slowpoke checking in: New Vegas

[tuluse]

Ah this thread turned terrible right quick.

It's not nearly as bad as I expected given the subject matter. Just wait until the GDers see this thread.

 

[Gozma]

Wait, Cook-Cook is a cook.
His weapon is a flamethrower - an obvious reference to the hearth
Cook-cook is a male housewife raping female soldiers and pimps
This bourgeois has been epatered comrade

 

[Zakhad]

Talking about the homosexuals, I think women in dangerous places should be rare in teh wastelands. A post-nuclear society would be very patriarchal, because women can make babies and men can't. I think Caesar's Legion makes a lot of sense in that aspect, too bad they made them treat the women like shit and other evul stuff.

Which should make homosexuals even rarer, and considered odd. Women who aren't hereto should be considered strange or even traitorous ("how dare you not to have babies bitch!").

Lesbians would probably have children regardless (whether voluntary or not).

That said, there are matriarchal primitive societies, so I see no reason why one couldn't exist in the wasteland.

True. The idea of homosexuals who don't fuck the opposite sex, ever, and remain childless/adopt children is very late 20th/21st century. Homosexuals in ancient societies usually kept it in the closet and had children.

The problem with matriarchal primitive societies is that the most basic hierarchy between persons is force. Men are stronger than Women. They also spend nine months in a almost-defenseless state to birth children, during which they require male protection. Matriarchal socities make more sense if they have acess to modern technology like firearms or contraceptives and possibly robots. Also, male combatants are superior, therefore they are the ones who tend to retain the monopoly of force. A matriarchic society is possible in a context of the Fallout Universe, but would require a good explanation as to why they were never overrun by Caesar's Legion wannabes or something.

That's a kind of defunct idea: with guns, women become just as tough as men. A pregnant woman can still shoot you in the face.

 

[Zakhad]

Talking about the homosexuals, I think women in dangerous places should be rare in teh wastelands. A post-nuclear society would be very patriarchal, because women can make babies and men can't. I think Caesar's Legion makes a lot of sense in that aspect, too bad they made them treat the women like shit and other evul stuff.

Which should make homosexuals even rarer, and considered odd. Women who aren't hereto should be considered strange or even traitorous ("how dare you not to have babies bitch!").

Not sure about homosexuals. The ancient world (often a pretty tough place) had loads of them.

And medieval nomad societies (Bedouin) had a fair amount, too, and they are basically the closest thing we've seen to a post-apocalyptic survival society.

 

[Zakhad]

There's also the fact women are simply less suited to be combatants. They lack the endurance, strength and agressivity of men. Even today, most countries with obligatory military service make it a man-only job, and even then, it is clear to anyone who does research that in the average, women are inferior in combat to men.

It's not clear that the research is yet possible, given that the sample space is so low. That is, not enough countries have been involved in full on wars with women in the front lines. The best we have is extrapolations from other data, and anecdotal evidence.

The anecdotes suggest women can fight as well as men, as seen in Russia's resistance against the Nazi invasion, and similar female "freedom fighters" that have popped up in various countries.

But your argument would seem to be based on female strength/endurance. the former might be true: the average woman is less strong than the average man. But the latter is not: women have a much higher natural pain threshold (due to the necessity of childbirth), and are just as capable of becoming long distance runners, etc. So there they have an advantage, or are at least equal.

A good analogy is sport. the female leagues in say, Basketball or Soccer/football tend to be much slower than their male equivalents. but this just means that at the edge of the curve, men have the advantage. A female Taekwando expert would easily break me, despite my "natural advantage" in strength: they might struggle against a male expert, but they are still capable of becoming stronger than 90% of men, being that people are lazy and soft, and likely will be after the bombs drop, too. A female professional footballer would beat most men, and outrun them, too. So unless the apocalypse makes everyone push themselves to the very edge of the curve, it is still highly likely that most people will be less than perfect, and women who strive to be good soldiers will outperform men who try to rely on their natural strength.

It's easy to believe that patriarchies are natural when looking at history, but this is not the case. If we use this line of argument (it happened so it happened necessarily) we'd have to argue that all religion, all sport, all art, happened for similar "natural" rather than arbitrary reasons. History is made up of accident. It was accident that the patriarchal Greek traditions surpassed the more equal Roman ones (caused by the spread of Christianity, which arose in a Greek context, the Eastern Empire), and that Jewish traditions surpassed the mediterranean matriarchal societies. In a new society, one that begins with guns already, there's no way of saying whether men or women would "definitely" rule over the other. Justt as there's no way of predicting the religion, fashion, art, ecoomy, etc. Random things happen.

*end historian's lecture*

*goes to play games now*

 

[tuluse]

Talking about the homosexuals, I think women in dangerous places should be rare in teh wastelands. A post-nuclear society would be very patriarchal, because women can make babies and men can't. I think Caesar's Legion makes a lot of sense in that aspect, too bad they made them treat the women like shit and other evul stuff.

Which should make homosexuals even rarer, and considered odd. Women who aren't hereto should be considered strange or even traitorous ("how dare you not to have babies bitch!").

Lesbians would probably have children regardless (whether voluntary or not).

That said, there are matriarchal primitive societies, so I see no reason why one couldn't exist in the wasteland.

True. The idea of homosexuals who don't fuck the opposite sex, ever, and remain childless/adopt children is very late 20th/21st century. Homosexuals in ancient societies usually kept it in the closet and had children.

The problem with matriarchal primitive societies is that the most basic hierarchy between persons is force. Men are stronger than Women. They also spend nine months in a almost-defenseless state to birth children, during which they require male protection. Matriarchal socities make more sense if they have acess to modern technology like firearms or contraceptives and possibly robots. Also, male combatants are superior, therefore they are the ones who tend to retain the monopoly of force. A matriarchic society is possible in a context of the Fallout Universe, but would require a good explanation as to why they were never overrun by Caesar's Legion wannabes or something.

Ok, but if you can convince one dude to fight with/for you, then the other guy being stronger doesn't matter.

 

[Zakhad]

Talking about the homosexuals, I think women in dangerous places should be rare in teh wastelands. A post-nuclear society would be very patriarchal, because women can make babies and men can't. I think Caesar's Legion makes a lot of sense in that aspect, too bad they made them treat the women like shit and other evul stuff.

Which should make homosexuals even rarer, and considered odd. Women who aren't hereto should be considered strange or even traitorous ("how dare you not to have babies bitch!").

Lesbians would probably have children regardless (whether voluntary or not).

That said, there are matriarchal primitive societies, so I see no reason why one couldn't exist in the wasteland.

True. The idea of homosexuals who don't fuck the opposite sex, ever, and remain childless/adopt children is very late 20th/21st century. Homosexuals in ancient societies usually kept it in the closet and had children.

The problem with matriarchal primitive societies is that the most basic hierarchy between persons is force. Men are stronger than Women. They also spend nine months in a almost-defenseless state to birth children, during which they require male protection. Matriarchal socities make more sense if they have acess to modern technology like firearms or contraceptives and possibly robots. Also, male combatants are superior, therefore they are the ones who tend to retain the monopoly of force. A matriarchic society is possible in a context of the Fallout Universe, but would require a good explanation as to why they were never overrun by Caesar's Legion wannabes or something.

Ok, but if you can convince one dude to fight with/for you, then the other guy being stronger doesn't matter.

This is all working up to an Aunty Entity scenario, isn't it?

I see your game, Tuluse. you can't trick me into arguing for the sanity of Mad Max 3.

 

[Commissar Draco]

NCR army are those poor loosers drafted and send into jungle wasteland to die cause politicians in Shady Sands don't have an idea how to brake the stalemate and actually win the war they started. I didn't do any Wyrmlordian research but Men outnumber women at least 2:1 as far as grunts are concerned, it is again hard to say about fallout given all this prewar magic like stimpacks amiable to all but Legion but judging from sanitary conditions in burn out towns and military camps it is not a place you would send your daughter to. NCR is not as technologicly advanced anyway trucks are rarity, majority of transport is made by animals and trains and even their power armors are not powered, most tech is XIX/XX century so you can guess that living in XIX century conditions will lead to XIX society. But not complaining judging how PC Sawyer is FNV could be as queer as new Biowhore games.

 

[ohWOW]

Actually, I hated that NCR is basically classic USA parody in this shit game.

Plus these fucking rangers, "howdy there look at my awesome hat". Made me want to kill all of them fuckers.

 

[Zakhad]

Actually, I hated that NCR is basically classic USA parody in this shit game.

Cool story.

 

[ohWOW]

 

[Zakhad]

Not really.

Edit: although that was a much more clever film than people give it credit for.

 

[Endemic]

Mini-nukes In FO3 and NV aren't all that unrealistic (in concept if not execution), there were Cold War versions designed to be a last ditch defence against Russian hordes invading Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

As for the whole Cook-Cook/Betsy thing, that smacked of being unfinished. No way Ziets can be happy with a half-baked quest like that. "The Coyotes" was much better implemented, and you actually had to search around for the clues\evidence.

 

[Endemic]

I would't have minded mini-nuke it was quest-reward ultra-awesome one-shot nuke launcher that was actually useful.

Of course, it would be a BIG AND HEAVY MOTHA.

The Fat Man, as it is, is not much more than a better rocket launcher.

I can agree with that. I don't use the mini-nukes in game myself (prefer shotguns and rifles).

 

[Gozma]

I started playing this from the get-go with the jsawyer mod and used the logan's loophole trait, which he changed from a level 30 cap to a level 21 cap. I figured this was Fallout 1 style, "You will never hit the caps without grinding" kinda shit. Hit the cap about a third of the way through Honest Hearts, the first of the expansions I tried, without even having done the Benny stuff in the main game yet. Damn. It's not even a good balance thing, the scaling means it doesn't matter what the cap is - just that now this is not an RPG any more because the numbers don't go up frownz. It's not like the no-addiction thing even matters, curing addictions is easy.

Also Honest Hearts is the saddest teenage boy's mary sue ever. It's weird that the monotheism-destroying A-bombs of the fallout universe spared Mormonism

 

[Zakhad]

curing addictions is easy.

Except in DM, where you can't (well, mostly you can't).

Also depends how much you use drugs. I use a LOT of drugs.

Also Honest Hearts is the saddest teenage boy's mary sue ever. It's weird that the monotheism-destroying A-bombs of the fallout universe spared Mormonism

Gonna have to clarify that for me. Who's the teenage boy, and who's the mary sue? I honestly (hahaha) didn't mind the plot of HH, although I thought it was too short.

And Mormonism was always there in the FO bible, I believe. It just wasn't mentioned in FO1/2, since they were set further south/west.

 

[Roguey]

Hit the cap about a third of the way through Honest Hearts, the first of the expansions I tried, without even having done the Benny stuff in the main game yet. Damn.

This is funny considering JSawyer halves all XP rewards, increases the amount of XP you need to level by 33% and reduces the DLC XP by 66%. So many things to do. A clear lesson in why getting XP for quests only is superior.

 

[Misconnected]

Talking about the homosexuals, I think women in dangerous places should be rare in teh wastelands. A post-nuclear society would be very patriarchal, because women can make babies and men can't. I think Caesar's Legion makes a lot of sense in that aspect, too bad they made them treat the women like shit and other evul stuff.

Which should make homosexuals even rarer, and considered odd. Women who aren't hereto should be considered strange or even traitorous ("how dare you not to have babies bitch!").

... Trolling or brain damaged?

To the first bolded bit: denying people agency & autonomy based on gender (or whatever the fuck else) is to treat them like shit. It might well be true that a more realistic wasteland would be patriarchal as hell, but it's a RPG aimed at a wide audience. Why in the sweet name of fuck should it disempower females, and by extension, female players? For the sake of realism? In a game with 1950's spandex comic book SCIENCE!!! that is just plain fucking absurd. If you want realism, get the fuck away from my Fallout. The point of the universe is the Rule of Cool, not whatever you think is realism. I mean, what's next? We can't have chainsaws in Doom, because out in the real world a chainsaw isn't simething you can carve up 10ft deamons with? Seriously man, get a grip.

To the second: it's a total non sequitur. You have offered nothing from which it might follow that homosexuality, or at least open homosexuality, would be more or less common or socially acceptable. Indeed in the remotely comparably less secure societies of the past and present that weren't burdened with Abrahamic shite (and a few others, but mostly that one particular source of mental poison), homosexuality was/is typically culturally value neutral. If you actually care to look the shit up, you'll find it's been considered a trait of just about everything from incorruptible servants, to being born for slavery, to being a born hero, to being destined for great material wealth.
If the Bible and all it's shit is more or less dead in the wasteland, why would its condemnation of homosexuality, of all things, still linger? You might as well be saying "And because of nothing in particular, sinistral's would be even rarer, even considered odd."

 

[Gozma]

I am shocked at how good Dead Money is. Who designed this? It's on another level completely from Honest Hearts. Did HH cost half as much or something? Dead Money has actually sold me on the idea of DLC occupying a niche that isn't the same as expansion packs.

 

[grotsnik]

HH had by far the shortest development time out of any of the DLC, according to Josh Sawyer - so the main questline was basically a placeholder they'd originally meant to replace with something more interesting, but they never had enough time.

MCA was the lead on Dead Money (and the rest).

 

[Gozma]

Oh my fucking God Lonesome Road was made to infuriate me. ED-E is a fucking sapient, impish cutebot now? That was never even hinted at in the base game. Fallout robots always managed to maintain a good stock of inhuman weirdness and never ever became gross little empathy dolls. That is completely awful. Also an endless Batman throatvoicing character

Progressing through the DLCs is fucking horrifying. Their first attempt was a great little survival horror game using the system and assets you were used to that also played to their other strength with the character stuff. Perfect display of what you could get out of a low budget, short game when you already have a warehouse full of AAA junk and leftovers lying around to make into new stuff. They got it right on the first attempt - this kind of thing is the only reason the DLC model should exist.

Second DLC is an Icewind Dale II special: Get this runt out the door no matter what.

Third DLC is a DLC DLC. For one thing it's a really elaborate overpowered player housing mod with all kinds of pandering content and superloots and the gameplay is the base game.

Fourth DLC is inexplicable.

 

[Carrion]

Yeah, Lonesome Road kind of shits and pisses all over the lore and sucks in multiple ways. I guess it's meant to be some kind of a climactic pseudo-endgame, but it never really succeeds in that and feels too detached from everything. I liked the atmosphere, though, and the ending is kind of satisfying too.

 

[Jick Magger]

The Gamebryro engine is really too shitty to be able to deliver anything that could be described as 'epic'. Ruined the immersion for the whole war, too. I know it's meant to be inferred that the legion outnumbers the NCR in the thousands, but the gamebyro engine constantly made it out to me that the NCR were somehow constantly losing to and terrified of a military which was quantitatively equal to them, but armed with machetes and sharp sticks.

 

[MisterStone]

Bros I just started playing this game last week. It's the first console RPG I have ever played (except for Adventure on my Atari 2600 when I was a little kid).

On the one hand, the Gamebryo engine really looks like shit after I've been playing Dark Souls for a long time. And Dark Souls isn't exactly the best-looking game out there (it's decent). Anyway, good god do the character models in this game look horrible- everyone has the same mannish face with no proper eyebrows, fucked up shading, etc. and HUMONGOUS HANDS. The landscapes and outdoor environments look good though. It is actually kind of fun to explore for a while, although at some point digging through an rusty metal box only to ignore the find of some super glue and a paper weight for the 1000th time starts to get tedious.

VATS is actually not a bad idea. I feel like this kind of thing could be implemented better (for intelligent players) to make a better game, but it's good for what it is. I sort of don't like the artificial limits on damage etc. which mean that you can shoot someone point blank in the face and they don't die, because they're "high level" or whatever. If someone made an ultra-realistic game using this kind of 3d RT w/pause type thing it might be really fun. Does this exist?

I had the difficulty on medium without realizing it for a while because I turned on hardcore, and I thought that this would also affect combat difficulty only to realize later that everything just died when I shot it in the head with That Gun. I'm hoping it is a bit more challenging now that I cranked it up to VH.

Anyway, there are a lot of silly things about quests in this game- NPCS trusting you too much, a lot of silly run-around-and-talk-to-people errands, or kill-the-wuzzle quests, but I don't mind too much.

I was surprised about how quickly I got used to the user interface and especially the character and inventory sheets (ie PIPboy). I thought this was a big disadvantage for playing on a console, but actually it's not a big deal.

Anyway, I'm glad I started with NV instead of the original FO3. Is there any point to playing FO3 after this?

 

[Vicar]

.......

Anyway, I'm glad I started with NV instead of the original FO3. Is there any point to playing FO3 after this?

No.