Solasta Solasta II - coming to Early Access in 2025

[Jinn]

Because that's the entire ballgame. They already won. It simulates a tabletop dungeon crawl well, and the personality system does fairly well at having a sorta Wiz8 thing to try and keep that going without getting into full blown written NPCs, which I prefer.

It's not enough to carry the entire experience. If they really wanted to just make a tactical RPG with 5th Ed. rules, then they should have done that and focused on it completely. They shouldn't have pretended they wanted to create a unique dialogue system, or try their hand at a meaningful story (which they completely failed at), or that exploration was important, etc. And no, I won't be trying Palace of Ice. I'll give Solasta II a try, but I'll honestly be going into it with hesitation after the mediocre experience that was the main campaign of Solasta 1. The foundation was there. All I'm saying is that it needs to seriously be improved upon if they want to make a cohesive quality campaign.

Again, not really sure what you're disagreeing with in my initial post. That they don't need to strive to improve the elements that they failed at? If they don't want to do well at those elements in their game, they shouldn't include them. I'm sure they do want to excel at those elements, but they just failed. They need to do better if they want to create something beyond mediocre.

 

[Mortmal]

I just went back and played through the later portions of Crown of the Magister, and good lord, the game is worse than I remember. As a tactical RPG and a representation of D&D rules in a videogame format, it does great. But almost everything else about it is pretty horrendous. They really need to step up their game in terms of quest design, encounter design, writing, and just overall sense of cohesiveness. And if they're going to continue on with the personality system, they need to figure out a way to make party dialogue less disjointed and unnatural. It's really bad. Like, really really bad. To the point where I can hardly believe they let it through to the public.

It's not really worse than any 5E module published recently, nor is it worse than most classic modules. That said, when it comes to D&D comparisons, it won’t particularly shine or achieve greatness like the Dark Sun, Dragonlance, or Ravenloft settings. Only a few things are truly memorable. Anyway, I think the improvements will be more on the cosmetic side rather than in storytelling, but I can’t blame them—especially after all those comments about the faces.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Because that's the entire ballgame. They already won. It simulates a tabletop dungeon crawl well, and the personality system does fairly well at having a sorta Wiz8 thing to try and keep that going without getting into full blown written NPCs, which I prefer.

It's not enough to carry the entire experience. If they really wanted to just make a tactical RPG with 5th Ed. rules, then they should have done that and focused on it completely. They shouldn't have pretended they wanted to create a unique dialogue system, or try their hand at a meaningful story (which they completely failed at), or that exploration was important, etc. And no, I won't be trying Palace of Ice. I'll give Solasta II a try, but I'll honestly be going into it with hesitation after the mediocre experience that was the main campaign of Solasta 1. The foundation was there. All I'm saying is that it needs to seriously be improved upon if they want to make a cohesive quality campaign.

Again, not really sure what you're disagreeing with in my initial post. That they don't need to strive to improve the elements that they failed at? If they don't want to do well at those elements in their game, they shouldn't include them. I'm sure they do want to excel at those elements, but they just failed. They need to do better if they want to create something beyond mediocre.

I don't agree that they failed in the way that you keep indicating. I'm not sure what's so hard to grok about this, especially given my remarks in the original Solasta thread.

 

[Jinn]

What non-combat content?

I don't agree that they failed in the way that you keep indicating.

Ok? Seems pretty contradictory to me. It seems like you agree with what I'm saying. You just don't like the negative tone of it? Also, it's not like I've studied your posts in the original thread.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Jinn I think it'd be more fair to say that they didn't make the game you wanted, but they delivered exactly what I wanted out of it. That our tastes diverge shouldn't surprise you much given that you're still a massive JRPG fan whereas I mostly gave up on that genre years ago and more just keep an eye on them and try out a few these days, whereas my main draw has always been party based D&D adjacent RPGs.

I don't know, man. If anyone tries playing Solasta for storyfag stuff, I'd say they're barking up the wrong tree. They're not even in the right country.

 

[Lagole Gon]

I just went back and played through the later portions of Crown of the Magister, and good lord, the game is worse than I remember. As a tactical RPG and a representation of D&D rules in a videogame format, it does great. But almost everything else about it is pretty horrendous. They really need to step up their game in terms of quest design, encounter design, writing, and just overall sense of cohesiveness. And if they're going to continue on with the personality system, they need to figure out a way to make party dialogue less disjointed and unnatural. It's really bad. Like, really really bad. To the point where I can hardly believe they let it through to the public.

>encounter design
I think it's above average. Not that the average quality is very high. It really benefits from all the tools a proper PnP adaptation gives.

>writing
We need more honest devs that realize they can't do ambitious writing and they don't pretend otherwise. Like in Solasta.
Because usually the alternative isn't good writing. It's twats who *think* they can write.
I enjoyed many gameplay aspects of BG3. But holy fuck, the story is so offensively stupid it scares me away from replaying it. It's ambitious and creative in the ways it insults your intelligence. I honestly wish BG3 had filler-story like Solasta, it would elevate it to 10/10 game.

>And if they're going to continue on with the personality system, they need to figure out a way to make party dialogue less disjointed and unnatural.
If you don't find the indie jank endering... perhaps indies are just not for you?

 

[Jinn]

@Jinn I think it'd be more fair to say that they didn't make the game you wanted, but they delivered exactly what I wanted out of it. That our tastes diverge shouldn't surprise you much given that you're still a massive JRPG fan whereas I mostly gave up on that genre years ago and more just keep an eye on them and try out a few these days, whereas my main draw has always been party based D&D adjacent RPGs.

I don't know, man. If anyone tries playing Solasta for storyfag stuff, I'd say they're barking up the wrong tree. They're not even in the right country.

My taste isn't narrow. I'm a fan of all RPGs, and am a massive fan of party-based western RPGs. I don't need a compelling story to carry an experience for me. In fact, story is on the bottom of the list of requirements for a game to succeed in my eyes. The only reason why I'm commenting on how Solasta failed in terms of writing, setting, story, etc. is because it did so in such a surprisingly bad way. Like, Solasta is very comparable to Neverwinter Nights in a lot of ways, and even NWN did better in most ways besides combat than Solasta. Encouraging developers to do better and being critical of their shortcomings is big part of what this website is about. Glossing over these things isn't going to help anyone, and it's definitely not going to help them make a better game in the future.

 

[mediocrepoet]

@Jinn I think it'd be more fair to say that they didn't make the game you wanted, but they delivered exactly what I wanted out of it. That our tastes diverge shouldn't surprise you much given that you're still a massive JRPG fan whereas I mostly gave up on that genre years ago and more just keep an eye on them and try out a few these days, whereas my main draw has always been party based D&D adjacent RPGs.

I don't know, man. If anyone tries playing Solasta for storyfag stuff, I'd say they're barking up the wrong tree. They're not even in the right country.

My taste isn't narrow. I'm a fan of all RPGs, and am a massive fan of party-based western RPGs. I don't need a compelling story to carry an experience for me. In fact, story is on the bottom of the list of requirements for a game to succeed in my eyes. The only reason why I'm commenting on how Solasta failed in terms of writing, setting, story, etc. is because it did so in such a surprisingly bad way. Like, Solasta is very comparable to Neverwinter Nights in a lot of ways, and even NWN did better in most ways besides combat than Solasta. Encouraging developers to do better and being critical of their shortcomings is big part of what this website is about. Glossing over these things isn't going to help anyone, and it's definitely not going to help them make a better game in the future.

You think NWN has a better story and campaign than Solasta?

I mean... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I guess.

For the setting, they're pulling Forgotten Realms which is established IP, not Bioware's creation. But NWN sucks balls. Terrible. Terrible game.

 

[Jinn]

>And if they're going to continue on with the personality system, they need to figure out a way to make party dialogue less disjointed and unnatural.
If you don't find the indie jank endering... perhaps indies are just not for you?

I'm maybe one of the biggest advocate for indies and one of the most forgiving of "jank" on this forum. It was endearing, and a good idea, until it was clear that they had completely failed in its implementation, and it became annoying halfway through the game. If they wanted to do this system, they should have ditched the voice acting and the close-up "cinematic dialogue", and done top down tradition CRPG conversations.

 

[Jinn]

For the setting, they're pulling Forgotten Realms which is established IP, not Bioware's creation. But NWN sucks balls. Terrible. Terrible game.

I agree, NWN is a terrible game. That's why it's unfortunate that I have to actually admit its writing, campaign , and yes, story was better than Solasta's. You think this makes me happy? You're very wrong about that. But ok, dig in. I get it, you love Solasta. You shouldn't blind yourself to its faults just because you like it though. I like it too. I just think it could do much better. The fact that someone like Artyoan can make better campaigns than an entire team of professional developers by himself is telling.

 

[mediocrepoet]

For the setting, they're pulling Forgotten Realms which is established IP, not Bioware's creation. But NWN sucks balls. Terrible. Terrible game.

I agree, NWN is a terrible game. That's why it's unfortunate that I have to actually admit its writing, campaign , and yes, story was better than Solasta's. You think this makes me happy? You're very wrong about that.

No, I think you're wrong and laughably so. I also don't think it's worth digging into that much because I also replayed Solasta OC and PoI recently and had a great time. I can't even fathom reinstalling NWN for any reason at all.

 

[Jinn]

No, I think you're wrong and laughably so. I also don't think it's worth digging into that much because I also replayed Solasta OC and PoI recently and had a great time. I can't even fathom reinstalling NWN for any reason at all.

And I think you're laughably wrong and falling prey to recency bias. Just to make it very clear to you. SOLASTA IS A BETTER GAME THAN NWN. It has better combat and better gameplay overall. I'm saying that if you took off your bias cap for a second, placed the dialogue and campaign side by side, you'd likely see that yes, even though NWN is shit, it still did those things better than Solasta. That brings me no joy to admit. They're just very comparable games in terms of primarily being a toolset for play-made modules, and that's the main reason why I made the comparison in the first place.

 

[mediocrepoet]

No, I think you're wrong and laughably so. I also don't think it's worth digging into that much because I also replayed Solasta OC and PoI recently and had a great time. I can't even fathom reinstalling NWN for any reason at all.

And I think you're laughably wrong and falling prey to recency bias. Just to make it very clear to you. SOLASTA IS A BETTER GAME THAN NWN. It has better combat and better gameplay overall. I'm saying that if you took off your bias cap for a second, placed the dialogue and campaign side by side, you'd likely see that yes, even though NWN is shit, it still did those things better than Solasta.

Nah, it's not that at all. It's that I don't value that stuff very much at all in CRPGs. In fact, I think that focusing on them too much are why Obsidian and Bioware both went to complete shit.

As my signature says,

"If just half of storyfags learned what a 'book' was, developers would no longer feel the need to cater to their stupid and unfulfillable wishes." -- copebot

It's called a difference in taste. Some of the stuff you seem to value makes me crazy or doesn't register for me at all.

 

[Jinn]

Nah, it's not that at all. It's that I don't value that stuff very much at all in CRPGs. In fact, I think that focusing on them too much are why Obsidian and Bioware both went to complete shit.

As my signature says,

"If just half of storyfags learned what a 'book' was, developers would no longer feel the need to cater to their stupid and unfulfillable wishes." -- copebot

It's called a difference in taste. Some of the stuff you seem to value makes me crazy or doesn't register for me at all.

You keep deflecting and suggesting that I'm a "storyfag." Or that I overvalue things like narrative in games. It's simply not the case. I see videogames as a sum of all their parts, and creating a cohesive experience is part of what makes them solid. A game doesn't need to tell a compelling or thought-provoking story to succeed as a videogame, but if it's going to devote a significant amount of time to that aspect, then it better be at least doing a decent job. If you're going to stop my gameplay and put me in a cutscene, then there better be at least some reason why I want to be there. And I'd preferable not be rolling my eyes in almost every one of them, which I involuntarily found myself doing at the strange, disjointed, and silly dialogue of Solasta. I liked the whole "this is a party of adventurers" thing they went for. I just think they did it so poorly that it ended up being a detriment to the experience rather than the something charming they were aiming for.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Nah, it's not that at all. It's that I don't value that stuff very much at all in CRPGs. In fact, I think that focusing on them too much are why Obsidian and Bioware both went to complete shit.

As my signature says,

"If just half of storyfags learned what a 'book' was, developers would no longer feel the need to cater to their stupid and unfulfillable wishes." -- copebot

It's called a difference in taste. Some of the stuff you seem to value makes me crazy or doesn't register for me at all.

You keep deflecting and suggesting that I'm a "storyfag." Or that I overvalue things like narrative in games. It's simply not the case. I see videogames as a sum of all their parts, and creating a cohesive experience is part of what make them solid experiences. A game doesn't need to tell a compelling or thought provoking story to succeed as a videogame, but if it's going to devote a significant amount of time to that aspect, then it better be at least doing a decent job. If you're going to stop my gameplay and put me in a cutscene, then there better be at least some reason why I want to be there.

I'm saying that for the conceit of mimicking a tabletop campaign, it was exactly what was needed. If you don't like it you can click through it, most of the time it didn't really matter one way or the other. Perfect.

If they make Solasta 2 like NWN, I'm going to be pissed. Probably at you personally.

 

[Jinn]

If they make Solasta 2 like NWN, I'm going to be pissed. Probably at you personally.

I don't want them to make Solasta 2 like NWN. I don't like NWN. Like, at all. I think I've made that clear enough. But if they want to continue on with the personality system they have, it'd probably benefit them to ditch the full voice acting and cutscene approach, in favor of some better characterization. I have a sneaking suspicion things turned out the way they did because they decided they needed every line voiced. It was a bad move and the game suffered from it.

Yes, mimic a tabletop campaign. It's a great idea, hammy lines and all. Just make it feel natural if you're going to go down that route.

I think you mistake me criticizing the game as me saying I hated it or something. I think they were on the right track, but just fumbled the execution terribly.

 

[mediocrepoet]

If they make Solasta 2 like NWN, I'm going to be pissed. Probably at you personally.

I don't want them to make Solasta 2 like NWN. I don't like NWN. Like, at all. I think I've made that clear enough. But if they want to continue on with the personality system they have, it'd probably benefit them to ditch the full voice acting and cutscene approach, in favor of some better characterization. I have a sneaking suspicion things turned out the way they did because they decided they needed every line voiced. It was a bad move and the game suffered from it.

No I get that. But you think NWN is superior to... anything. I'm not even sure if I'd put NWN over Sword Coast Legends. Or like... Gauntlet.

I don't care if it's voiced or not, but I definitely (mostly) liked the personality system more than you for giving the party certain "archetypal" personalities without rising to the level of full on NPC personas. The only thing I'd have liked is if you had a set of them that you could assign to your members. As I recall from one of the info dumps, they're intending to do something along those lines now.

Anyway, the party banter a la Wiz8 was fine and even something that I found appealing. Now do you understand matters of taste?

 

[Jinn]

Now do you understand matters of taste?

Absolutely. I'll take you condescending little quip seriously. I understand matters of taste, and what you've indicated to me is that Solasta: Crown of the Magister is what you'd consider a high quality campaign, and that Solasta II needs to do little to improve upon it. That's representative of your taste. That's great for Tactical Adventures, I suppose. That they have fans like you means they need to do little to improve. I think they have the potential to do much better though, and I would like to encourage them to do so.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Now do you understand matters of taste?

Absolutely. I'll take you condescending little quip seriously. I understand matters of taste, and what you've indicated to me is that Solasta: Crown of the Magister is what you'd consider a high quality campaign, and that Solasta II needs to do little to improve upon it. That's representative of your taste. That's great for Tactical Adventures, I suppose. That they have fans like you means they need to do little to improve. I think they have the potential to do much better though, and I would like to encourage them to do so.

You see condescending, I see you failing to grasp that certain things are a matter of preference and not some sort of logical hash out. Put it this way, I don't think Solasta has the best ever campaign, you're just putting words in my mouth now. I just don't think you're anywhere near what would actually improve it and generally, if it came down to focusing on keeping it where it is or putting less effort on the things I enjoyed about it and adding the stuff you're talking about, I'd take re-developing Solasta I.

 

[Jinn]

You see condescending, I see you failing to grasp that certain things are a matter of preference and not some sort of logical hash out. Put it this way, I don't think Solasta has the best ever campaign, you're just putting words in my mouth now. I just don't think you're anywhere near what would actually improve it and generally, if it came down to focusing on keeping it where it is or putting less effort on the things I enjoyed about it and adding the stuff you're talking about, I'd take re-developing Solasta I.

I pointed out things that could help in terms of presentation. Those improvements would help the total package. I didn't touch on the host of gameplay issues I have with it, because I feel that's been addressed exhaustively here already. But ok. What would make the game way better is:

-Actual exploration, aka not a nearly completely linear campaign, with almost entirely linear dungeon design.
-Better itemization.
-Better encounter design.
-More interesting and varied bestiary.
-More challenge.
-More classes.
-6 person party.
-Better UI design.

And I'm sure there's a number of other things that I'm missing. And yes, once they get their gameplay sorted out, they should see to trying to make a more compelling setting with more natural dialogue and a better overall utilization of the great idea that was the personality system.

Anyone here who's seen my posts through the years, or knows me even a little bit, knows I'm not here to shit on games. If I'm ever criticizing anything to this degree, it's because I see great promise and want a developer to do better. I think saying "this was good" in regards to Crown of the Magister is doing them a disservice, and I think that it needs to be improved upon. I think they can, and I hope they do. When I see fan made modules far surpassing what a team of professionals have created, I think it needs to be pointed out.

 

[JarlFrank]

I've been playing this a bit lately, and enjoying it so far. I went into it expecting a D&D combat simulator, nothing more and nothing less, and I wasn't disappointed.
Well, I was slightly disappointed, perhaps, by 5th edition being worse than either 2nd edition or 3rd edition, but that's not the devs' fault. If we disregard 5th edition being shit, it holds up as one of the best D&D combat simulators out there. The only one that's better is Knights of the Chalice 2, and that was made by a turboautist living on roots, so it would be hard to surpass.

There's also a whole load of user-made campaigns available, so when I'm done with all the official content and want more, it's there. This is great.

I love the three-dimensionality of the maps and how your characters can traverse them. Jumping, climbing, crawling. Some enemies can crawl on walls, like spiders, and a spell even allows your characters to do the same. It's excellent. All I'd want out of a combat engine.

There's no need for expansive non-combat content when the combat is done so well.

 

[mediocrepoet]

You see condescending, I see you failing to grasp that certain things are a matter of preference and not some sort of logical hash out. Put it this way, I don't think Solasta has the best ever campaign, you're just putting words in my mouth now. I just don't think you're anywhere near what would actually improve it and generally, if it came down to focusing on keeping it where it is or putting less effort on the things I enjoyed about it and adding the stuff you're talking about, I'd take re-developing Solasta I.

I pointed out things that could help in terms of presentation. Those improvements would help the total package. I didn't touch on the host of gameplay issues I have with it, because I feel that's been addressed exhaustively here already. But ok. What would make the game way better is:

-Actual exploration, aka not a nearly completely linear campaign, with almost entirely linear dungeon design.
-Better itemization.
-Better encounter design.
-More interesting and varied bestiary.
-More challenge.
-More classes.
-6 person party.
-Better UI design.

And I'm sure there's a number of other things that I'm missing. And yes, once they get their gameplay sorted out, they should see to trying to make a more compelling setting with more natural dialogue and a better overall utilization of the great idea that was the personality system.

Anyone here who's seen my posts through the years, or knows me even a little bit, knows I'm not here to shit on games. If I'm ever criticizing anything to this degree, it's because I see great promise and want a developer to do better. I think saying "this was good" in regards to Crown of the Magister is doing them a disservice, and I think that it needs to be improved upon. I think they can, and I hope they do. When I see fan made modules far surpassing what a team of professionals have created, I think it needs to be pointed out.

I think it has been pointed out. A lot. For years.

It's been pointed out so much that even their own community manager and press releases note it. Keep on forging ahead?

Anyway, I agree with most of these actual elements. Sure, those would be improvements. Several of them would mean that you're not actually playing a 5E blueprinted module anymore so you won't get it, but fine. e.g. more classes, 6 characters, etc.

Other than that if you think they can't sufficiently challenge a 4 character party, I have no idea how you figure adding 2 characters will help.

Bestiary is fine, but whatever.

UI complaint was always dumb. It's serviceable and readable. What more do you want?

 

[Jinn]

I think it has been pointed out. A lot. For years.

Yeah, I know. That's why I was touching on elements that hadn't been discussed to death already. But your insistence that those presentation problems were my only concerns encouraged me to illustrate my bigger problems with the game, which those issues only exacerbated.

Other than that if you think they can't sufficiently challenge a 4 character party, I have no idea how you figure adding 2 characters will help.

Again, if Artyoan can do it, why can't they? The 6 party member versions of his modules are more challenging than the 4. Yes, they can do it. Hire better people if they need to. Hell, hire Artyoan.

Bestiary is fine, but whatever.

It was an ok start, but began to wear thin around the halfway point in the campaign. When a game's major strength is combat, yes, this is a big deal.

UI complaint was always dumb. It's serviceable and readable. What more do you want?

I want an immersive UI that doesn't look like I'm navigating a tablet UI. It's certainly functional, yes. It was a little awkward here and there though. I didn't care for his work in the Endless games, and it's even more out of place here. It's not a huge deal, which is why I put it at the bottom of the list, but it's something that could use improvement.

 

[NJClaw]

There's also a whole load of user-made campaigns available, so when I'm done with all the official content and want more, it's there. This is great.

There's a piece of "official" content outside the three campaigns, in the form of custom modules made by Tactical Adventures to showcase the editor: Caer Falcarn, Dun Cuin.

Then you HAVE TO try Dragonstone Saga. It's incredibly short (just a quick dungeon, not a campaign), but it's a great example of what the game could be if it wasn't calibrated to normies' needs.

After that, I know I've said this more times than I can count, but it's just the truth: The Forsaken Isle (in its 6-man party version) should just come pre-installed with the base game.

 

[JarlFrank]

The terribly ugly UI is my main complaint with Solasta. Gameplay-wise, everything is fine. And some user modules apparently have more open world and map design, so the linearity isn't a problem inherent to the game, either.

Really the #1 wish I have for the sequel is to keep the editor. If the new and better engine means the editor won't be as powerful, then the sequel will be worse by default no matter what they improve.