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Solium Infernum remake

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
 

Beowulf

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Looks cartoony and a little far from what the original tried to convey with it's tone, but apart from the generic legion forces it doesn't look too bad.
The original was great, but apart from a small and active discord community it is hard to find players for this great title. If those Armello guys manage to make mp process smooth that will be a great step for Solium Infernum and Vic's game design legacy.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
The original was great, but apart from a small and active discord community it is hard to find players for this great title. If those Armello guys manage to make mp process smooth that will be a great step for Solium Infernum and Vic's game design legacy.
I'd also hope for some major balancing works (emissaries are worthless, there is not enough build variety if you are trying to make a good archfiend, lots of actions/rituals are too costly to ever be worthwhile, etc).
 

Norfleet

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It would be okay strategy game...but devs decided to use the crappiest system of them all - cards.
I actually tend to hate card games, but that is more an effect of the design choices, rather than the presentation. It's very easy to create both a game that plays like a card game without having visible cards, as well as a game that visibly resembles a card game but ultimately cannot actually be a card game, and merely visually presents as such.
 

Harthwain

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It would be okay strategy game...but devs decided to use the crappiest system of them all - cards.
But are these the actual cards or merely the in-game representations of something else? Because Shadow Empire uses cards to represent decisions/events. Similar thing goes for Battlestar Galactica (the boardgame). It just makes sense to represent boardgame actions with cards.

I love how the armies look, by the way. It's a great way to represent an army on the map.
 

manifest

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It would be okay strategy game...but devs decided to use the crappiest system of them all - cards.
image.png

If you're referring to this screen, those are spells. They are not discarded upon use. No excusing that shitty UI though. The Cryptic Comet version only uses cards for resource management. (Player events are drawn from a randomized pool, but you can only hold one or two at a time)
 

Dwarvophile

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Looks cartoony and a little far from what the original tried to convey with it's tone, but apart from the generic legion forces it doesn't look too bad.
The original was great, but apart from a small and active discord community it is hard to find players for this great title. If those Armello guys manage to make mp process smooth that will be a great step for Solium Infernum and Vic's game design legacy.

Yes, the art is ugly compared the original. I hope that the map will loop itself in every directions like in the original. That was a great feat.
 

Harthwain

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No excusing that shitty UI though.
Yes, the art is ugly compared the original.
Uh... I am looking at the screens, watching gameplays and reading After-Action-Reports and I don't feel like the old UI or art was as amazing as people in this thread make it sound.

It was simple (simplistic, even) and functional, probably because it was cheap and easy to make that way when it was all done by one guy, but that's about it. While I can agree that 3D models in the remake don't feel right (blocky and cartoony) and they could've achieved better results with animated 2D (and taken more inspiration from the original art), the fact is that the game was in need of some face-lifting.
 

Dwarvophile

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No excusing that shitty UI though.
Yes, the art is ugly compared the original.
Uh... I am looking at the screens, watching gameplays and reading After-Action-Reports and I don't feel like the old UI or art was as amazing as people in this thread make it sound.

It was simple (simplistic, even) and functional, probably because it was cheap and easy to make that way when it was all done by one guy, but that's about it. While I can agree that 3D models in the remake don't feel right (blocky and cartoony) and they could've achieved better results with animated 2D (and taken more inspiration from the original art), the fact is that the game was in need of some face-lifting.
I liked the illustrations, and the UI was minimalist but made with good taste.
 

manifest

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No excusing that shitty UI though.
Yes, the art is ugly compared the original.
Uh... I am looking at the screens, watching gameplays and reading After-Action-Reports and I don't feel like the old UI or art was as amazing as people in this thread make it sound.

It was simple (simplistic, even) and functional, probably because it was cheap and easy to make that way when it was all done by one guy, but that's about it. While I can agree that 3D models in the remake don't feel right (blocky and cartoony) and they could've achieved better results with animated 2D (and taken more inspiration from the original art), the fact is that the game was in need of some face-lifting.
The elements that were taken directly from the old UI (e.g. the symbols for your resources) look worse now, and the rest looks like Skyrim fucked Endless Legend. I guess it's too much to ask for a bunch of furry faggots to make a better game than one guy working in Adobe Air though.
 

Harthwain

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The elements that were taken directly from the old UI (e.g. the symbols for your resources) look worse now
Do they though?:

HVKcqlV.jpg
The way I am seeing it the symbols for resources are LITERALLY THE SAME and they have much better contrast (the background versus the icons themselves) making them easier to spot at a glance in the remake. The original UI is so heavily stylized (the flames, I guess?) that it's clutters the top bar and the symbols end up being a bit lost in the background, even at 1024x768.

Similar thing can be said about information on the cards:

HVKwyE7.jpg
The name of the card is clear, you get easy-to-spot requirements in the bottom and there are extra symbols in the corners of the card. Besides that you have information about what the ritual itself does, including per-level.

Contrast that with this:

HVKwVLB.jpg
You can see the description and the requirements, and that's pretty much it. I fail to see how this is supposed to be the superior version, compared to the remake.
 

Darth Roxor

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The original SI is infamous for how obscure its mechanics are, and even after a number of playthroughs some aspects of the gameplay can be obscure, so more player-friendly descriptions of everything would be pretty nice to have, but that can be achieved without shovelware-tier art direction.

Also if you want to put up Dark Augury, at least compare it with Dark Augury:

solium0137.jpg


The description is virtually the same. If anything it's actually clearer because "perks and secret objectives" tell me much more than "schemes and brands".

The original has very heavily stylised and distinct art direction. The remake looks like a dime a dozen mobile game.
 
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wtf is this. looks like soulless shit compared to the original. why cant we just get the original but with some kind of built in pbem system like what field of glory has
Yeah, exactly my first thought. I was hyped when I read the title but these graphics miss all the original, weird charme of the game.
 

Harthwain

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Also if you want to put up Dark Augury, at least compare it with Dark Augury:
I would if I could, but it was about the only thing I was able to find containing a ritual in a screenshot. The argument was that "the elements that were taken directly from the old UI (e.g. the symbols for your resources) look worse now" so decided that comparing the visuals between the two cards sharing the same category was an acceptable compromise.

The description is virtually the same. If anything it's actually clearer because "perks and secret objectives" tell me much more than "schemes and brands".
"Virtually the same"? That's not what I am seeing.

1) Visually the old version has the whole text pushed into a box, while the new one is a clear list in order. The latter makes information much easier to find. Granted, it is not like you need to find that info fast, but when we're talking about how the UI looks, being able to find information at a glance is how I determine which UI is better (which is the whole point of this exercise).

2) The old version is pretty ambiguous: it says "Basic stats". Does it mean all of them? The new version states the numbers precisely per level (one/two/three/four/all).

I don't play this game
I have no idea how to quote properly
I know? I am merely saying "the card", because it looks like one. That's pretty much it. Personally I have no problem with representing spells/rituals as such, because I am used to playing boardgames where a lot of stuff happens to be on cards for obvious reasons.
 

Narushima

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I guess it's fitting that the 3D models of those demons would be so soul-less... :negative:

The current era of cheap 3D games is perhaps even worse than early 3D. Those had at least some variety. Now, it's always the same smooth, bland models with animation straight from a low-tier TV cartoon show.
The original will always look better.
 

Harthwain

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Looks cartoony and a little far from what the original tried to convey with it's tone, but apart from the generic legion forces it doesn't look too bad.
I overlooked this at first, but then I checked out the legions and... I don't think they are generic.

wwTIyJZ.jpg

As you can see in the image, each legion has color of its owner (yellow/gold and red, respectively), a symbol (both above it and on their banners!) and what I assume to be a unique portrait that further helps to identify a specific legion. Besides that you can spot the Chosen wielding winged spears (both as army models AND on their army card!) whereas the opposing legion uses red axes (again, both as models and on their legion card!).

7aRPBZK.jpg

Here you can see round shields and what looks to be... maces? So, again, it is a very distinct look from the other two sides. The only question is whether each legion is unique or shares the same look per side. Given that each has its own portrait it does suggest legions being in fact unique, instead of generic blobs. Speaking of generic blobs, take a look at this:

OFWvaRU.jpg

The armies in the original are the very definition of "generic legion forces". Their only saving grace is they are distinct from armies of other players. But other than that they have nothing: no army value, no unique art, no portraits, nothing to distinguish them from one another by looking on the map. Even if the remake won't feature unique legion models per legion (it will certainly feature unique portraits though) it will without doubt be an incline from this.

Also, the borders. Holy crap, I can't tell you how glorious the new color-coded borders are, compared to old ones (which you can compare by looking on the same screenshot I provided). You can shit on the art direction and some of the changes, but so far I haven't seen anything to complain when it comes to the UI.

Edit:

I found out who the blue guys are: The Vile Apostates.



With stats at Ranged 0, Melee 0 and Infernal 8 I don't think maces and shields suit them, so we can reasonably expect armies to not have unique models per legion card. Another screenshot supports this conclusion:

FhvEpu3UAAATQoX

Thanks to much better quality you can see some of the yellow soldiers using swords while in the mix of winged spears. The yellow legion above the first is also wielding winged spears, meaning it's a different legion sharing the same model.

By the way, I found more art of legion cards (or portraits, whatever):

FjaLAFyVsAAPYmI

You can even recognize Ten Thousand Screaming Bastards by art alone (pretty sure it's them). The guys with two-handed axes (top-second row) are "Enslaved of Erzsebet". The 2D art for legions looks pretty good overall.
 
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Raghar

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I tried to murder all my opponents before I won, and I got victory before I finished last opponent.
 
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Harthwain

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Some more info I managed to steal from Discord. Brace yourselves:

Will there be avatar customization, either of attribute stats or even just name and form?

Right now, when you enter into Solium Infernum, you're presented with a steep, confusing learning curve. There are blocks of decisions to make that are hard to understand -- including making a character before you even know anything about the experience. So, we've taken inspiration from our work in character crafting with Armello, keeping roleplay at the heart of game design, and come up with what we believe is a great solution.

You will choose a pre-set Archfiend with their own unique ability, and some points already locked in place for their attributes. Then, you'll get the ability to assign perks from a flexible list, allowing you to customize your play style and strategies.

Others will also know which Archfiend you have chosen, which will help you generally strategize in the early game. However, we're aware of what impact that has on Prophecy and discovering secret information, and how important that is to the game. You don't want to lessen the impact of the Prophecy path. There are some factors to keep you on your toes - what perks do they have, and have they altered their starting stats?

Are Stats the Same as Original SI?

We've compressed them down to just having one set - your Powers. So Charisma + Wickedness are no more, but Wrath & Prophesy are used instead. This has simplified things nicely. So each Archfiend has a 'stat block' of Powers - Wrath, Deceit, Prophecy, Destruction and Charisma.

What's the biggest change from the OG Solium Infernum?

Most likely a large change is balancing how Tribute is acquired - the AF Powers have gone through an overhaul and Charisma is less of a must-have path to follow for success. If everyone HAD to take at least Charisma 3 to stand a chance, then it wasn't a play-style option. So there's been a fair amount of balancing out here and Charisma particularly reworked. We've also reworked objectives.

Outside of UI/UX I have a few pet peeves - Charisma tree being a must-have for success, Prophecy getting less accurate the better it gets - powers have had a big overhaul. Praetor combat was fun, but that system and interaction were clunky and we're reworking it.

More details to come later here. (edited)

Have there been changes to Combat from the Original SI?

Yes, there are some changes, there's been an obvious visual uplift because we're going to be seeing the battles occur on-screen. The 'unholy trinity' of Ranged, Melee, Infernal has been kept.

How much of the OG SI is still in the remake?

Most of original SI is there - no need to change what worked! It's more a matter of modernising and making the UX far smoother. We have a couple of new unit types on the map - some new 'neutrals' (think Heavenly Host) - and most excitingly TITANS - which are massive units that stomp around the map causing pure havoc. They're a sight to behold.

What “Hell” is this? Where does the inspiration come from?

Good question! Part of our appreciation of SI is the mythos around the 'fall'. As the line 'Better to rule in Hell' comes from Milton's Paradise Lost, that reference and story really resonated with us. So just as Vic's Hell wasn't just fire and brimstone, neither is ours, and we wanted to capture that strange desolated energy. So the Abyss is an ashen landscape that is infinite, a miserable place of shadows - furthest away from heaven, into which the unworthy are discarded. The artist Gustave Dore seemed to capture this so well with his illustrations of Paradise Lost. For lore, we do borrow from a number of sources, but it tends to borrow widely from things like the Ars Goetia and the Dictionary of Angels (Gustav Davidson).

Turn notifications for Steam/Discord/etc?

The transition from getting a message to being in-game taking your turn is something we want to make very smooth, so you can expect some integration here. Definitely Steam! We'll see what other opportunities arise.

Will you guys keep the option with the graphical interface to send "messages" like in the original, so my fellow daemons can receive scrolls of text with contract agreements and important messages in a cursive script, while in game?

Messages are part of the role-playing experience of SI, we personally love them and we see people get highly creative with them and it's wonderful. We do have to consider online safety and toxicity, and the way it can be abused. So we're putting together a plan around both of these competing points - more on this later.

There was a suggestion in the Suggestions channel for detailed, exportable turn logs to help those who want to create game diaries. Are you guys working on tools to help players tell their hellish stories?

SI tells amazing stories, it's a core strength of the game. So we do have discussions on this and ways of exporting or helping people to tell these stories. Right now our code team have done an amazing job of making sure everything in the game is logged and stored, and sifted through, so there's a lot of potential ways to use this data. No promises here yet, but more to come here as things solidify. (edited)

Titans have any gameplay distinctions from ordinary units, or is it more of a visual distinction? Interviews mention the Devourer being summoned ... but the Devourer was always a summonable unit. Are all Titans summonables now? (Also, can you give the names of any of the existing legions from Original that are being converted into Titans?)

Some old units or artifacts that are now titans include the Gorgons, Walking Fortress, Devourer and Sons of Typhon. (edited)
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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You will choose a pre-set Archfiend with their own unique ability, and some points already locked in place for their attributes. Then, you'll get the ability to assign perks from a flexible list, allowing you to customize your play style and strategies.

Others will also know which Archfiend you have chosen, which will help you generally strategize in the early game. However, we're aware of what impact that has on Prophecy and discovering secret information, and how important that is to the game. You don't want to lessen the impact of the Prophecy path. There are some factors to keep you on your toes - what perks do they have, and have they altered their starting stats?

Hahahahahahahahaha

Into the trash it goes.


Seriously, what the fuck. Anything that reduces the paranoia factor of this game is antithetical to its most basic principles. Imagine knowing from the get-go that one of these assholes started with 3 deceit.

What's wrong with just leaving the option for full customisation open????
 
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