Simple engine question

[n0wh3r3]

Some months ago I started brainstorming for my game development project, that started as a funny learning-exercise to improve my Python skills. Godot engine would have been my choice since the language should be very Python friendly. It would have been a barebones text-based crpg with basic ASCII art.
Now my situation has changed and I am more leaning towards experimenting with something more user friendly like RPG Maker or SRPG Studio. My question is the following: is learning JavaScript (useful for both) and HTML/CSS (for RPG Maker overall look of the game) worth the time or are those engine too limited to get something out of it?

Obviously there are many noteworthy examples of far more than good games made with both engines (e.g. To the Moon, Symphony of War), but last time I had an identity check I wasn't some kind of genius developer that can breed an acclaimed indie-gem. So yeah, I wanna know what you Codexers think about this.

Also how wide is the choice in terms of community plugins and such? Will it enable anybody to get something out of the engines even without great coding skills?

I am counting on your answers!

 

[what am i doing]

RPG Maker if you want to make a video game and be successful.
Godot if you're a FOSS cultist.

 

[n0wh3r3]

RPG Maker if you want to make a video game and be successful.
Godot if you're a FOSS cultist.

This gave me a genuine laugh. Thanks! It has been a while...

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Javascript is not a language for gamedev. Also if you have to ask instead of doing your own research, you won't go far.

 

[Tyranicon]

I wanna know what you Codexers think about this.

I'm really familiar with RPGmaker but not SRPG studio. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

Otherwise, it's a very easy to use but very limited engine that's great for prototyping small ideas. If you want to make a pixel art walking simulator, it's perfect. If you want to make anything that involves gameplay besides what's included, it's awful.

 

[Moaning_Clock]

Use Godot. The knowledge you get is very useful for following projects. You can force RPG Maker to do more but why force something if you can have it more simply.

 

[n0wh3r3]

I wanna know what you Codexers think about this.

I'm really familiar with RPGmaker but not SRPG studio. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

Otherwise, it's a very easy to use but very limited engine that's great for prototyping small ideas. If you want to make a pixel art walking simulator, it's perfect. If you want to make anything that involves gameplay besides what's included, it's awful.

I could have many questions but I'm not going to ask you all of them in one post, is that ok?
First: since you said you are very familiar with RPG Maker, do you have any recent experience where you evaluated the plugins and such? If so, when and how did you perceive its limitations? It is very obvious that RPG Maker or even SRPG Studio cannot compare with the freedom of the other game-development related choices. My impression was that now RPG Maker was in state where compromising wasn't that bad...

 

[n0wh3r3]

Use Godot. The knowledge you get is very useful for following projects. You can force RPG Maker to do more but why force something if you can have it more simply.

Do you mind me asking if you have prior experience with the options I presented?

 

[Moaning_Clock]

I made 4 games with Godot, tried making one with RPG Maker, never heard of SRPG Studio.

 

[Tyranicon]

I could have many questions but I'm not going to ask you all of them in one post, is that ok?
First: since you said you are very familiar with RPG Maker, do you have any recent experience where you evaluated the plugins and such? If so, when and how did you perceive its limitations? It is very obvious that RPG Maker or even SRPG Studio cannot compare with the freedom of the other game-development related choices. My impression was that now RPG Maker was in state where compromising wasn't that bad...

Sure. I should say I've since moved onto Unreal 5 but I spent about a decade messing with the various versions of RPGM, MV is the one I'm most familiar with and the advice below applies specifically for this version. I am very fond of the engine, but I'll shit on it a lot too.

I use plugins for RPGM extensively. There's a joke in the community for people who stack 800+ plugins into their frankenstein'ed engine and I'm one of them. Two of my games break the engine very heavily in this way.

If you have javascript knowledge, you can basically do anything in the engine with a lot of caveats.

Most of them revolve around the fact that the engine has hard and soft limitations.

One that's often not brought up is that the editor itself has lots of limitations. By the end of my time with the engine I was no longer using the tilemap editor, I had a convoluted scheme set up for sprites, maps had to be loaded in very differently, etc etc.

If you use plugins a lot, you'll run into compatibility issues all the time. This will vary from needing to reshuffle your plugin load, or bricking your project entirely. PRACTICE VERSION CONTROL.

3D is possible and one of my games is 3D. However, the popular plugin that makes it possible (it's like a work of mad genius) is not well understood outside of the dev who makes it and a few other high-level RPGM dudes. It takes a lot to learn.

Anything that changes the combat system significantly is a pain in the ass. I was using a grid-based combat system that was made by one guy, it got abandoned, and I had to rework a lot of it.

If you notice a trend, it's that plugins are made by very talented people, but that doesn't mean they're easy to use or customize.

At the end of the day, it's a simple and user-friendly 2d engine with FF-style combat. You can make it into a Stardew Valley clone or a FPS, I've personally seen both done.

But it's probably easier on another engine.

 

[Eisen]

I heard it's painful to make a customized game on RPG Maker

 

[n0wh3r3]

I made 4 games with Godot, tried making one with RPG Maker, never heard of SRPG Studio.

What does it mean you tried make one with RPG Maker?

 

[n0wh3r3]

I could have many questions but I'm not going to ask you all of them in one post, is that ok?
First: since you said you are very familiar with RPG Maker, do you have any recent experience where you evaluated the plugins and such? If so, when and how did you perceive its limitations? It is very obvious that RPG Maker or even SRPG Studio cannot compare with the freedom of the other game-development related choices. My impression was that now RPG Maker was in state where compromising wasn't that bad...

Sure. I should say I've since moved onto Unreal 5 but I spent about a decade messing with the various versions of RPGM, MV is the one I'm most familiar with and the advice below applies specifically for this version. I am very fond of the engine, but I'll shit on it a lot too.

I use plugins for RPGM extensively. There's a joke in the community for people who stack 800+ plugins into their frankenstein'ed engine and I'm one of them. Two of my games break the engine very heavily in this way.

If you have javascript knowledge, you can basically do anything in the engine with a lot of caveats.

Most of them revolve around the fact that the engine has hard and soft limitations.

One that's often not brought up is that the editor itself has lots of limitations. By the end of my time with the engine I was no longer using the tilemap editor, I had a convoluted scheme set up for sprites, maps had to be loaded in very differently, etc etc.

If you use plugins a lot, you'll run into compatibility issues all the time. This will vary from needing to reshuffle your plugin load, or bricking your project entirely. PRACTICE VERSION CONTROL.

3D is possible and one of my games is 3D. However, the popular plugin that makes it possible (it's like a work of mad genius) is not well understood outside of the dev who makes it and a few other high-level RPGM dudes. It takes a lot to learn.

Anything that changes the combat system significantly is a pain in the ass. I was using a grid-based combat system that was made by one guy, it got abandoned, and I had to rework a lot of it.

If you notice a trend, it's that plugins are made by very talented people, but that doesn't mean they're easy to use or customize.

At the end of the day, it's a simple and user-friendly 2d engine with FF-style combat. You can make it into a Stardew Valley clone or a FPS, I've personally seen both done.

But it's probably easier on another engine.

Oh I just noticed you are the creator behind Memoirs of a Battle Brothel. Congrats! And also that Vampire game that I really wanted to be funded but... Will you keep working on it? IIRC you said that would have been your attempt at the best crpg ever, even better than Planescape: Torment! Or is my memory fooling me? I would love to see it finished after such a bold statement
I was also just browsing the Steam page for Baldr Squid the other day...

So at the end of the day, talking about the most comfortable way to craft your own game, you think it would be far more easier to use anything other than RPGM ? I am just talking about ease of usage. Mind you, I am not lazy or anything like that. Sadly, I am just at a point in my life where I need to try to avoid any kind of unnecessary stress or discomfort. I don't even know if I will ever be able to get something out of these game-development ramblings/ideas of mine. So that...

And besides the engine matter, have you any other advice for game-development in general?

 

[Moaning_Clock]

What does it mean you tried make one with RPG Maker?

Tried making a simple game and abandoned it. No deep knowledge.

 

[Tyranicon]

Oh I just noticed you are the creator behind Memoirs of a Battle Brothel. Congrats! And also that Vampire game that I really wanted to be funded but... Will you keep working on it? IIRC you said that would have been your attempt at the best crpg ever, even better than Planescape: Torment! Or is my memory fooling me? I would love to see it finished after such a bold statement
I was also just browsing the Steam page for Baldr Squid the other day...

So at the end of the day, talking about the most comfortable way to craft your own game, you think it would be far more easier to use anything other than RPGM ? I am just talking about ease of usage. Mind you, I am not lazy or anything like that. Sadly, I am just at a point in my life where I need to try to avoid any kind of unnecessary stress or discomfort. I don't even know if I will ever be able to get something out of these game-development ramblings/ideas of mine. So that...

And besides the engine matter, have you any other advice for game-development in general?

I think what I said is I'll try to make the best game I can, not better than PS:T. That's a pretty high bar.

But I had my start with RPGmaker and I definitely recommend it to people who lack coding knowledge or just want to prototype something very quick. You can always do what I did and move onto a more flexible engine later on.

I'm not really successful enough to have advice for general game development. If you're a hobbyist with no desire for commercial releases, do whatever you want. It's good fun and a great hobby.

If you intend to go commercial eventually, especially as a solo, it's hard. Go into it knowing that your chances of success are very small.

You'll end up googling questions a lot. Join the official RPGMaker forums if you are interested in the engine. They're very helpful.

 

[n0wh3r3]

Update: I am 84% settled for RPG Maker MZ. Awaiting your insults and similia. That's the ultimate reason I am writing this post.

 

[Krice]

It doesn't matter if it's RPG maker or Godot, or whatever. If it works for the game project it's way smarter than trying to create your own engine. I've heard that some of the engines have limits what you can do, but should be ok for small games. Programming languages to create games are mostly C/C++ and maybe C#, it again depends what you are trying to do, how much the game requires. Other languages are ok I guess, but they are often slower than C/C++, which can be a surprise in the middle of the project when you realize it's too slow and you need to restart programming in C/C++ anyway.

 

[n0wh3r3]

Anyway I would strongly encourage all of you readers to even, at least, try/begin to design/develop your own game. It can be a very pleasurable, self-improving thing to do! Also, haven't you had enough of not been able to play a game that is just as you would have made it?

 

[Gahbreeil]

Update: I am 84% settled for RPG Maker MZ. Awaiting your insults and similia. That's the ultimate reason I am writing this post.

Don't buy it! If you don't have your own assets, both sound and graphics, it's a waste of money, tbh. Cubicle Quest is apparently the most successful game made with the assets MZ comes prepackaged with.

 

[Eldrin]

Check out 'Wolf RPG Editor', from a player perspective it feels superior to RPG Maker. From a developer perspective, I've heard it depends on the person.

It's free, and maybe you're gonna like it.

 

[gooseman]

Other languages are ok I guess, but they are often slower than C/C++, which can be a surprise in the middle of the project when you realize it's too slow and you need to restart programming in C/C++ anyway.

I wouldn't worry about performance. The speed differences between compiled languages are mostly irrelevant (more so for smaller, simpler projects). Other languages will likely be faster to work with and more comfortable to use. If performance tanks, optimize the bottlenecks. If you've hit a limit with the language, you don't have to rewrite the entire game, just the bottlenecks, in faster languages (most languages have c interop). Do you think factorio runs so well simply because it uses c++? No, it's because devs know their shit and optimize it heavily. A novice would be more likely to shoot himself in the foot than make a performant game. I'm not saying neglect performance and make games that run like shit, but premature optimization will slow development down (and likely reduce your enjoyment of the process). As long as you're not using languages that really aren't meant for performant apps, like python/javascript, you're fine. Even those can be alright for simpler games, like Renpy, the VN engine made in python.
Choose what supports libraries/frameworks/engines you work with. Choose what has best IDE support. Choose what's comfortable for you.
As for the engine, try both, see which one you like more. RPG maker probably has a trial, godot is free. I'd personally go with godot for flexibility.
Good luck.

 

[Krice]

The speed differences between compiled languages are mostly irrelevant

I hate to continue this debate, but it's not irrelevant when sometimes the speed difference is x times slower than C, where x can be anything from 2 to infinity. However it depends on how much the game is trying to do and how much you can use parallel computing. I have had performance problems in C++ so I can imagine those same things in slower languages would be even worse. I think this is the reason why C and C++ are still used so widely, even though we have much better languages.

 

[n0wh3r3]

Update: I am 84% settled for RPG Maker MZ. Awaiting your insults and similia. That's the ultimate reason I am writing this post.

Don't buy it! If you don't have your own assets, both sound and graphics, it's a waste of money, tbh. Cubicle Quest is apparently the most successful game made with the assets MZ comes prepackaged with.

I am gonna create my own assets.

Check out 'Wolf RPG Editor', from a player perspective it feels superior to RPG Maker. From a developer perspective, I've heard it depends on the person.

It's free, and maybe you're gonna like it.

Frankly I don't see any advantages in using that instead of RPG Maker, but I just had a quick look. Are you aware that support ended in 2019? That doesn't sound good at all... What is your perspective on this engine in particular?

Other languages are ok I guess, but they are often slower than C/C++, which can be a surprise in the middle of the project when you realize it's too slow and you need to restart programming in C/C++ anyway.

I wouldn't worry about performance. The speed differences between compiled languages are mostly irrelevant (more so for smaller, simpler projects). Other languages will likely be faster to work with and more comfortable to use. If performance tanks, optimize the bottlenecks. If you've hit a limit with the language, you don't have to rewrite the entire game, just the bottlenecks, in faster languages (most languages have c interop). Do you think factorio runs so well simply because it uses c++? No, it's because devs know their shit and optimize it heavily. A novice would be more likely to shoot himself in the foot than make a performant game. I'm not saying neglect performance and make games that run like shit, but premature optimization will slow development down (and likely reduce your enjoyment of the process). As long as you're not using languages that really aren't meant for performant apps, like python/javascript, you're fine. Even those can be alright for simpler games, like Renpy, the VN engine made in python.
Choose what supports libraries/frameworks/engines you work with. Choose what has best IDE support. Choose what's comfortable for you.
As for the engine, try both, see which one you like more. RPG maker probably has a trial, godot is free. I'd personally go with godot for flexibility.
Good luck.

I am inches away from making RPG Maker MZ my final choice. I have already begun documentation and even tileset design. Godot is still installed on my device. But there's practically no confrontation between the two, just imagine any not tech-savy person running each engine: which one would be more likely to get out something from?
I nearly a novice at coding, but willing to learn. The thing is that using RPG Maker I can get to an acceptable project-state meanwhile learning Javascript, while Godot needs me to master its proprietary language to use it... It is my first gaming project ever. I need to approach it with ease.

 

[gooseman]

Just go with rpgmaker then, it's ok for a first time game or something simple.

 

[n0wh3r3]

Just go with rpgmaker then, it's ok for a first time game or something simple.

I still haven't understand where the borders of this "simplicity" are. Theoretically you can customize it with JS, and look what Dancing Dragons has done with Symphony of War... That one was made with VX or ACE IIRC.