So, anyone playing League of Legends?

[Grunker]

I never asked you for a wall of text

I can't say what a standard AP is, as I don't know what your arbitrary idea of 'standard AP' is.

^ that's you asking for an adequate definition before you're willing to discuss, and such a definition cannot be provided without the amount of text I just gave you. Don't ask me to define something and then complain when I do!

for now I just want to be sure what you're trying to argue:

I'm being pretty clear in aforementioned wall of text homie. I'm saying: of course you can group "classes" of champions together based on their similarities (otherwise you're arguing that you can't compare the similarities of champions, and I'm sure that's not what you're doing... right?). Grouping standard AP carries is just like grouping "global ult" champions or "energy" champions; you just make a group of traits and call them something:

You take a group of champions who share these characteristics: ranged, high burst, hard cc, AoE damage, at home in mid lane and who have a big nuke ult. To be a standard AP Carry, you have too have all but one of those. You can group these guys together and call them whatever (I call them standard AP Carries here) and look at how many of this type have been released lately and what their fates have been. And then you notice some common traits:

1) Few releases compared to earlier days
2) Both old and new releases of this kind of champion are mostly unplayed and considered not viable or sub-par, or played in other roles
3) Have not received patching under the same circumstances as other types of champions

Can RIOT do whatever? Sure.

Is my satire earlier in this thread, A Guide to Mage Design, true? Hell yes.

The only thing I've been saying since the start is: I like standard AP carries, RIOT doesn't right now. You challenged the last bit. So I've heard your opinion. I'm waiting to hear your argument.

Also, get online. I have the day off tomorrow. GAMINGZ TIEM

 

[Ulminati]

Not a fan of the Vi nerf. One of the hallmarks of a good Vi was timing your ult to act as a CC sponge at the start of a teamfight. She'll have a hard time sticking to priority targets now. Hell, even her ganking potential vs lanes with a snare or stun just plummeted.

 

[Azael]

tldr pls

riot's been fucking APs in the ass for a year now, more news at 11

Why do you lie?

Hashinshin is so fun. When Zed came out he had an article about how terrible he was and just lately he wrote an article about how the difference between a melee ADC and Zed was that the latter didn't suck.

 

[Renegen]

Speaking about Zed, I've come back from a mission to see if his nerfs crippled him at his true position, in the jungle.

Good news, the nerfs haven't affected him too much. There was this 1 kill that I barely missed, probably because of higher cooldowns on his E but he's just the same deadly assassin we know and love. You gotta build him different though, my core is now Spirit of the Elder Lizard (which is getting nerfed AGAIN, why isn't the tanky spirit item nerfed when 90% of junglers are cc tanks anyway?...), Ravenous Hydra and Brutalizer. His early clears are about the same speed as before because Zed actually runs out of energy in the jungle so he couldn't really spam 3 sec E non stop before. You substitute the higher cooldown of E with more Qs for about the same damage. Maybe his first clear with blue buff is worse.

Mid-game the Tiamat/Hydra active allows you to clear a camp or push a wave with a single E resulting in the same clear speed as before. The Hydra is also very nice for mid-game as it allows you to front load the damage a bit more and not rely on his energy or higher E cooldown. This Orianna dared to push mid alone and thought she was hot shit spamming her shields, slows and ult on me, still died to my burst.

In conclusion, his clears are about the same and his teamfighting/burst a bit worse but smarter item building of Hydra (which few Zeds ever do) can compensate. What I haven't tried yet is jungle duels before level 6 or any significant items. He's probably a lot worse there.

 

[Juul]

The only thing I've been saying since the start is: I like standard AP carries, RIOT doesn't right now. You challenged the last bit. So I've heard your opinion. I'm waiting to hear your argument.

Mixing 'standard' AP carries with alternative mids is not the same as RIOT not liking AP carries. I've already listed the top 8 mid picks that contain at least 3 picks that would satisfy the requirements for your 'standard' list. I've tried, but I can not for the life of me see how that shows a RIOT bias against standard AP.

Also, I believe this whole discussion has sprung from the assumption that Lissandra will be useless now (thus fueling the alleged 'RIOT is anti standard AP'-theory). She may be (she already had a terrible winrate) but we'll see.

 

[Grunker]

Also, I believe this whole discussion has sprung from the assumption that Lissandra will be useless now

No - she wasn't played that much before the nerf. I think it's safe to assume the nerf want help her.

Beyond that, you're avoiding answering my arguments by the simple side-step of "3 out of 8 are standard AP" - not legit, bro.

 

[PlanHex]

While I also lament the lack of mages and/or their usefulness currently, Syndra's not that useless in top tier play though. Bjergsen does pretty well, even if he's the only one to pick her, ever.

To be fair, I'd rather play Veigar, but then again I really love that little guy, even if I only get to play him as 40-cdr-op-stun-no-q-farm in aram these days.

 

[Renegen]

Man I don't know what led me to try my first PBE game in months but it was pretty hilarious, 23-3-7 with Vayne. Almost got a penta if it wasn't for a 8 cs Talon ksing me. And we were losing the laning phase too plus they had 3 AD carries. Elo heaven, I bet this is what Bronze V is like. The Draven was so bad he didn't even spin his axes, I wanted to help him but all chat was disabled. Nothing more therapeutic than carrying in PBE.

Soo, I'm thinking of getting Vayne too. She can actually carry...

 

[Jasede]

Vayne carries sooooo hard. I'm starting to think I should ban her in Silver.

 

[Renegen]

We played against a smurfing Vayne not long ago, I wish I remember her name. She had the smurf profile, like 10 normal wins, not even a full rune page and 23-3 as Vayne for the week. I didn't know it of course in champ select but we picked Draven - Thresh and the fun started. It was a really intense game, luckily her support Taric was very stupid. Their whole team camped bot, but then so did we. The end result, Vayne just went 23-4 for the week. I asked her if she was smurfing and she said yes. Everyone was so pumped, the best part was Pantheon on their team saying smurfs ruin the experience. She's not necessarily OP, but as proven by the smurf, she carries like no other. And I think in silver I could be regularly allowed by the enemy to do so.

Knowing how to beat a Vayne is a rite of passage for every ADC, the worst games for me were when I single handedly fed a Vayne so hard we were forced to surrender. You kind of remember those moments and never want them to happen again.

 

[Jasede]

Give me some tips, I struggle against Vayne. And often it seems to me that every time the enemy team has Vayne my team will dive her tower and feed double/triple kill, effectively ending the game right then and there.

 

[Renegen]

Pretty much every AD carry that I main dumps on her, Draven, Varus, MF, Caitlyn. For easy mode go Caitlyn. If you're feeling really skilled go MF because although she is considered a hard counter, you need to know the matchup to actually make it a counter. I guess I would say there's two things you want to do against her. The first is to be afraid of her trades. She has quick short bursts that are really damaging, and she only needs 1 combo to get you to half hp and farm safely until 6. Either out-trade her in even shorter bursts, say poking her to death with Caitlyn, or have the support be there to double the damage. A good support will zone her hard. You probably won't kill her this way unless she's terrible but you'll push her out of lane. The 2nd thing against her is that you need to have good mechanics when a 2 v 2 breaks out, That's pretty much the opportunity to kill her.

 

[Jasede]

Lane isn't really the problem for me. The problem is when the team-fights start. Somehow, the enemy Vayne will always do a fantastic job at not getting attacked and clean up entire teams. And even if she had a bad lane, once she gets her farm up she feels far more devastating than Caitlyn could ever be.

Maybe I should spam pings on Vayne more often in teamfights and get those fuckers to kill the adc who I bubble'd and R'd with Nami. (grumble grumble)

And I seem to always get the good Vaynes because basically, they will Cleanse the first CC, then QSS/Merc Blade the second and continue on raining DEATH.

 

[Renegen]

Na, a Caitlyn will shut down Vayne so hard that Vayne won't be part of any teamfight, she'll be freezing her lane by her inner turret trying to catch back up while you're winning a 5 v 4. If Vayne is strong during teamfights, something went wrong in the laning phase. Vayne's mid-game is quite special because it's very strong since the supports leave lane and it becomes a 1 v 1. If she's not behind by this point, she starts bullying your adc and it's downhill from there. She's much scarier 1 v 1 than as a teamfighting ADC. Kog'Maw for example can lay more deeps. Vayne also needs good peels, you can safely ignore her while you slice through her tanks and if she isn't fed she won't really get to kill your front line.

 

[Jasede]

Good lord.

Reddit made it to my "most visited" websites in new Google Chrome tabs.
Just because I use to to get the latest League news.

I'll be back later, I think I have to format my hard drive.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

I'm jumping on the Nami boat as well, bitch is excellent. A job well done is when the enemy team goes "REPORT BOT LANE" and people start chasing you madly just because you're annoying. I tried a hybrid penetration rune page just so both my AA and Spell harass would be more effective, I don't know about the math in that but running armor marks and gold quints just seems to waste the harass potential of a ranged support.

Also my first ranked win with Alistar support S3, I picked him just to have a healer against Caitlyn and a tanky disruptor later on. They picked Sona and mostly I was just healing their harass, but on my second WQ Sona kicked the bucket, 0-2-13. I still don't know if when he's a reasonable support pick but the peeling powers are appreciated in these retarded "let's pick assassins" games.

 

[Ulminati]

I still don't know if when he's a reasonable support pick but the peeling powers are appreciated in these retarded "let's pick assassins" games.

Blitz, Thresh, Leona. Taric to some degress. When the enemy wants to stick to your ADC with something, that's when alistar shines. For ADCs, he works best against htings that can't dash/teleport out of his WQ while W is in progress. So draven, ashe and mf mainly. He's less useful against pokey supports, since they can whittle you down to the point where your WQ is too risky to do.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Nobody in kraftworld kodexia has played any summoner's rift for the last month (or, indeed, has played at all).

Let's play a ranked team game to hilarious results!

 

[dibens]

Haven't played the game in more than 7 months, thinking of firing it up tomorrow. How are my buddies Kennen, Singed, Alistar and Garen holding up after all this time? Are there any new "trololo, like I give a fuck" champs? Are there any groups I can join on West?

 

[Azael]

Nobody in kraftworld kodexia has played any summoner's rift for the last month (or, indeed, has played at all).

Let's play a ranked team game to hilarious results!

Went better than expected. Map awareness has really taken a hit after only playing ARAM for so long though.

 

[Hellraiser]

Haven't played the game in more than 7 months, thinking of firing it up tomorrow. How are my buddies Kennen, Singed, Alistar and Garen holding up after all this time?

Kennen is still an annoying cunt. I don't think he got changed much since the WOTA nerf.

Singed got nerfed a while back, he no longer has free CC reduction on his ult. He's still good though.

Alistar isn't doing much nowadays, a situational support at best.

Garen is more or less the same he has always been. Although granted nearly every new/FotM champion having a built-in escape or disengage somewhat screws him over. Also ranged/poke faggotry in top lane (jayce/elise/kha'zix/zed) is/was quite popular so his passive may not be as useful as it used to be.

 

[Jim Cojones]

So, with the new customizable item sets it's pretty easy to create a single set that will fit any champion and give you quick access to every single item.

Edit: hmm, forgot to place oracles and bottle in consumables.

 

[Grunker]

So, with the new customizable item sets it's pretty easy to create a single set that will fit any champion and give you quick access to every single item.

Edit: hmm, forgot to place oracles and bottle in consumables.

doing that, rest of shop is now worthless

 

[Azael]

Creating a set like that myself, so much smoother to have all the base building blocks rather than the finished big items.

EDIT: Damn, I have 12 k IP Recommend me something to buy. Have been considering getting two lifesteal quints for my AD page. Worth it?

 

[Ulminati]

Syndra and Fiora