This old video is still the latest.
Please stand by. Hopefully not forever.
-
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Incline SHELTER update thread
- Thread starter shihonage
- Start date
This old video is still the latest.
Please stand by. Hopefully not forever.
Mustawd
Guest
Running is already there (Shift at the moment), it just wasn't used in the video.
Get some sort of crowdfunding, early access or whatever crap launched so we can throw money at you.
Xzylvador , Jaesun
Wonder if Codex would kill me for trying early access and thus being forced into a Biowarian hub system, which means the entire game takes place in a giant Vault divided into 4 sections, which unlock as I make them.
There would be dangerous/abandoned areas, malfunctioning equipment, "breaches", etc., but the focus for me has always been a proper sense of immersion, dialogue, story.
Yes, the sense of freedom would be dramatically reduced, and map/encounter system is not likely to be used. I don't know how else make a game like this "early-access", and in general, manageable enough to ever complete.
Frankly I don't know even if the Biowarian story hub is doable with early access. This is easier with games which have rudimentary quest/dialogue system and focus heavily on combat, but my focus is the opposite.
When you don't release everything at once, non-linearity is a bitch.
Wonder if Codex would kill me for trying early access and thus being forced into a Biowarian hub system, which means the entire game takes place in a giant Vault divided into 4 sections, which unlock as I make them.
There would be dangerous/abandoned areas, malfunctioning equipment, "breaches", etc., but the focus for me has always been a proper sense of immersion, dialogue, story.
Yes, the sense of freedom would be dramatically reduced, and map/encounter system is not likely to be used. I don't know how else make a game like this "early-access", and in general, manageable enough to ever complete.
Frankly I don't know even if the Biowarian story hub is doable with early access. This is easier with games which have rudimentary quest/dialogue system and focus heavily on combat, but my focus is the opposite.
When you don't release everything at once, non-linearity is a bitch.
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I have no income, and this type of game takes a long time to make.
However you quoted me out of context. The correct shortening should be "Wonder if Codex would kill me for putting the entire game in a Vault".
This is not just to accomodate early access, but to make the game a realistic accomplishment, period.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
I don't think releasing the game content piecemeal is what early access is for.
That's what Underrail is doing.
I suppose you believe that early access is for a different kind of game altogether - a content-complete game riddled with bugs, and inherently procedural in nature.
I think that early access is for pussies that can't use Kickstarter.
Except Underrail. I bought that in EA and it looks sweet. Can't wait until release. Both theirs and mine.
Except Underrail. I bought that in EA and it looks sweet. Can't wait until release. Both theirs and mine.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
Not content complete, just the core since it needs to be iterative. The whole point of early access is gathering feedback while stuff is still being worked on. Unless I understood wrong what you want to do, is "Pay me now and you can play chapter 1 while I work on chapter 2 and then you can also play chapter 2 when it's done while I work on Chapter 3" and so on. It's like a less honest episodic game.
Being procedural doesn't really seem to matter for most people, but I wouldn't want to risk getting burned out of the game before it's even done. So I wouldn't buy early access Shelter
Ok forget both Kickstarter and early access. I see what you say about EA, and KS is too bothersome with fulfilling all the bonuses people want. Plus I don't like the pressure of being slave to other people's investments and expectations.
The fact is, regardless of what I do, a Fallout-scope project is not accomplisheable by me and my artist(s) alone. "Collaborating over Internet with multiple people" is a proven garbage idea for several reasons, partially already tried by me, and fully tried by "Fan Made Fallout" and "PARPG" and doubtlessly others. FMF especially had an enlightening write-up on why this fails.
There's no substitute for having a dozen paid professionals, fully on the same page, working in the same physical space, sharing the workflow, BEING THERE. Fallout had this, being Interplay and all, but I don't.
RPGs are some of the hardest genres to make. Therefore, scope reduction has to be done in order for project to be viable within a foreseeable timeframe. Reduction in terms of mechanics, actor types, location amount, tileset variety.
For me, the core is in retaining framework I created for a flexible story and meaningful C&C, while maintaining immersion via believable writing. A vault, planetary base, generation ship kind of setting should still allow for this.
Thought I had a clear vision on this but now not so much.
Oh hey, how's about that Fallout 4 game. It sure is swell.
The fact is, regardless of what I do, a Fallout-scope project is not accomplisheable by me and my artist(s) alone. "Collaborating over Internet with multiple people" is a proven garbage idea for several reasons, partially already tried by me, and fully tried by "Fan Made Fallout" and "PARPG" and doubtlessly others. FMF especially had an enlightening write-up on why this fails.
There's no substitute for having a dozen paid professionals, fully on the same page, working in the same physical space, sharing the workflow, BEING THERE. Fallout had this, being Interplay and all, but I don't.
RPGs are some of the hardest genres to make. Therefore, scope reduction has to be done in order for project to be viable within a foreseeable timeframe. Reduction in terms of mechanics, actor types, location amount, tileset variety.
For me, the core is in retaining framework I created for a flexible story and meaningful C&C, while maintaining immersion via believable writing. A vault, planetary base, generation ship kind of setting should still allow for this.
Thought I had a clear vision on this but now not so much.
Oh hey, how's about that Fallout 4 game. It sure is swell.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
Yeah. That's specially risky with early access, since you might earn close to nothing from EA sales but will still be expected to seriously work on it.
With kikestarter at least you either get funded or not, unless you fuck up the budget.
Unless folks have a big community behind their game, they rarely get funded using kickstarter. If you had such community backing you could get the money directly, so there's no need to use the kickstarter middle man at all.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
It's true, but it's still a better gamble than going EA looking for early compensation and risking being locked working for $20 a week.
I'm probably completely (and uniquely) naive in this, but personally I'd like to believe that there is a crowd (and some of them frequent the codex) that'll back/fund/sponsor you for making the game if you simply show that you have the passion + skill for it and promise to work on it until it's done and then release it.
I don't get all the negativity about EA games the rest seems to have. (Okay, there's a lot of crap and will-never-be-finished EA games there, but the same can be said about a lot of recent AAA games too; the latest Batman game being a prime example.)
Building a game takes time. You're a person and presumably need at least some food, shelter and a computer during that time. That takes money.
Releasing an unfinished (part of) a game as a proof-of-concept doesn't necessarily mean the finished product has to be flawed because of it.
Was (Is?) UnderRail's EA so bad? Styg's been honest and straight forward about everything and seems to be getting more following and very good critiques.
I'd be perfectly happy paying a reasonable amount of money and then waiting a couple of years to play (a piece of) it. ... and writing this, I suddenly understand that this isn't possible in EA games. Ugh, nevermind.
He's spending (lots of) time building a game. In the end:
- Either he releases the game and it might sell a bunch of copies and he'll have worked for <money / weeks spend building> $ a week; an amount which is unlikely to come anywhere near minimum wage.
- Doesn't release at all, in which case it's all wasted.
At least by measuring your backing progress you might be able to predict by approximation whether the final <money / weeks spend building> is something you consider worth your time and effort and if you can keep going until the end without starving or freezing. If not, bail on the project and the people who backed you and at least have some cash to show for it.
Everyone's doing it!
Well, at least we're now talking about a game that's already showing more potential than F4 will ever have, right?
I don't get all the negativity about EA games the rest seems to have. (Okay, there's a lot of crap and will-never-be-finished EA games there, but the same can be said about a lot of recent AAA games too; the latest Batman game being a prime example.)
Building a game takes time. You're a person and presumably need at least some food, shelter and a computer during that time. That takes money.
Releasing an unfinished (part of) a game as a proof-of-concept doesn't necessarily mean the finished product has to be flawed because of it.
Was (Is?) UnderRail's EA so bad? Styg's been honest and straight forward about everything and seems to be getting more following and very good critiques.
I'd be perfectly happy paying a reasonable amount of money and then waiting a couple of years to play (a piece of) it. ... and writing this, I suddenly understand that this isn't possible in EA games. Ugh, nevermind.
As if that's not already the case even without releasing it on EA or any other type of funding?
He's spending (lots of) time building a game. In the end:
- Either he releases the game and it might sell a bunch of copies and he'll have worked for <money / weeks spend building> $ a week; an amount which is unlikely to come anywhere near minimum wage.
- Doesn't release at all, in which case it's all wasted.
At least by measuring your backing progress you might be able to predict by approximation whether the final <money / weeks spend building> is something you consider worth your time and effort and if you can keep going until the end without starving or freezing. If not, bail on the project and the people who backed you and at least have some cash to show for it.
Everyone's doing it!
Well, at least we're now talking about a game that's already showing more potential than F4 will ever have, right?
Xzylvador Thank you, I appreciate your enthusiasm and feedback.
Words like "backing" make me nervous. This exchange made me zero in on the fact that my by far MAIN CONCERN is not Crippled Access/Nonstarter, but managing the game's scope so it is actually DOABLE.
This project has been "showing potential" since before Fallout THREE came out. It's been on and off in development for many years, set back by my job and health problems (crippling dry eye syndrome getting worse).
But the amount of work already done on the engine/systems is staggering. Yes, there are many screws loose, but it can clearly be made into a functional game OF SOME KIND. There is a dialogue/quest tracking system with script compiler, travel/encounter system, rudimentary turn-based combat (replacing PwRT), inventory/item system, scriptable item interactions...
I just need to narrow the scope without losing the core of what made me want to do this in the first place - atmosphere, reactive narrative, immersion. Qualities that I don't see in modern games. Witcher 3 doesn't have atmosphere or immersion, as far as I am concerned.
"Dead State", a two-person team, had the right idea about narrowing scope. Unfortunately theirs is not the kind of game I want to make.
Maybe the secret is in making the desolate world more desolate. Make encounters with talkable NPCs more treasured because there are far fewer of them left. Spruce up the world with a wide variety of random encounters (combat and non-combat) to make it feel less empty.
Or, place the entire thing in an enclosed environment such as vault, moon base, generation ship.
Words like "backing" make me nervous. This exchange made me zero in on the fact that my by far MAIN CONCERN is not Crippled Access/Nonstarter, but managing the game's scope so it is actually DOABLE.
This project has been "showing potential" since before Fallout THREE came out. It's been on and off in development for many years, set back by my job and health problems (crippling dry eye syndrome getting worse).
But the amount of work already done on the engine/systems is staggering. Yes, there are many screws loose, but it can clearly be made into a functional game OF SOME KIND. There is a dialogue/quest tracking system with script compiler, travel/encounter system, rudimentary turn-based combat (replacing PwRT), inventory/item system, scriptable item interactions...
I just need to narrow the scope without losing the core of what made me want to do this in the first place - atmosphere, reactive narrative, immersion. Qualities that I don't see in modern games. Witcher 3 doesn't have atmosphere or immersion, as far as I am concerned.
"Dead State", a two-person team, had the right idea about narrowing scope. Unfortunately theirs is not the kind of game I want to make.
Maybe the secret is in making the desolate world more desolate. Make encounters with talkable NPCs more treasured because there are far fewer of them left. Spruce up the world with a wide variety of random encounters (combat and non-combat) to make it feel less empty.
Or, place the entire thing in an enclosed environment such as vault, moon base, generation ship.
No, it's going to be inside a ... drum roll...
COMPOUND
I don't think Bethesda has the rights to a generic post-nuclear RPG. Otherwise that Mad Max game and Wasteland 2 would've been in trouble.
Also a compound doesn't have to be a post-nuclear vault, either. It can be a planetary installation, like on LV-426. The planet outside, however can be still irradiated and generally hazardous to your health.
Then they better sue NatGeo for that series about those Merikun nutsjobs doomsday preppers, too.
Nothing new, original or patentworthy about bomb/fallout shelters. Might want to avoid naming 'em vaults and putting 'em in black/yellow jumpsuits, but other than that...
Nothing new, original or patentworthy about bomb/fallout shelters. Might want to avoid naming 'em vaults and putting 'em in black/yellow jumpsuits, but other than that...
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
The difference is that he does when he feels like, it's a hobby not a job with people's money on it.
Ninjerk
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2013
- Messages
- 14,323
Don't do this kind of thinking. If it means what I think it means, it's counterproductive and self-defeating. I followed your game somewhat from a distance back when I registered on NMA (2009?), and I've always wanted to see where it was going (understandable you had to shelve it with the eye problem, though).
Saduj
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2012
- Messages
- 2,588
For what its worth, best wishes to Shihonage on dealing with the eye issue.
I've also been aware of Shelter for a while and really like some of the ideas that were discussed on NMA and Mod DB. Definitely understand the desire to avoid having "backers" for something that has to be done in spare time and when health allows.
As far as the scope goes, I think you could make a game that takes place in a small area yet remains interesting but there would have to be a lot of reactivity to player actions. IMO, having the game take place on an installation on a planet that doesn't support human life makes most sense for this. You could always mix things up a bit by having new characters and items arriving on resupply ships.
I've also been aware of Shelter for a while and really like some of the ideas that were discussed on NMA and Mod DB. Definitely understand the desire to avoid having "backers" for something that has to be done in spare time and when health allows.
As far as the scope goes, I think you could make a game that takes place in a small area yet remains interesting but there would have to be a lot of reactivity to player actions. IMO, having the game take place on an installation on a planet that doesn't support human life makes most sense for this. You could always mix things up a bit by having new characters and items arriving on resupply ships.
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