Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[Broseph]

Dongguard is essentially Bethesda aping Bioware. It's p. bad but it at least has some halfway decent dungeon crawling. Vampire powers are weak and underwhelming.

 

[Jick Magger]

Yeah, even the most basic steel crossbow is absurdly powerful in the game. Guess you could try to make the 'realism' argument (which is five flavours of bullshit), but that doesn't stop it from completely fucking up whatever semblance of balance early game has.

 

[Turjan]

I was searching where the DLC might come from, and it looks, it was some kind of update error some time in September. It's not in my DLC list, though it's there. Oh well, gift horse and all that...

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Wait, what? I thought that by "I noticed that I have Dawnguard installed. Never bought any DLC" you meant that you never bought DLC of any kind before buying the GOTY edition without realizing it. You mean it just showed up out of nowhere? An update error shouldn't give you a free DLC in any case. Did you check your data folder for "Dawnguard.bsa" and "Dawnguard.esm" to see if you really have it, or if it's just a fuck-up from some mod you installed that required Dawnguard?

 

[Turjan]

There's indeed a Dawnguard.bsa (more than 1GB) and a Dawnguard.esm file in my Skyrim folder. My Steam account says I don't own any DLC for the game. So I went and searched for this on the internet. I learned that, sometime in September, someone accidentally added the Dawnguard DLC to every Steam user account, regardless whether you owned Skyrim or not. This error was reverted as soon as it was discovered. However, if you had vanilla Skyrim installed and your computer was on during that time, the autoupdate downloaded the DLC and put it into your Steam folder. Or so the story goes.

I guess my computer must have been on during that glitch, and I didn't notice at that time.

 

[Zewp]

I don't remember Oblivion that much, I only remember not criticizing it and liking it, that would probably change were I to play it today, so I can't comment much. What I remember was that the beginning wasn't as railroaded as Skyrim's and the graphics were better at the time it was released, it was beautiful, at least the nature and landscape.

"I can't remember Oblivion much, but that didn't stop me from making a massive post about how it's better than Skyrim."

 

[Commissar Draco]

"Skyrim belongs to the Nords!"

"Err, Lydia...those bandits are Nords too. And I'm an Imperial...."

Skyrim belongs to Russia Imperium, and they're Breton insurgents who wants to separate from both; Skyrim is much more life like than Disneyland England Cyrodill from Oblivion.

 

[Cadmus]

I don't remember Oblivion that much, I only remember not criticizing it and liking it, that would probably change were I to play it today, so I can't comment much. What I remember was that the beginning wasn't as railroaded as Skyrim's and the graphics were better at the time it was released, it was beautiful, at least the nature and landscape.

"I can't remember Oblivion much, but that didn't stop me from making a massive post about how it's better than Skyrim."

Dud I didn't really mean to say much about how Skyrim is worse than Oblivion although I guess it could have sounded like that, after the initial tidbit with the intro, I only wanted to say what I didn't like about Skyrim, with no relation to Oblivion.

My points stand on their own instead of as a comparison to Oblivion. Or were meant to, I'm an idiot for liking a game in my teens, so who knows.

Draq you are wrong about the graphics, the game was stunningly beautiful on release, it was the "next gen awesome graphics" title as you surely remember and while the game journalist retards praise of the game is almost irrelevant, because of how corrupt and shit they are, I have nothing else to prove the point than ask what games did the open world filled with fucking grass and trees and ponds and lakes and stupid bees you can catch before Oblivion.
The grass particularly was a new thing in the quantity they presented it.

Yeah, the faces are fucking horrible, the art direction is unfocused, but it's a hiking simulator and there wasn't anything as pretty for hiking before that.

And don't fucking misinterpret this as me saying that Skyrim is worse looking, it's obviously better looking with better art direction, the point is that at the time of its release Skyrim looked like a better Oblivion while Oblivion was beautiful on release.

Now both of these games look like shit anyway. And I don't mean to say that Oblivion is better cuz it was pretty, I only wanna point out that they put some effort into the graphics where they barely bothered with Skyrim.

 

[dryan]

The Dark Brotherhood questline was considerably better in Oblivion. There I said it.

 

[Jick Magger]

The Dark Brotherhood questline was considerably better in Oblivion. There I said it.

That's not really saying much, all the questlines in Skyrim were shit, or at the very least extremely bland and boring.

They somehow managed to make assassinating the emperor, becoming the head of a centuries-long warrior's guild, the head of the mages guild, and dragon Jesus feel fucking mundane.

 

[dryan]

The Dark Brotherhood questline was considerably better in Oblivion. There I said it.

That's not really saying much, all the questlines in Skyrim were shit, or at the very least extremely bland and boring.

They somehow managed to make assassinating the emperor, becoming the head of a centuries-long warrior's guild, the head of the mages guild, and dragon Jesus feel fucking mundane.

It blew my mind. "Wow I just killed the emperor, and it didn't change anything".

 

[DraQ]

Kinda. The jump in difficulty does make it more interesting, but that goes for any game. It doesn't so much "fix" the game as it "unfucks" the more boneheaded design decisions from vanilla.

The main problem is that it can't unfuck the game simply being BSB.

It's like looking after a brain-dead patient. Regardless of your skill, effort and advancement in medicine there is simply nothing you can actually do for them.

OTOH Skyrim has tons of shit that needs fixing *badly*, but it's interesting enough on its own to actually make those fixes worthwhile.

The Dark Brotherhood questline was considerably better in Oblivion. There I said it.

Perhaps, too bad that the DB itself was just a bunch of edgy retards.
As for the questline, it still forced you to proudly carry forth the idiot ball without being able to do anything about it.

I hadn't looked at Skyrim in ages, and I'm probably late to the party, but when I fired up the game, I noticed that I have Dawnguard installed. Never bought any DLC. Let's see how this one fucks up the game.

Dawnguard is the most excellent DLC because it allows you to install Requiem.

 

[theSavant]

The Dark Brotherhood questline was considerably better in Oblivion. There I said it.

That's not really saying much, all the questlines in Skyrim were shit, or at the very least extremely bland and boring.

They somehow managed to make assassinating the emperor, becoming the head of a centuries-long warrior's guild, the head of the mages guild, and dragon Jesus feel fucking mundane.

It blew my mind. "Wow I just killed the emperor, and it didn't change anything".

But that's close to reality. If you kill the president nothing will change, except a new puppet taking his position. For the common people living their life... nothing changes.

 

[DraQ]

Draq you are wrong about the graphics, the game was stunningly beautiful on release, it was the "next gen awesome graphics" title

Yes, it was *hailed* as such, too bad it didn't actually help it *look* good.

I only wanna point out that they put some effort into the graphics where they barely bothered with Skyrim.

 

[Cadmus]

Draq you are wrong about the graphics, the game was stunningly beautiful on release, it was the "next gen awesome graphics" title

Yes, it was *hailed* as such, too bad it didn't actually help it *look* good.

I only wanna point out that they put some effort into the graphics where they barely bothered with Skyrim.

Well then, show me some preceding games with as pretty environment as Oblivion's.
Sure they put some effort into making it look nice, they remade their shitty engine far more than they did for Skyrim.
I can only think of Gothic 2 as being a nice open world as Oblivion's but it's not as pretty looking (forests and meadows in Oblivion are better than Gothic's)
Nobody had really gone through so much trouble with vegetation and nature before.

That doesn't mean it isn't a stupid game or that it holds up today, but at the time it was unprecedented.

 

[Lemming42]

Dawnguard starts off boring and gets worse, the Soul Cairn was almost the point of quitting for me. But then there's the weird Falmer underground city and the Snow Elves, which is atmospheric and poses (possibly the game's only) interesting addition to the lore, with the Falmer being the result of the Snow Elves torture at the hands of the Dwemer. Unless that was mentioned in a game prior to Skyrim, I don't remember. Then you have to go back to killing billions of them anyway about 5 minutes later so nothing changes.

There's also the big cinematic scene at the end, right before you get Auriel's bow. The

Spoiler

death of the other Snow Elf guy

was actually quite well done, although I did laugh at the part where the Dragonborn falls to the floor and you get an extreme Saving-Private-Ryan-Style motion blur and close up of your hands clawing along the floor.

Needless to say the ending blows. Harkon's a loser, the battle sucks and the out-of-nowhere "I LOVE SERANAAAAA YOU'LL NEVER TAKE HER FROM ME" shit was stupid. Being able to go back into the Soul Cairn (not that anyone would ever want to) and get Serana's mother to return to the castle was kinda cool, though, since normally in a Bethesda game when you're done with a quest it's never mentioned again and everyone acts like it never happened (see that android quest from Fallout 3 for the worst example of all time).

Yeah, the faces are fucking horrible, the art direction is unfocused, but it's a hiking simulator and there wasn't anything as pretty for hiking before that.

Actually, I think Morrowind looks better than Oblivion. The only really significant fault with Morrowind's graphics is the hilariously low draw distance, but that can be altered with mods. Other than that, the world and NPC design has lots of character and sets a definite mood, rather than Oblivion which relies on BLOOM and HDR and INCREDIBLE WATER EFFECTS which looked technically impressive in 2006. Today, as you said, it looks shit. More like a parody of games that over-rely on crap visual effects than an actual game itself. Skyrim makes a good attempt at a consistent/believable looking world and largely succeeds, but it doesn't have the same quality as Morrowind. Although the nights look really good in Skyrim, there's that I guess.

Well then, show me some preceding games with as pretty environment as Oblivion's.

There's quite a lot. I don't really know how to explain it. Look at a game like Mount & Blade - shitty on a technical level with its 800x600 skyboxes with JPEG artifacts, low poly models for literally everything, bad textures and no fancy effects to speak of. Despite all this, it manages to look really good at times, in a picturesque sort of way. Oblivion was the opposite - technically impressive, graphically detailed with a lot of cinematic stuff, but it never actually managed to look convincingly good.

 

[sea]

Draq you are wrong about the graphics, the game was stunningly beautiful on release, it was the "next gen awesome graphics" title as you surely remember and while the game journalist retards praise of the game is almost irrelevant, because of how corrupt and shit they are, I have nothing else to prove the point than ask what games did the open world filled with fucking grass and trees and ponds and lakes and stupid bees you can catch before Oblivion.
The grass particularly was a new thing in the quantity they presented it.

I'm not really seeing it.

Kinda barren.

Still no.

Bonus video:

 

[Cadmus]

Well, it's ok, as I said it doesn't hold up all that much plus you linked a retarded screen from PS3 with its worse textures while showing stuff in a distance which the game famously sucks at generating (same as every other goddamn game released at that time and probably since).

I didn't want to defend it with my blood, so if you think it looked like shit, good for you, maybe you're right.

Hey another funny thing, I enjoyed the music in all 3 games, how's that? I think people hate it now?

 

[Lemming42]

I don't remember them looking this expressive. I remember everyone having this braindead gaping stare, sometimes their eyebrows would move if you stabbed them in the face. I'm ultra-impressed by this screenshot.

 

[sea]

Well, it's ok, as I said it doesn't hold up all that much plus you linked a retarded screen from PS3 with its worse textures while showing stuff in a distance which the game famously sucks at generating (same as every other goddamn game released at that time and probably since).

I didn't want to defend it with my blood, so if you think it looked like shit, good for you, maybe you're right.

Hey another funny thing, I enjoyed the music in all 3 games, how's that? I think people hate it now?

Oblivion in still scenes, and on the PC, tends to occasionally look quite pretty, though artistically rather mundane. But when you get NPCs and animation, special effects, etc. involved it tends to fall apart and just look... weird, floaty and cheap, like a game with a fraction of the budget from 2003. It really hasn't aged well at all.

As for textures etc., the PC version doesn't look that much better save for resolution. The draw distance and those distant "mud" textures are no less obvious on it. I played it recently and was really surprised at how poorly it held up compared to my memories - in my mind I had the exact same image of gorgeous, sprawling landscapes and it didn't really look that way in practice anymore. Maybe that's the difference playing modded vs. unmodded.

That said I think Oblivion has fantastic music. I think I like it more than Morrowind's soundtrack (though it's close).

 

[Cadmus]

I don't remember them looking this expressive. I remember everyone having this braindead gaping stare, sometimes their eyebrows would move if you stabbed them in the face. I'm ultra-impressed by this screenshot.

Their mouth is a line that bends upwards and downwards, that's the emotion.

Sea that fucking goddamn hideous screenshot of the city is not representative of what the game looked like on PC, I'm pretty sure of it.
Hey how about you try to find a screenshot you can say looks good (not bugged with half loaded textures on console that has shit memory) and representative of the game and then on that show how shitty it is.

Well, it's ok, as I said it doesn't hold up all that much plus you linked a retarded screen from PS3 with its worse textures while showing stuff in a distance which the game famously sucks at generating (same as every other goddamn game released at that time and probably since).

I didn't want to defend it with my blood, so if you think it looked like shit, good for you, maybe you're right.

Hey another funny thing, I enjoyed the music in all 3 games, how's that? I think people hate it now?

Oblivion in still scenes, and on the PC, tends to occasionally look quite pretty, though artistically rather mundane. But when you get NPCs and animation, special effects, etc. involved it tends to fall apart and just look... weird, floaty and cheap, like a game with a fraction of the budget from 2003. It really hasn't aged well at all.

As for textures etc., the PC version doesn't look that much better save for resolution. The draw distance and those distant "mud" textures are no less obvious on it.

That said I think Oblivion has fantastic music. I think I like it more than Morrowind's soundtrack (though it's close).

I agree, all animations, characters, items anything that moves or is supposed to resemble living things and their behaviour is disgusting in gamebryo.
My point was that the hiking part was pretty.

 

[sea]

Oblivion at its best:

Still, I am not seeing too much in the way of art direction, and in practice the world feels very static (little to no wildlife, weather, wind, etc.). And to be fair, 90% of the detail there is in the grass. When you get out into the more open areas with larger view distance the illusion fades off.

Not really trying to criticize the game unfairly, sometimes it does look really good.

 

[Cadmus]

Yes, and as I said, at the time this was amazing and nobody had put so much detail into the landscapes and environment. The thing is, the nature doesn't really need an art direction as it's trying to approach the highest possible graphical fidelity. That's of course the problem with the rest of the game because it fails at getting anything else than landscapes look good without any art direction.

But the hiking was a huge part of the game, you'd spend hours walking around in forests and looking at things, precisely because it was new.

 

[Lemming42]

Yes, and as I said, at the time this was amazing and nobody had put so much detail into the landscapes and environment. The thing is, the nature doesn't really need an art direction as it's trying to approach the highest possible graphical fidelity. That's of course the problem with the rest of the game because it fails at getting anything else than landscapes look good without any art direction.

Well, if this was "Forest Adventure Simulator" then I agree that the visuals would be pretty ace, but this is meant to be Cyrodiil, the big jungle province of Tamriel. I can't speak for anyone else but part of the reason I think it looks shitty is because of how it doesn't portray Cyrodiil properly. From Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st Edition:

It is the largest region of the continent, and most is endless jungle. Its center, the grassland of theNibenay Valley, is enclosed by an equatorial rain forest and broken up by rivers. As one travels south along these rivers, the more subtropical it becomes, until finally the land gives way to the swamps of Argonia and the placid waters of the Topal Bay. The elevation rises gradually to the west and sharply to the north. Between its western coast and its central valley there are all manner of deciduous forest and mangroves, becoming sparser towards the ocean. The western coast is a wet-dry area, and from Rihad border to Anvil to the northernmost Valenwood villages forest fires are common in summer. There are a few major roads to the west, river paths to the north, and even a canopy tunnel to the Velothi Mountains, but most of Cyrodiil is a river-based society surrounded by jungle.

 

[Lancehead]

Dawnguard starts off boring and gets worse, the Soul Cairn was almost the point of quitting for me. But then there's the weird Falmer underground city and the Snow Elves, which is atmospheric and poses (possibly the game's only) interesting addition to the lore, with the Falmer being the result of the Snow Elves torture at the hands of the Dwemer. Unless that was mentioned in a game prior to Skyrim, I don't remember. Then you have to go back to killing billions of them anyway about 5 minutes later so nothing changes.

The existence of Snow Elves/Falmer is nothing new; they're mentioned in PGE 1st Ed. Their history with Dwemer is Skyrim's addition.