Skyrim's Level Scaling is pretty good!

[DalekFlay]

It's so improved over Oblivion I could see thinking it's "good" on some level upon cursory inspection. It's not really good compared to how it SHOULD be though.

 

[Wayward Son]

Don't you kill an actual dragon being level 1 or 2 during the tutorial quest?

Umm, no? The tutorial is you running from a dragon. Admittedly you do kill a dragon early on, about 1 hour into the story depending on your pace at about level 2-3, with seven to eight other people helping you.

 

[Delterius]

its been 8 years since skyrim and we still don't have new games to troll the forum with

 

[Darth Canoli]

Hear me out. I'm watching my pops play Skyrim Special Edition for the Xbox One and I didn't realize the level scaling was actually quite competent. Here's what I saw.

At level 5, a Spriggan will kill you no questions asked, as will a Sabre Cat and many other enemies. Dragons are difficult. At level 10, Spriggans and Sabre Cats can be handled. But Falmer will still mess you up, as will vampires and of course frost trolls (all which still exist in the world at level 10.) Dangerous types of Draugr will mess you up and be impossible to kill, with Deathlords popping up even at level 10.

The game is scaled but you don't really notice it for awhile. Dangerous and even impossible enemies still exist in the world depending on what hole you peek your head into, you can die and you will if you encounter the wrong set of beasties. Compare that to Oblivion where everything just matched your level at all times, it really is an enhanced version of level scaling. I like it.

Skyrim in all is worth going back to with the Special Edition and playing again. It's got a lot going for it and things I didn't realize were cool when I played in 2011.

Congratulations!

You've reached two digits retarded ratings for a single post.

Spoiler

On the other hand, it's probably the 100th time you did it ...

 

[DalekFlay]

Umm, no? The tutorial is you running from a dragon. Admittedly you do kill a dragon early on, about 1 hour into the story depending on your pace at about level 2-3, with seven to eight other people helping you.

And that fight could come much later, if you don't follow the main quest right off the bat. My first playthrough I was probably 10+ hours in when I did that. On harder modes it's a challenging fight at low levels too, relatively.

 

[Wayward Son]

Umm, no? The tutorial is you running from a dragon. Admittedly you do kill a dragon early on, about 1 hour into the story depending on your pace at about level 2-3, with seven to eight other people helping you.

And that fight could come much later, if you don't follow the main quest right off the bat. My first playthrough I was probably 10+ hours in when I did that. On harder modes it's a challenging fight at low levels too, relatively.

Yeah, my estimate was going off the idea that you’d do as you were told up to the end of Dragon Rising, which was/is how I usually played/play it.

 

[cretin]

another hit from this cock jockey moron

 

[DraQ]

Don't you kill an actual dragon being level 1 or 2 during the tutorial quest?

Umm, no? The tutorial is you running from a dragon. Admittedly you do kill a dragon early on, about 1 hour into the story depending on your pace at about level 2-3, with seven to eight other people helping you.

Including jarl's housecarl.

 

[Shadenuat]

Skyrim did it better than Oblivion at least.

Funny enough Morrowind had level scaling and different attributes for same NPCs but I don't think many people really noticed it. Instead it would spawn creatures depending on your level from some list, but these creatures themselves had static power levels (spawned dremora was more or the same dremora you'd meet in some daedric ruin), and never completely replaced low level creatures. Also loot wasn't scaled except containers in some dungeons I think, neither was NPC loot or armor and such. However a bandit cave would still spawn things from some shit bandit cave list, never daedric weapons ala Dumblivion.

U d only begin noticing all that when suddenly a daedroth or golden saint jumps on u out of nowhere where they really shouldn't be.

Also I think it used level scaling to consistently keep the gap between player and some creatures like Vivec or 1000 yo sorcerer without making these creatures literally immortal.

 

[DraQ]

Funny enough Morrowind had level scaling and different attributes for same NPCs but I don't think many people really noticed it.

Any examples? The only one of the top of my head is Gedna Relvel from Tribunal.
Everything else could have been leveled, but not scaled.

U d only begin noticing all that when suddenly a daedroth or golden saint jumps on u out of nowhere where they really shouldn't be.

Additionally complicated by the fact that you could find a GS in some places at lvl1.

Level scaling sucks, but Morrowind's has less of it than pretty much everything else that has leveled lists.

The only case where level scaling does make sense is when something or someone is sent specifically after you.

 

[Shadenuat]

I remember finding different references and stats for creatures in editor but I worked with it more than 10 years ago.
Gedna Revel yeah, perhaps also the funny lucky dude, goblins in sewers and something in Bloodmoon?

The only case where level scaling does make sense is when something or someone is sent specifically after you.

Oh right. Assassins from Tribunal definitely scale I think.

 

[DraQ]

I remember finding different references and stats for creatures in editor but I worked with it more than 10 years ago.
Gedna Revel yeah, perhaps also the funny lucky dude, goblins in sewers and something in Bloodmoon?

The only case where level scaling does make sense is when something or someone is sent specifically after you.

Oh right. Assassins from Tribunal definitely scale I think.

Well, they are never the same guys, aren't they?

I think they use an ordinary leveled list.

 

[Shadenuat]

They also give you tens of thousands of gold from their equipment
this is where some equipment scaling miiiight have been a good idea.

 

[Wayward Son]

They also give you tens of thousands of gold from their equipment
this is where some equipment scaling miiiight have been a good idea.

Or maybe just delaying the attempt until either a specific level or a point in the main story (perhaps about where you are declared Nerevarine?)

 

[Shadenuat]

Your progress through main story is not tied to you leveling up. Or even having high combat stats.

 

[thesheeep]

At level 5, a Spriggan will kill you no questions asked, as will a Sabre Cat and many other enemies. Dragons are difficult. At level 10, Spriggans and Sabre Cats can be handled. But Falmer will still mess you up, as will vampires and of course frost trolls (all which still exist in the world at level 10.) Dangerous types of Draugr will mess you up and be impossible to kill, with Deathlords popping up even at level 10.

Usually, I recommend people to play using Requiem, but if you are already challenged by vanilla Skyrim... maybe don't.
Everyone should play Enderal, though... what a great game. Making the best out of what Skyrim scripting can do. Sure, the combat is still left click spam until everything is dead without strategy, but the world is just so much more interesting.

And yes, the Skyrim level scaling IS less retarded than the Oblivion one, but that isn't exactly saying much.

 

[DraQ]

They also give you tens of thousands of gold from their equipment
this is where some equipment scaling miiiight have been a good idea.

Yeah, that was retarded, same with them coming after lvl1 PC.

They should have set trigger on reputation or MQ progress and gave lower level gear to lower level assassins.

Then again, Bethesda.
Bloodmoon was effectively Oblivion's prototype in regards to content - low effort copypasta everywhere.
It's a miracle how Dargonborn managed to stay true to BM dungeon layouts and other topography most of the time but actually make stuff interesting (mostly by breaking open new passages in those copyasted ruins and making most of the remaining ones inaccessible, replacing them with new ones uncovered by RM's death throes).

 

[Wayward Son]

Your progress through main story is not tied to you leveling up. Or even having high combat stats.

Not tied directly, but there’s a correlation between progress through the stories and being a higher level.

 

[Shadenuat]

It's a miracle how Dargonborn managed to stay true to BM dungeon layouts and other topography most of the time but actually make stuff interesting (mostly by breaking open new passages in those copyasted ruins and making most of the remaining ones inaccessible, replacing them with new ones uncovered by RM's death throes).

I think Bethesda just has a natural talent of turning islands into good rpgs. Fallout 4 is shit everywhere except island Morrowind-like fog shrouded DLC.

Your progress through main story is not tied to you leveling up. Or even having high combat stats.

Not tied directly, but there’s a correlation between progress through the stories and being a higher level.

Yeah but higher level doesn't mean you can easily dodge ebony darts on high difficulty.

I once played a priestess with 0 combat skills doing temple quests and got surprisingly far into the game and high level casting illusion and shit.

 

[DraQ]

It's a miracle how Dargonborn managed to stay true to BM dungeon layouts and other topography most of the time but actually make stuff interesting (mostly by breaking open new passages in those copyasted ruins and making most of the remaining ones inaccessible, replacing them with new ones uncovered by RM's death throes).

I think Bethesda just has a natural talent of turning islands into good rpgs. Fallout 4 is shit everywhere except island Morrowind-like fog shrouded DLC.

They really should have gone with IC-only Oblibians.

 

[Shadenuat]

Oh right I think people universally say Shivering Islands is best which came out of Oblivion and

isles

 

[Carrion]

The only case where level scaling does make sense is when something or someone is sent specifically after you.

I think there are some instances where you could make use of level-scaling, but preferably you'd achieve a similar effect using less primitive means. Oblivion deservedly got shat on because of its level-scaled bandits in full glass armor, but you could say that it would've been somewhat pointless for those guys to attack a level 1 scrub who's wearing shitty armor and is not likely to possess anything of great value — it's like a supervillain decided to rob a hot dog stand instead of a bank. On the other hand it would be suicidal for some hobo in rags to try to rob a PC that's basically a demigod. It does make some sense to tie certain random encounters into the player character's (power) level, but rather than spawning a high-level bandit instead of a low-level one, you could make the bandits exist in the game world from the start and adjust their behavior based on the PCs equipment and or reputation (or even level, if you really want to simplify). In many games it also makes sense to populate the game world with more dangerous enemies the further you get in the game, if they're tied to an antagonistic faction or some ancient evil that is continuously growing in power, although even then it'd probably be better to tie it into your progress in the main quest or even in-game time instead of something as arbitrary as the player's level.

Level-scaling only works as long as the player doesn't realize that it's there.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Morrowind has scaling. It's about the same as Skyrim, if not moreso even. Give Skyrim a shot, it's great and much better than the memes would have you believe.

 

[ironmask]

Morrowind did have some level scaling but no where near as bad as shitrim and oblivion, as already explained by Shadenuat.

 

[Beastro]

I think there are some instances where you could make use of level-scaling, but preferably you'd achieve a similar effect using less primitive means.

I could only see it working with a set plot heavy boss battle that is expected to be tough and the scaling it done to make sure the player can't out level the encounter and stomp over it, but that's not how it's ever used that I can think of.