Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns Pre-Release Thread

[tuluse]

The obvious elegant solution here is that game designers should be more like Josh and recognize that savescumming is a response to a bad mechanic, and players aren't bad for using it but designers are bad for creating mechanics and content that encourage its use.

Instead of sticking their heads in the fucking sand.

The srr devs did this because it was easier/cheaper not because they thought it was better. So your argument is invalid.

 

[Gurkog]

I canceled my pre-order after hearing that I can not get the extra content DRM free. I was going to buy the base game and the extra stuff... but apparently they think I will try to steal it if I pay for it.

 

[tuluse]

I canceled my pre-order after hearing that I can not get the extra content DRM free. I was going to buy the base game and the extra stuff... but apparently they think I will try to steal it if I pay for it.

Actually Microsoft thinks you'll steal it and HBS has to do what MS says.

 

[Gurkog]

I canceled my pre-order after hearing that I can not get the extra content DRM free. I was going to buy the base game and the extra stuff... but apparently they think I will try to steal it if I pay for it.

Actually Microsoft thinks you'll steal it and HBS has to do what MS says.

MS thinks that any money not in their bank accounts was stolen from them, therefore everyone (including their employees) are thieving bastards.

 

[Roguey]

The obvious elegant solution here is that game designers should be more like Josh and recognize that savescumming is a response to a bad mechanic, and players aren't bad for using it but designers are bad for creating mechanics and content that encourage its use.

Instead of sticking their heads in the fucking sand.

The srr devs did this because it was easier/cheaper not because they thought it was better. So your argument is invalid.

Well everyone itt is talking about checkpoints as a way to prevent savescumming on purpose so it's a perfectly valid argument. One can make a game with checkpoints where reloading to a previous checkpoint isn't something one would want to do with regularity. For example, Obsidian's Dungeon Siege III and Alpha Protocol (barring times you can mess up because of timed dialogue).

 

[tuluse]

If you're just arguing with posters itt then fine, but I thought you were saying it was a failing of the SRR devs that they thought the checkpoint system was better when they have said they would have liked to do save anytime.

 

[Infinitron]

Checkpoint systems are typically a console feature, but not being able to save anywhere is not. Plenty of PC RPGs won't let you save in combat, for instance.

Nothing wrong with that, right? Difference of degree, not of kind.

 

[Brayko]

The only way people are gonna trust HBS now (provided they hate the latest newsbits, which seems to be a considerable amount!) is if they Kickstart a new IP and bash on Microsoft in their pitch about previously limiting them.

Oh, and provided Shadowrun Returns turns out to be a decent release despite it's so-called limitations.

 

[Kz3r0]

The only way people are gonna trust HBS now (provided they hate the latest newsbits, which seems to be a considerable amount!) is if they Kickstart a new IP and bash on Microsoft in their pitch about previously limiting them.

Oh, and provided Shadowrun Returns turns out to be a decent release despite it's so-called limitations.

If the game is a success they won't need Kickstarter anymore because they will busy churning out sequels for Microsoft.

 

[Brayko]

"Decent" doesn't necessarily mean "financial success". The hardcore RPG crowd is enough fuel to back a "decent" game.

 

[Xenich]

Checkpoint systems are typically a console feature, but not being able to save anywhere is not. Plenty of PC RPGs won't let you save in combat, for instance.

Nothing wrong with that, right? Difference of degree, not of kind.

That doesn't bother me as usually the "time" loss is minimal in the issue. It isn't like running through all the garbage in a check point system, getting several things done and then having to leave only to return and do all of it again because you didn't find/get to the check point.

Now if combat became an issue where it was extremely long multi-stage encounters with no means of breaks in between to save, I might have an issue. The whole "fight for several hours straight" reminds me of EQ and while I enjoyed that in my youth in an MMORPG, having it mandatory in a single player game is... well... more of an "arcade/console" gimmick that I think should stay with those systems, not PC games.

 

[Infinitron]

Xenich

Some old (pre-90s) PC games used a different method. You could save and reload almost everywhere, but there was also only one save slot and the game would auto-save frequently (typically when transitioning between areas).

So you would never lose much time if you had to leave the computer, but you also couldn't save scum because the save from before you fucked up was usually gone by that point.

 

[Xenich]

Xenich

Some old (pre-90s) PC games used a different method. You could save and reload almost everywhere, but there was also only one save slot and the game would auto-save frequently (typically when transitioning between areas).

So you would never lose much time if you had to leave the computer, but you also couldn't save scum because the save from before you fucked up was usually gone by that point.

I think a lot of such types of systems were due to a limitation of memory space. I don't mind a single save slot (in all honesty, I usually only use one anyway), though the auto-save aspect would bug me as there are some "special" situations where that could essentially require an entire restart (ie you zone or walk in somewhere and it saves you right at or near an encounter mechanic with no options to retreat).


You can still short term save scum with that setup anyway, save before an encounter or decision and then rinse and repeat to get the outcome you desire.

As I have said before, I really don't care what people do in a single player game. I have seen some people even make reasonable arguments for games like ME and others where they save and reload because they like to experience the different outcomes of a decision. In the end, Its a single player game and how they decide to play it is really none of my concern. /shrug

 

[OSK]

I wonder if it would have been even easier to implement a password save system.

 

[evdk]

I wonder if it would have been even easier to implement a password save system.

I have manually transferred my character data between the Golden Sun games on GBA and I would like you to go drown yourself in horse piss.

 

[OSK]

I wonder if it would have been even easier to implement a password save system.

I have manually transferred my character data between the Golden Sun games on GBA and I would like you to go drown yourself in horse piss.

I had two GBAs and a link cable.

 

[evdk]

I had two GBAs and a link cable.

I had two hands and a noose.

 

[Jaesun]

Harebrained Schemes ‏@WeBeHarebrained42s
BP is watching fan submitted hire-able runner names & descriptions pile up! 1000+ & counting. Wanna help? http://bit.ly/11W1V6E

If you want to submit your own runner follow the link.

Harebrained Schemes ‏@WeBeHarebrained4m
Last chance to get your hands on some #SRReturns dog tags!! Sale ends on Sunday, April 28th. Don't delay! http://bit.ly/UCDfCz #shadowrun

 

[tuluse]

Update on the matrix out: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/posts/465123?ref=activity

They went for something that was more like a full simulation, but it's only going to be there for certain runs.

I think this is an acceptable compromise.

 

[Jaesun]

I'm OK with this. I was wondering how they were going to finally do this.

 

[Wizfall]

Update on the matrix out: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/posts/465123?ref=activity

They went for something that was more like a full simulation, but it's only going to be there for certain runs.

I think this is an acceptable compromise.

Looks very good, much better than expected.

 

[Roguey]

That looks nice but it's laughable how they're within two months of release and they're still not feature complete. All those cut corners and the management was still mishandled. Hope you like bugs because this is probably going to ship with a ton of them. Harebugged Schemes.

 

[Jarpie]

That looks nice but it's laughable how they're within two months of release and they're still not feature complete. All those cut corners and the management was still mishandled. Hope you like bugs because this is probably going to ship with a ton of them. Harebugged Schemes.

How did they mishandle the management and what cut corners?

 

[Roguey]

How did they mishandle the management and what cut corners?

They really ought to be in beta now, focusing on fixing bugs and polishing content, and not adding anything else.

Cut corners would be things like save anywhere, no system for handling loot, lack of ammo types, any pet feature you wish they'd have but don't.

 

[Xenich]

The only way people are gonna trust HBS now (provided they hate the latest newsbits, which seems to be a considerable amount!) is if they Kickstart a new IP and bash on Microsoft in their pitch about previously limiting them.

Oh, and provided Shadowrun Returns turns out to be a decent release despite it's so-called limitations.

If the game is a success they won't need Kickstarter anymore because they will busy churning out sequels for Microsoft.

Which will ensure a progressive process of decline.