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So, anyone playing League of Legends?

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,665
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Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
I can't remember the last time I built wriggles on nasus. Even if you start cloth+5 (which you do most of the time anyway) you just keep the cloth to turn it into FH later on. The thing with nasus is that he is a very late game champion, you can't just get fed and buy shit to win you need to farm farm and farm. Items help but they won't mean jack if you have 50 CS and only around +100 Q damage farmed. Which is why you max Q first, you need to minimize any CS loss from last hitting too early every minions is worth 3 points of damage. That doesn't sound like much but it quickly adds up. W is the second skill you max, it is a godlike debuff that outright cripples a lot of champs (derpamere for example). It allows you to farm safely, mess up enemy gank attempts and prevent the enemy from trying to harass you. Nasus post 6 is ungankable unless you push a lot and don't ward. Even pre-6 he's hard to gank and due to lack of CDR that early odds are the enemy will push more than him since you try to farm with Q only as much as possible.

Overall you should build nasus with CDR items and tanky items, the only damage item you should ever get is a trinity force and you only get that after FH+shurelia's+FoN(or just a negatron if it is sufficient). FH is pretty much core on him but it should be delayed if the enemy (particularly your lane opponent if you face kenen or morde) has an abundance of magic damage. The reasons why you build CDR and tanky are simple, nasus scaling with raw AD and AS is meh and most of his damage comes from Q. This means two thing, one you need cdr to spam Q more (not to mention W) to deal massive damage, two you can build full tank and still rape. But I guess you already know that.

As far as nasus' counters go a good tryndamere can set you behind in cs by a decent amount early on but post boots and chainmail you can laugh at him, garen is just fucking obnoxious as is udyr. Irelia can be a pain because of W, morde is a major dick to lane against. Overall as far as laning goes your job is to be careful as fuck until level 2, slightly less careful as fuck until level 6, and not giving a damn about the enemy harass after level 6 and your first major tanky item (hopefully a glacial shroud).

If you want to learn how to lane against all champs (even if you shouldn't against some of them like Garen) check out this guide. It has a a list of what to start with and what to rush when facing different champs. It's very well written because FYA Umashi unlike that asshole Dyrus (fuck his shitty guides) actually bothers to write informative guides. Hyfe's guide is nowadays quite similar as far as the builds go (it got updated it used to be different hence Umashi mentions he disagrees with it but nowadays the builds suggested by both players are similar).
 
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
2,608
Location
Airstrip One
:bro:


Just musing, really. Alternate builds are something always worth looking at - case in point, the final of the last major tournament.


On another note, I fucking love Swain, even more so than the other tanky mages which just agree with me. Taking out the entire enemy team as they desperately try to stop me taking their blue and then ending on full health just never gets old :smug:
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
Patron
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
20,317
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DiNMRK
It used to be pretty funny to run katarina vs swain in lane. Shunpo pretty much hardcounters nevermove, her bouncy daggers fuck him up whenever he ults and he can't stop death lotus.

I ought to reinstall lol one of these days.
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,665
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
Patch preview is up. Short summary: better nerf vlad. :troll:
Also the shen buffs will finally be in that patch, sona's early game gets nerfed and soraka can't cast infuse on herself but now infuse restores more mana to allies.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,958
Location
Djibouti
Shen's top lane domination here we go!

Darth Roxor seal of approval.

Should also be possible to start jungling without blue now, thanks to ki strike energy regain. Will need to see the numbers, obviously, but I approve of those buffs so much :M

BATTLESHEN RIDES AGAIN
 

Berekän

A life wasted
Patron
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
3,110
A new guides webpage has been launched just a few days ago: LoLPro

I think it's p. nice, all the guides are made by Pro's and they are quite extensive. There's, however, only one guide per champion (which might be good or bad) and some of them seem a bit outdated, it might be hard to find an updated guide if you're always dependant of one pro player to update it everytime there's a change on the game. So far I like the page a lot, I think's a great addition to SoloMid.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
6,933
I don't see lolpro going anywhere, partially because of the way they copied the mobafire build order scheme... With one purchase leading to the other, in one order. One of the essential skills to have in this game is to realize that your item buys must match your circumstances, using one build order all of the time is just idiotic. And in spite of there being only one guide per champ, it is not even all that detailed. Also, they don't have info on place in current metagame, something which most guides are lacking.

I do hope I am wrong though, and that it develops into something better.
 

Berekän

A life wasted
Patron
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
3,110
I agree that you should develop a good itemization knowledge, but at the same time if you're a newcomer to the game chances are you can't build for shit, and if you get a standard build you can do pretty well. More advanced players that want to improve their builds can look at the items section, which provides some insight in why an specific item is chosen and buy accordingly, there's also a itemization guide. When I'm using a guide I'm looking for the most efficient standard build that I can get, but I still know how to counter-build according to the game, it's a skill that you get over time.

And about the lack of detail, It depends of what guide you've looking at, take a look at the Ezreal or Sona guides.

It still needs lots of work, no argue about that, but it has a lot of potential with the proper feedback.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,716
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Copenhagen
Why do you find "lol" to be lacking in explanatory depth when apparantly "The Vlad nerf is a load of bollocks" is in your view a statement full of argument?

My genetically inferiror (Danish) mind is capable of curiosity, at least.
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
8,268
Location
Gritville
Well... nerfing what is already quite an underpowered (comparatively speaking) champ isn't exactly smart. Granted, Vlad's sustain early game is silly, so the nerf to the healing bonus of Tides of Blood early game IS entirely justified... the nerf to the damage bonus on Hemoplague (currently 14%, going down to about 10%) isn't quite as justified, however.

1. His ulti deals 150 damage at rank one. That's barely enough to finish somebody off. The third rank of it deals 350 damage, same thing there.
2. He's one of those champs which lacks any form of CC (not counting the pool, because if you use that as CC... you're a fucking moron) along with any really heavy-hitting spells, meaning that the ulti really is needed if you plan on doing a lot of damage in a team fight (using Tides of Blood).

I play Vlad as a tanky AP champ, mostly because that is the only way you can play Vlad and because it's a load of fun. Most people who complain about him being "underpowered" play him as a pure AP caster, which is entirely their own fault. L2p and all that. Now, even if I play him as the most effective kind of Vlad, he's still less damaging than... say... tanky Ryze, but Vlad makes up for that with a load of HP and a pretty solid passive, but most of the viability of tanky group-fight Vlad lies in the damage bonus Hemoplague gives your team mates and yourself.

And now that you've got the full scope of my (twisted) argument... I'd like to hear yours.

Oh, and sorry for being rude. I assumed that you were being a gloating little fucktard, like most butthurt retards in the LoL community are when faced with Tankymir.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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Copenhagen
I think he is definetely best played as a pure AP-caster. There are several reasons for this:

1) His passive scales better on AP.
2) His W (when not used as a get-out-of-jail-free-card) is best utilized to lower cooldowns (so that your abilities will deal damage again). This means that his W "scales" with damage (not with HP, it has no extra capabilities on a Vlad that deals less damage). For simplicity's sake, think of it this way: Would you rather have Vladimir's W on Brand or Swain? My answer to that question is pretty fucking clear.
3) There are several champions that fill out a "tanky" AP role far better - not because they have more "power" but because their kit is different. Swain is of course chief among these. I can think of no reason at all, if I want to go in and tank in a team-fight, to pick Vlad over Swain.
4) Vlad's sustain depends entirely on his AP. Build AP, and you deal more damage, deal more damage, and you regain more hit points. Because of his extremely low cool-down on Q, Vladmir will be able to stay comparatively longer in a fight with damage-builds that with tank-builds. Notice I'm not saying tank-Vlad won't survive longer, I'm saying Vlad's kit benefits from the damage, and his survivability from that. Meaning that if you want to build tanky, again, there are better champions, because Vlad's kit asks for damage - it's the basis for both his ability to kill others and stay alive.

There are a few other assorted arguments for not building him tanky (for example that he often ends up doing very little in fights) but they're minor compared to the above. Now as we've cleared that, next up is the question of his nerfing:

1) I don't know which Vlad you've been playing since his buff, but holy fuck I was happy to exploit him while he lasted. Laning is crucial at my ELO, and there wasn't a fuck almost anyone could do to me. The lowered cooldown on Q made me function as a regular AP Caster with a strong early lane, BUT with the added sustainability. I didn't need no CC - either you B'ed or you died. Couldn't always close the for kill, but that didn't matter when I became farmed and the other dude had to B all the time.
2) Vlad's Ult is soooooooo good. Those team-fights that happen after 20-30 minutes will decide the game if the laning didn't. These fights are frequently very close an long, and Vlad's ulti is excellent here compared to raw damage. The champions with raw damage have a hard time making full use of it - Brand, Ziggs and Cass rely on opponents being out of position or plain retarded. Vlad just pops that ult and starts going to town.
3) Even in team-fights, his sustain is phenomenal. When facing a fed "new Vlad", you feel like you do when you're against an extremely fed bruiser: They deal all the damage, but you don't really want to focus them. This is insane on an AP carry, of course, since they scale so much better. And this one even has the best escape-mechanism in the entire game. Getting 3 or 4 kills on new Vlad feels like haevan.
4) I don't think Vlad is super-well designed. I love playing him and I wish he would work, but I'm starting to think that maybe he doesn't. They've tried soooo many things with him, and he either scaled much, much too well or became decidedly "meh." I was pretty cheery when I saw this latest rendition of him "yay, Vlad buffs." But after playing him for a bunch of games (and against him as well), it became pretty apparant to me that he probably won't function as a "normal" champ, like ever. It's extremely hard to balance a kit with that much direct damage, sustain, tankability and then the escape mechanism. He just does so much that if he does it well, he becomes unbalanced, and if he does it poorly, he's extremely underwhelming.

I hope the nerfs will at least render him playable, but he did need them. That they're hitting the ult isn't their way of saying it's overpowered, by the way, it's their way of saying that he was, but they really didn't want to hit the new Q (and I like them for that).

I hope that satisfied your curiosity.
 

Lupus

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
101
Morello actually hates Irelia, so she's probably staying where she is now, which is cool, because she is still good champion.
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
8,268
Location
Gritville
I hope that satisfied your curiosity.

Yup, it did. And I guess we'll agree to disagree on the issue of tanking. I find that I can fill both rolls quite well with my 150/150 resists, 3900 health and 500 AP... especially when there are AP characters out there who has much more versatility and better scaling on their abilities. (But that's just me.)

Oh, one more thing: Morello can fuck right off.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
6,933
4) I don't think Vlad is super-well designed.

Neither does Morello, he has stated a couple of times on the forums that he really dislikes the entire idea behind "get free gold" passives.
 

Lupus

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
101
4) I don't think Vlad is super-well designed.

Neither does Morello, he has stated a couple of times on the forums that he really dislikes the entire idea behind "get free gold" passives.
And yet after he said that they released Xerath with AP to Armor scalling passive.
 

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