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So, anyone playing League of Legends?

Darth Roxor

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Srsly, though. I suspect I'm doing something horribly ronk, having played her only a total of two times thus far, but all her skills except the ultimate (which can be shut down retardedly easily) are total suckage.

Why do people choose her so often. Must be the tit factor.
 

Grunker

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She's a horrible champion. She sucks at low and high ELOs both. Damage is to low, shunpo is one of the worst blinks in the game, and her ultimate is easily stoppable by anyone who is not a retard.

She's not used in solo queue (low or high elo), at our elo in arranged, or in any tournaments.

People like her because if you get off that perfect ult you will win a team fight on your own.
 

Pony King

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@Grunker
I was convinced that you didn't mention counter-jungling? If you did then I'm at fault and probably didn't read your post properly. :oops:
I still think that it deserves to be mentioned often, as it is a part of jungling that most solo-queue people don't seem to understand properly, and instrumental in winning against certain champions.

about solo-queue vs. 5v5 as skill determinator:
The problem, as I see it, is that they show two different skills. The 5v5 rating is the rating of your team and how good your team is at winning (which is the only thing that Elo determines), whereas your solo-queue rating specifically determines how good you are at winning games.

The problem with your examples is that you focus on the negative aspects (of which I could mention many myself), though that doesn't change the fact that you're the only constant in your solo-queue games and as such you have a higher or lower winrate based on your constant effect on your games.

I like to do the following to get an idea of my skill:
if917d.jpg


The law of large numbers explains that over enough games I should be able to tell which champions I'm good at and can win games with. That is the closest we can get to determine our personal skill.

There are a few caveats to this:
  • Your 5v5 rating means nothing if you've played with multiple teams. Depending on the exact workings of the LoL Elo system your team rating would begin to get more meaning again if you keep playing with the same team i.e. you 5v5 Elo and your teammates 5v5 Elo would meet over time.

    Your solo-queue means less the more you duo-queue i.e. there are people who get carried by people they duo-queue with.

    You Elo, obviously, means less if someone else plays on you account. (like, duh ;) )
All of this is my opinion, though I think it is correct.

I also suspect that you have a fear of losing (you seem to focus a lot on that), the only solution I know of to that is instalocking AP Teemo while exclaiming that he is "god-king". Try it out.




@Jaedar
He got nerfed a little a short while ago, but probably still fine. I don't think he is top-tier (or whatever) anymore.

@Katarina discussion
How do you build her? I haven't tried her yet, but she seems only viable when build as an AP or hybrid champ.
Her ultimate specifically is tied to knowing your place on your team and not going in until the right time vis-a-vis enemy CC use. She is probably more team specific than most champions.
Westrice have what seems like a good guide on Katarina.
 

Grunker

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whereas your solo-queue rating specifically determines how good you are at winning games.

But this is exactly my point. It doesn't for two reasons:

1) Who you get paired with is extremely random - get paired with the leaver? You lose.

2) This is a team game. It will always be the collective effort of the five players that determines the outcome. It is absurd to speak of games won as an ability to measure players skill, unless that player is extraordinarily good or bad.
 

Pony King

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I love how you pick out a small sentence and pretend that that is my entire arguement. :lol:

Assuming that you don't leave, your team has less of a chance for one (4 potential leavers as opposed to 5).

It doesn't matter that it is a team game since your rating isn't determined by the games that your team losses for you (or the games won for you by the enemy team), but by the ones where you carry your team of retards to victory.
To be clear, carrying isn't going 20/0/5 (or whatever silly score), but is instead anything that makes the difference in making your team win:
  1. destroying the enemy team 1v5
  2. Putting down wards that create an important opportunity for your team
  3. Assasinating the primary damage dealer on the enemy team
  4. I can't think of any more but they are there

I've won ranked games because of 2 and 3 and my rating would be lower if I had not carried those games. Before you say that that happens twice every hundred games, no, definitely not, more like 3 every 26'th game.
Then there are the games where you do decently instead of feeding, which helps your rating as well or have you never had close games?

@ a completely different subject
Have any of you guys seen bottom lane compositions that are viable and doesn't consist of support + farm heavy champ? I keep seeing people say that Leona bottom is "viable" and that sounds really weird to me.
Edit: I'm specifically talking post sustain-nerf comps.
 

Grunker

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but by the ones where you carry your team of retards to victory.

It is painfully evident that you have not found yourself below the 1200-mark. I shall explain why:

To be clear, carrying isn't going 20/0/5 (or whatever silly score), but is instead anything that makes the difference in making your team win:
destroying the enemy team 1v5

This is all well and good, but I recently went 26/3/15 with Annie. I could literally defeat 4 of the opponents champions in a fair fight, since none of them bought magic resist. However, one player on my team had left the game, and the others did not push out (and when they did, were destroyed by the enemy). Annie cannot kill the nexus by herself (and I sincerely doubt Morde would have been able to either, and as much as can be said about him he is one of the best champions at destroying many champions at once).

Add to this that if you are required to carry THIS HARD - that is, 1v5 the enemy - you will have to be placed on a rating far lower than your intended one. You cannot 1v5 a team of opponents with the same skill-level as you.

Putting down wards that create an important opportunity for your team

This is the number 1 reason I prosecute you with a complete lack of understanding of 1200- rating games. I ALWAYS ward, and I ward A LOT. Warding is crucial of course, and it is twice as good in a rating where no one buys oracle's or wards themselves. That is, if players watch the mini-map. See, at 1200-, most players are completely incapable of this. People die as much to ganks and random encounters in the jungle in games where you ward as in games where you don't.

Assasinating the primary damage dealer on the enemy team

*groan*

All the things you explain are what make me want to play solo-queue. And the more you can count on your team-mates not being flailing retards the more these things really MAKE the difference. But I can fulfill all of these to perfection and I will STILL lose a crapton of games to players who do none of them. I can also do none of them and STILL win games over players who do all of them to perfection.

The reason is that the level of retardation found on 1200- is so huge every single game is a gigantic coin-toss. It doesn't help to ward or assassinate the enemy carry, or securing dragon, or whatever else there might be of delicious goals, if your teams are asshats that plays directly detrimental to their own chance at winning. Neither does it matter if the enemy is doing this; you will win whether you ward or not.

I really wish there was a replay function in this fucking game so I could upload some replays to prove my points.

Anyway, to the second part of the argument, the high ELO one:

At high ELO, I don't really care about single player skills as much as I care about the overall game. Tournament games are far more interesting to watch than 2500-ELO solo queue games. Playing solo-queue at 1500+ (I've borrowed a mate's account to see the difference between the ELO I'm at, and I did quite well actually), is far less interesting than playing Arranged 5v5. Almost every single Arranged 5v5 I've played has been extremely intense. There are so many more layers to it. It's not enough anymore to focus on your own game, you have to work with the team, and as you play more and more together you start being able to foresee your friends' moves and how they will react to different situations.

It is really the most intense to watch and play games in Arranged 5v5.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
What, none of you play on the US servers?

I swear, it's all just Brazilians and Koreans. I wonder what ranked is like, Normal games in my hidden-ELO tier are always filled with wards & oracle's and support champs. Well, always isn't true, 40% of the time everyone just locks Twitch, Eve, Kat and so on, all spamming MID as hard as they can.

Someone teach me HoN.
 

Grunker

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Jasede said:
Someone teach me HoN.

I pondered a switch some time ago and then my friend (who just switched from HoN to LoL) said it was exactly the same level of retardation except less people played it...
 

kingcomrade

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I still mostly just play DotA because I play it with friends.

After going like a year of on and off playing with them and never winning (with me not playing very much), suddenly we're winning every single game and it's usually a pushover. I went 13-2 with quillboar yesterday. Quillboar!
 

Phage

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Actually Grunker, I am at a shitty sub-1200 elo, and I believe that the system works, albeit its flaws.

I say this because I have (last time I checked) an over 70% win ratio with Karthus over a good number of games. This means that I am actually able to more than carry my weight as that character at my level.

Unfortunately I need to learn to play more characters at that efficiency to progress, and I've been busier than usual lately.
 

Grunker

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Phage said:
Actually Grunker, I am at a shitty sub-1200 elo, and I believe that the system works, albeit its flaws.

You're welcome to, I don't have a patent on the truth! :)

But I have no explanation for how I can play at 1500 ELO without problems yet cannot carry myself out of the below 1000 ELO I am at now. If you have an explanation for this, you are welcome to give it, because I sure would like to get to an ELO where playing this game becomes fun.

As I have stated many times, my core principles are speaking in a nice manner, spamming wards, and playing something that can carry hard.

Again, I am more than able to follow my team in the much harder Arranged Ranked (where there are like 20 kills total in each game) and playing on my friend's account on 1500 ELO was not much of a problem.
 

DakaSha

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Just carried a 4v5 game that went almost 90 mins with teemo. 33/13/21
Both teams were such morons.. but i guess theirs was worse
 

Markman

da Blitz master
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When it comes to elo hell where im at is that you have to play for two atleast to carry yourself out of it. Ive typed in every game to people to buy wards, when to push and when to gank. If they can hold their lane you can win sometimes, but if they start losing lanes nothing can save you. Your fed champ is nothing to their three fed champs.

To get out of elo hell you need a bit of tryharding and a shitload of luck.
 

Phage

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Grunker said:
But I have no explanation for how I can play at 1500 ELO without problems yet cannot carry myself out of the below 1000 ELO I am at now. If you have an explanation for this, you are welcome to give it, because I sure would like to get to an ELO where playing this game becomes fun.


Simple - Solo Queue has a much much larger playerbase. In fact, on the NA ladders, there are 7.2 thousand pages of players for Solo Queue, and only 2.9 thousand for Arranged.

I believe Riot said something about 1500 being one of the highest percentiles for solo queue, lol (Also someone did the math and 1000 is above the 50% mark, believe it or not)

edit - those pages only display players who are above 1200. If 1000 is above the 50% mark, then one can only imagine just how many people there are sub 1200.

second edit - I appear to have misunderstood your question. I thought you were playing at 1500 in arranged. Regardless, how many games did you play on your friend's account at 1500?
 

Grunker

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TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

Grunker hereby issues a formal apology to anyone to whom he has given the impression that the new Garen is not OP. Grunker was clearly talking out his Denmarkian ass.

That is all.

(Took him for a spin today. Between towerdiving Akalis on full health and quadra-killing an enemy team in two games in a row I pondered my unfair words at the 'dex.)
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Told you ;)

Today I was incredibly shitty with every character I played.
 

Darth Roxor

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Jesus Christ jumping on a pogo stick, why are people so retarded.

When a wild Shen (me) appears when you are running at 20% hp from an angry enemy team and uses his fucking shadow dash to cover your escape, YOU DON'T TURN AROUND AND START ATTACKING.

FFS WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE
 

Lupus

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Darth Roxor said:
Jesus Christ jumping on a pogo stick, why are people so retarded.

When a wild Shen (me) appears when you are running at 20% hp from an angry enemy team and uses his fucking shadow dash to cover your escape, YOU DON'T TURN AROUND AND START ATTACKING.

FFS WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE
This happens all the time at every Elo range. Hell, even when I play with friends I have to yell at them to run if I try to protect them by soaking damage and intercepting skillshots.
 

Berekän

A life wasted
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I ALWAYS have that problem with Shen. He's a great life-saver, but people are retarded and think you can turn the tide without them getting killed, it's even worse when you go kamikaze, sacrificing yourself to save your carry and people just get killed with you instead of fucking running away.
 

Jasede

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Lupus_ said:
Darth Roxor said:
Jesus Christ jumping on a pogo stick, why are people so retarded.

When a wild Shen (me) appears when you are running at 20% hp from an angry enemy team and uses his fucking shadow dash to cover your escape, YOU DON'T TURN AROUND AND START ATTACKING.

FFS WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE
This happens all the time at every Elo range. Hell, even when I play with friends I have to yell at them to run if I try to protect them by soaking damage and intercepting skillshots.

I'm so tired of this, too. I always have to play a tank because nobody picks one in solo-queue, and when there's no tank it more often than not is a loss.

But when you do pick a tank, they like to not wait for you to initiate, and always, always turn around to fight when you go to save someone. Sheesh.
 

Markman

da Blitz master
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6 losses in a row. Fuck this shit. Just played with Anivia on my team that couldnt land a fucking skillshot. Or Khart in previous game going 0-4 to Annie. She was 5 levels higher than him. Really wanna kick somebody.

Oh, and this guy from SK gaming plays a nasty Morgana, never saw her played like that.
http://clgaming.net/live/2048-sk-ocelote
 

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