I chose to use it in the first place. That's why hiding checks is stupid. it's a band-aid fix for the obsidian/troika school of design where succeeding a skill check = instant win, no risk or effort required.

You're limiting yourself by dumping Speech stats - if the dialogue tree reflects this by only giving you access to "bad" options, that's not just cool, it's a concept that should have been implemented a long time ago.

If I'm playing a character with dump speech stats then of course I'm going to get fucked if I pick dialog options that rely on those stats, specially in a game with fixed checks. Like I said, why would I pick them in the same place? I'd just shoot the fucker in the face already and get the benefit of surprise like you can do as showed in the demo video.

 

[Grunker]

If I'm playing a character with dump speech stats then of course I'm going to get fucked if I pick dialog options that rely on those stats.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying why even give you the option of saying something that doesn't cause harm? Imposing "bad options" on shitty speech characters is as efficient and well-designed a roleplaying game mechanic as providing particularly good ones to good speech characters. Just like not giving you certain options in combat is OK if you haven't specialized in them.

 

[Excidium]

And what I'm saying is that nobody will pick a guaranteed fail state unless it's the only option.

 

[Grunker]

And what I'm saying is that nobody will pick a guaranteed fail state unless it's the only option.

Which is why I'm saying that providing one or two bad options and hiding the rest is OK if your character has shitty speech skills for the particular situation.

 

[Excidium]

The only way I'd accept something like that is if it's punishment for reaching that dialogue node in the first place.

 

[Ulminati]

You start with a charisma of 1, you get punished.

I can totally get behind that.

Same with hiding the stat check notification. That allows me to have multiple states of success/failure for a dialogue option depending on a characters etiquette+charisma and only display the one they qualify for.

The SR:R system is pretty much identical to the PS:T dialogue system as far as I can tell. Are you going to complain that the PS:T dialogue was bad?



As an aside, I'm totally going to drop a piece of falsified information in an adventure that unlocks a dialogue option when you use it against an NPC. At that point they call your bluff and you get to look like an idiot for not researching the information further.

 

[Excidium]

You shouldn't get punished for having 1 charisma, you should get punished for trying to do shit with your 1 charisma.

Same with hiding the stat check notification. That allows me to have multiple states of success/failure for a dialogue option depending on a characters etiquette+charisma and only display the one they qualify for.

People on the Shadowrun thread really likes twisting things around. What was being suggested is hiding the fact that a stat is being checked, not hiding options you don't qualify for.

The SR:R system is pretty much identical to the PS:T dialogue system as far as I can tell. Are you going to complain that the PS:T dialogue was bad?

Yes? Stat checks have usually been done real poorly in CRPGs.

 

[Ulminati]

You shouldn't get punished for having 1 charisma, you should get punished for trying to do shit with your 1 charisma.

Same with hiding the stat check notification. That allows me to have multiple states of success/failure for a dialogue option depending on a characters etiquette+charisma and only display the one they qualify for.

People on the Shadowrun thread really likes twisting things around. What was being suggested is hiding the fact that a stat is being checked, not hiding options you don't qualify for.

If people tell you your dump stat is being checked, you'll know to stay away from it. The only way you're going to have things backfire on people if you don't give them a heads-up. Playing modern games appears to have decreased your [intelligence]

The SR:R system is pretty much identical to the PS:T dialogue system as far as I can tell. Are you going to complain that the PS:T dialogue was bad?

Yes

Excidium thinks PS:T had bad dialogue. I think that's all that needs to be said here. I will now sit back and eat popcorn while he disciples of Avellone descend upon him.

 

[Jaesun]

All of the dialogue in PS:T was good?

 

[Ulminati]

Hidden checks on your wis/int/cha were pretty common and non-randomized. And it's the game the codex seems to use as a measuring stick for the quality of dialogue in RPGs.

 

[Excidium]

You shouldn't get punished for having 1 charisma, you should get punished for trying to do shit with your 1 charisma.

Same with hiding the stat check notification. That allows me to have multiple states of success/failure for a dialogue option depending on a characters etiquette+charisma and only display the one they qualify for.

People on the Shadowrun thread really likes twisting things around. What was being suggested is hiding the fact that a stat is being checked, not hiding options you don't qualify for.

If people tell you your dump stat is being checked, you'll know to stay away from it.

NO FUCKING SHIT. Trying to smooth talk people up is an active effort by the player, if I rolled a dumbfuck of course I am going to stay well away of any active social check.

Excidium thinks PS:T had bad dialogue. I think that's all that needs to be said here. I will now sit back and eat popcorn while he disciples of Avellone descend upon him.

Don't be dumb. I'm not complaining about the writing, I'm complaining about the systems.