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Should there be an NPC that can craft items for the player?

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
Currently, crafting skills are insanely powerful. Take a Psi user with Psychosis, for instance. A crafted psionic headband with a neural amplifier and an appropriate magnifying filter is likely a 70-90% damage improvement over whatever is the best headband that can be bought or looted. Now consider all the other benefits of having a high electronics and biology (1.5K shield, EMP MK III, trance, etc.), and there's no way to justify not investing in electronics and biology unless the player is simply bored of crafting.

I think Styg recognized this, since in Expedition and subsequent patches many unique items were improved or added, making it more reasonable for a combatant to neglect crafting. But the gap between crafted gear and looted gear is still massive with a few exceptions. The challenge, of course, is to make crafting skills less mandatory while keeping them relevant. I think a possible solution is the addition of an NPC that can craft a limited number of items for the player. It could work like this

1. The player would bring the NPC the necessary parts. The player would then pay a hefty amount, especially for the crafting of a top tier item (i.e. thousands of charons).
2. There would be a turnaround, akin to how refurbishing guns works currently. Higher quality items have a longer turrnaround.
3. Items would be bucketed into quality tiers, and there would be either a soft limit (due to turnaround) or a hard limit on the number of items of each tier that the NPC can craft.

The player that invests in crafting would still have much better gear, but at the very least, the non-crafter could have a quarter or a third of the same gear rather than none of it. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

Late Bloomer

Scholar
Joined
Apr 7, 2022
Messages
2,914
Money sinks are always a good idea where money can be abused.
Crafted gear for non crafters sounds good as long as it stuck true to

The player that invests in crafting would still have much better gear, but at the very least, the non-crafter could have a quarter or a third of the same gear rather than none of it.

The dedicated crafter should always outperform an NPC unless it was for a singular item created by some lore based crafter of extreme noteworthiness.
No summoning the NPC either.
Give the crafter NPC some kind of history / reason for being there.
Solid idea imo.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,661
So new optimal gameplay would be forget any crafting, and just get the money...
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
So new optimal gameplay would be forget any crafting, and just get the money...

No, like I said, the player that meaningfully invests into crafting would still have much better equipment. There are so many reasons to invest into crafting. Having a few less reasons will not even begin to make those skills irrelevant.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Actually a promising idea. These NPCs with crafting could just have stats that are indicative of their ability, and charge prices depending on the quality of components. Could cap the best crafting NPCs at around 100 quality so that there would still be a significant enough difference to incentivize crafting but also give people without crafting a chance to bridge the gap a bit while also keeping uniques relevant. Would be a nice way to introduce some C&C, like perhaps restricting crafters to different factions/locations. That being said, I have no issues with the current system as it exists today.
 

Jonathan "Zee Nekomimi

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i just wish loot and crafting wouldn't be so much RNG when it comes to values and perks. Hate that shit in games that do it.
 
Last edited:

Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
8,752
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
Sure, as long as there are NPCs that do other skills as well. No idea why in so many of these games you can't just hire some mercenaries to do the killing for you.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
The real question is why the PC can trivially become a better crafter than anyone else in the game world.
The answer is because it's a poorly thought out game world designed purely based on balance concerns with zero regard for any type of world building.
 
Unwanted

SunKing

He/Him
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Dumbfuck
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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Codex Year of the Donut
The real question is why the PC can trivially become a better crafter than anyone else in the game world.
The answer is because it's a poorly thought out game world designed purely based on balance concerns with zero regard for any type of world building.
Guy you unemployed? Whats up with shitting up every underrail thread with your retarded hot takes? Game sucks move on. You got anything better to do? You waste an incredible amount of time here.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
The real question is why the PC can trivially become a better crafter than anyone else in the game world.
The answer is because it's a poorly thought out game world designed purely based on balance concerns with zero regard for any type of world building.
Guy you unemployed? Whats up with shitting up every underrail thread with your retarded hot takes? Game sucks move on. You got anything better to do? You waste an incredible amount of time here.
may I suggest applying some butthurt cream?
 

just

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
1,308
one can(should) always find time to shit on games
 
Unwanted

SunKing

He/Him
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Nov 23, 2022
Messages
129
Location
Mars
Codex Year of the Donut
The real question is why the PC can trivially become a better crafter than anyone else in the game world.
The answer is because it's a poorly thought out game world designed purely based on balance concerns with zero regard for any type of world building.
Guy you unemployed? Whats up with shitting up every underrail thread with your retarded hot takes? Game sucks move on. You got anything better to do? You waste an incredible amount of time here.
may I suggest applying some butthurt cream?
Ain't really butthurt about this game. Its a stat fag build game not my scene. I just don't understand your obsessive posting about it. I do think your a decent subtle troll though and it does get a rise out of some people.
 

deama

Prophet
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
4,409
Location
UK
I'd prefer if there was no player crafting at all.
But what I don't generally like is how the player character can be very strong AND be really good at crafting.
Yeah you need to spend points into crafting instead of combat skills, but the sacrifice just isn't painful enough.

Maybe in a more complicated RPG where you can hire mercenaries etc... the player character could invest into crafting whilst being heavily gimped on combat stats, but use the crafting skills to craft better gear for themselves AND the hirelings, that would work well.
But in a game like underrail, a single character controlled game, it's a bit much.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,852
No, but I do think unique items should get a boost to more closely compare to top shelf crafts.
 

Not.AI

Learned
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Messages
305
how come merchants are incapable of crafting things as good as a random guy who picked up chemistry 3 days ago?

This, of course, is the question in almost every game, is it not? In almost every game, the typical NPC can't even cook a fish or make tea, let alone craft craft a magical hat. They all NEED the urgent aid of a brave and skilled adventurer who happens to be the PC.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
how come merchants are incapable of crafting things as good as a random guy who picked up chemistry 3 days ago?

This, of course, is the question in almost every game, is it not? In almost every game, the typical NPC can't even cook a fish or make tea, let alone craft craft a magical hat. They all NEED the urgent aid of a brave and skilled adventurer who happens to be the PC.
There are plenty of RPGs where powerful items can be purchased in shops at steep prices.
 

Not.AI

Learned
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Messages
305
Have you ever SEEN the shopkeeper making those powerful items? The same shopkeepers are also the ones who buy those kinds of items from the PC at the best prices!

THE CURRENT THEORY: They were all bought from other PCs; the most powerful shopkeeper NPCs in most games can't craft shit either...
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Have you ever SEEN the shopkeeper making those powerful items? The same shopkeepers are also the ones who buy those kinds of items from the PC at the best prices!

THE CURRENT THEORY: They were all bought; the most powerful shopkeepers in most games can't craft shit either...
I support games that properly implement capitalism.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,674
q140(perhaps higher?) assembled items can be found in shops with mercantile. Problem is lack of feats that are put into them(like 5% crit chance for daggers) and that specific optional parts are never added.

Perhaps better approach would be if crafting allows you to mod your weapon, over creating one from scratch
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,878
The real question is why the PC can trivially become a better crafter than anyone else in the game world.
The answer is because it's a poorly thought out game world designed purely based on balance concerns with zero regard for any type of world building.
Guy you unemployed? Whats up with shitting up every underrail thread with your retarded hot takes? Game sucks move on. You got anything better to do? You waste an incredible amount of time here.
Rusty has been unusually ornery ever since his fellow countryman became president:


bfydo1.png
 
Unwanted

SunKing

He/Him
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Nov 23, 2022
Messages
129
Location
Mars
Codex Year of the Donut
The real question is why the PC can trivially become a better crafter than anyone else in the game world.
The answer is because it's a poorly thought out game world designed purely based on balance concerns with zero regard for any type of world building.
Guy you unemployed? Whats up with shitting up every underrail thread with your retarded hot takes? Game sucks move on. You got anything better to do? You waste an incredible amount of time here.
Rusty has been unusually ornery ever since his fellow countryman became president:


bfydo1.png
Its pretty clear he is a welfare queen so he should be happy to get more government cheese from Uncle Sugar.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
The real question is why the PC can trivially become a better crafter than anyone else in the game world.
The answer is because it's a poorly thought out game world designed purely based on balance concerns with zero regard for any type of world building.
Guy you unemployed? Whats up with shitting up every underrail thread with your retarded hot takes? Game sucks move on. You got anything better to do? You waste an incredible amount of time here.
Rusty has been unusually ornery ever since his fellow countryman became president:


bfydo1.png
Its pretty clear he is a welfare queen so he should be happy to get more government cheese from Uncle Sugar.
Absolutely seething because someone shat on a terrible game.
 

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